Cautionary tale - just a little bit should be fine.....

LittleGreyCat · Apr 5, 2018

I haven't been testing recently, and I have been indulging a little.

For example, I have had the occasional apple and orange, I've pinched a couple of slices of artisan bread from herself to make a cheese toasty (thin bread, thick cheese) and had a few reasonably low carb curries on offer at M&S and Waitrose. Baked beans from time to time (half a tin at 26 grams carbohydrate).

The main culprit I think was the French and Belgian beers from Lidl. As with most Lidl things you get one chance to buy or you wait for 3 months until it comes past again. So there is a rack of lovely tempting beer and one won't do any harm, will it?

Looking it up online a 330 ml bottle of Leffe has 17 grams of carbohydrate, so sharing a 750 ml bottle won't be that bad. A full bottle is about 38.6 grams of carbohydrate. Hmmm....looking a bit more.....

So it looks as though I have probably been having around 100 grams of carbohydrate some days. Still not enough (perhaps) to take me out of fat burning but not ideal.

Anyway, 6 monthly blood test coming up and I noticed that my weight had started climbing over the last couple of weeks. It had been drifting very slowly but I hit between 12 stone 6 and 12 stone 7 when I should be below 12 stone. Hmmm....time to think about this.

Tested my fasting blood glucose and it was 9.5. Bullet resistant coffee and 2.5 hours later it was 9.6.
Off food and especially booze.
Had a very, very light lunch (visiting friends) and by evening it was back down to 5.6.
Had three small bits of cheddar for tea wrapped in 3 small slices of salami for tea.
Next morning fasting was 6.8 and 2 hours after BRC it was 7.6.
After a 4 mile walk it had come down to 5.7.
This morning my fasting BG was 5.3.

More interestingly I had also noticed that my tightest hole on my belt wouldn't buckle any more. On hole -1. So the extra weight seems to have gone straight on my waist. Tested again this morning (belt was with other trousers) and I can fit tightest hole on the belt with a bit to spare. So two days of no booze and virtually no carbohydrates has taken the pod off my waist and taken my BG down as well.

I am going to stick with it for a while to try and get down below the dreaded 12 stone again but I suspect the results from my blood test this Friday will not make happy reading.

According to Professor Roy Taylor who I met recently at a conference the aim for a healthy pancreas should be to be the same weight and waist measurement that you were at 20 (or it could be 21?). Although I can't be certain, for me (going on details up to 17 years old) that should be 11 stone 7 lbs and a trouser waist of 32". Noting that trouser waists tend to be quoted a little lower than your real waist. 34" trousers are a fit with my 35" waist. So this is still my target. Nearest I've got in weight is 11 stone 10 lbs. Noting that if I mention to friends that I need to lose a bit of weight I get the "surely not" response. I don't think I look skinny, but everyone else obviously does.

This is a cautionary tale that if you don't test at least once a month and you become complacent about your weight slowly rising then you could be in for an unpleasant shock. My readings at the beginning of March look fine.

I am still amazed, though, at the speed at which my waist came back down in size in only two days.

The test now is how long I can go with no alcohol and no treats at all. Previously I have found that one week is no problem, but as I get towards the end of week 2 I start to waver, mainly through boredom at not eating very much and not having a nice pint of bitter in the sunshine. Unexpected stress doesn't help, either, as a little drink does have a calming influence. So hope for a month of nice weather and nothing unexpected.

Guzzler · Apr 5, 2018

Aye, Carb Creep and Complacency can result in Curves.

LooperCat · Apr 5, 2018

I was massively overweight at 20, about three stone more than I am now at 43. Should I aim for that?

Bluetit1802 · Apr 5, 2018

Oh yes, testing keeps us on our toes even after years of being "in remission". For me, stopping testing would be a slippery slope to disaster. When I get fed up of it I slap on a Libre sensor so I can have a rest for a couple of weeks.

Best of luck with your blood tests @LittleGreyCat

britishpub · Apr 5, 2018

I sometimes wonder why I test, but this puts it in perspective.

It is no point working hard to try and resolve the issue, only to let it come back by not keeping an eye on things.

SueJB · Apr 5, 2018

LittleGreyCat said:
I haven't been testing recently, and I have been indulging a little.

For example, I have had the occasional apple and orange, I've pinched a couple of slices of artisan bread from herself to make a cheese toasty (thin bread, thick cheese) and had a few reasonably low carb curries on offer at M&S and Waitrose. Baked beans from time to time (half a tin at 26 grams carbohydrate).

The main culprit I think was the French and Belgian beers from Lidl. As with most Lidl things you get one chance to buy or you wait for 3 months until it comes past again. So there is a rack of lovely tempting beer and one won't do any harm, will it?

Looking it up online a 330 ml bottle of Leffe has 17 grams of carbohydrate, so sharing a 750 ml bottle won't be that bad. A full bottle is about 38.6 grams of carbohydrate. Hmmm....looking a bit more.....

So it looks as though I have probably been having around 100 grams of carbohydrate some days. Still not enough (perhaps) to take me out of fat burning but not ideal.

Anyway, 6 monthly blood test coming up and I noticed that my weight had started climbing over the last couple of weeks. It had been drifting very slowly but I hit between 12 stone 6 and 12 stone 7 when I should be below 12 stone. Hmmm....time to think about this.

Tested my fasting blood glucose and it was 9.5. Bullet resistant coffee and 2.5 hours later it was 9.6.
Off food and especially booze.
Had a very, very light lunch (visiting friends) and by evening it was back down to 5.6.
Had three small bits of cheddar for tea wrapped in 3 small slices of salami for tea.
Next morning fasting was 6.8 and 2 hours after BRC it was 7.6.
After a 4 mile walk it had come down to 5.7.
This morning my fasting BG was 5.3.

More interestingly I had also noticed that my tightest hole on my belt wouldn't buckle any more. On hole -1. So the extra weight seems to have gone straight on my waist. Tested again this morning (belt was with other trousers) and I can fit tightest hole on the belt with a bit to spare. So two days of no booze and virtually no carbohydrates has taken the pod off my waist and taken my BG down as well.

I am going to stick with it for a while to try and get down below the dreaded 12 stone again but I suspect the results from my blood test this Friday will not make happy reading.

According to Professor Roy Taylor who I met recently at a conference the aim for a healthy pancreas should be to be the same weight and waist measurement that you were at 20 (or it could be 21?). Although I can't be certain, for me (going on details up to 17 years old) that should be 11 stone 7 lbs and a trouser waist of 32". Noting that trouser waists tend to be quoted a little lower than your real waist. 34" trousers are a fit with my 35" waist. So this is still my target. Nearest I've got in weight is 11 stone 10 lbs. Noting that if I mention to friends that I need to lose a bit of weight I get the "surely not" response. I don't think I look skinny, but everyone else obviously does.

This is a cautionary tale that if you don't test at least once a month and you become complacent about your weight slowly rising then you could be in for an unpleasant shock. My readings at the beginning of March look fine.

I am still amazed, though, at the speed at which my waist came back down in size in only two days.

The test now is how long I can go with no alcohol and no treats at all. Previously I have found that one week is no problem, but as I get towards the end of week 2 I start to waver, mainly through boredom at not eating very much and not having a nice pint of bitter in the sunshine. Unexpected stress doesn't help, either, as a little drink does have a calming influence. So hope for a month of nice weather and nothing unexpected.

I love your honesty and what you say is a good boost so thanks. I don't do beer but would love to go and have the cider that's in the pantry. What you say about weight and waist would make me skeletal, it was when I got to 50k I went to the vet's and was diagnosed T1. It makes me feel lucky in a weird sort of way that I have to test 4 times a day. As @Guzzler rightly says "Carb Creep and Complacency can result in Curves" but some curves are bigger and badder than others.

rab5 · Apr 5, 2018

cheers for that..... good to know... it appears it doesnt take long to get wrecked lol

Tabbyjoolz · Apr 5, 2018

@Mel dCP - I was the opposite - almost two stone underweight when I was 20 or 21. To aim for the waist size I had then would be unrealistic, not to mention unhealthy.

Of course, I put on weight very quickly once I adopted that new-fangled high-carb, low-carb diet that started doing the rounds when I was in my 20s. I continued to pile it on over the years (apart from short stints at Weight\Watchers, Slimming World etc. where I got marginally thinner and a lot more miserable) until diagnosis and adoption of LCHF.

I'm now overweight rather than obese and could do with losing another stone, but this is where my weight sweet spot seems to be as it's fluctuated very little.

caroline_92 · Apr 5, 2018

I am a big fan of your waist should be no more than half your height as a good rule of thumb. So me being short means no more than 32”.

LittleGreyCat · Apr 5, 2018

caroline_92 said:
I am a big fan of your waist should be no more than half your height as a good rule of thumb. So me being short means no more than 32”.

At 72" tall (on a good day) I should be 36" or less.

However bear in mind that the number is a MAXIMUM before you start to have increased risk. So a few inches less is more likely to do good than harm.
Much the same as being at the very top of "normal" BMI. Middle of the range is a lot safer in general. Certainly looks as though it is for me. However looking at the NHS BMI calculator it seems that 11 stone 4 lbs is about mid point for me, and I would have to get down to 9 stone 12 lbs before I am near the bottom of the "normal" range. That is scary, even though I am now skinny over most of my body I'm not sure where I could trim off another 2 stone without major surgery. Then again I've seen 14 stone people say much the same.

AdamJames · Apr 5, 2018

LittleGreyCat said:
I haven't been testing recently, and I have been indulging a little.

For example, I have had the occasional apple and orange, I've pinched a couple of slices of artisan bread from herself to make a cheese toasty (thin bread, thick cheese) and had a few reasonably low carb curries on offer at M&S and Waitrose. Baked beans from time to time (half a tin at 26 grams carbohydrate).

The main culprit I think was the French and Belgian beers from Lidl. As with most Lidl things you get one chance to buy or you wait for 3 months until it comes past again. So there is a rack of lovely tempting beer and one won't do any harm, will it?

Looking it up online a 330 ml bottle of Leffe has 17 grams of carbohydrate, so sharing a 750 ml bottle won't be that bad. A full bottle is about 38.6 grams of carbohydrate. Hmmm....looking a bit more.....

So it looks as though I have probably been having around 100 grams of carbohydrate some days. Still not enough (perhaps) to take me out of fat burning but not ideal.

Anyway, 6 monthly blood test coming up and I noticed that my weight had started climbing over the last couple of weeks. It had been drifting very slowly but I hit between 12 stone 6 and 12 stone 7 when I should be below 12 stone. Hmmm....time to think about this.

Tested my fasting blood glucose and it was 9.5. Bullet resistant coffee and 2.5 hours later it was 9.6.
Off food and especially booze.
Had a very, very light lunch (visiting friends) and by evening it was back down to 5.6.
Had three small bits of cheddar for tea wrapped in 3 small slices of salami for tea.
Next morning fasting was 6.8 and 2 hours after BRC it was 7.6.
After a 4 mile walk it had come down to 5.7.
This morning my fasting BG was 5.3.

More interestingly I had also noticed that my tightest hole on my belt wouldn't buckle any more. On hole -1. So the extra weight seems to have gone straight on my waist. Tested again this morning (belt was with other trousers) and I can fit tightest hole on the belt with a bit to spare. So two days of no booze and virtually no carbohydrates has taken the pod off my waist and taken my BG down as well.

I am going to stick with it for a while to try and get down below the dreaded 12 stone again but I suspect the results from my blood test this Friday will not make happy reading.

According to Professor Roy Taylor who I met recently at a conference the aim for a healthy pancreas should be to be the same weight and waist measurement that you were at 20 (or it could be 21?). Although I can't be certain, for me (going on details up to 17 years old) that should be 11 stone 7 lbs and a trouser waist of 32". Noting that trouser waists tend to be quoted a little lower than your real waist. 34" trousers are a fit with my 35" waist. So this is still my target. Nearest I've got in weight is 11 stone 10 lbs. Noting that if I mention to friends that I need to lose a bit of weight I get the "surely not" response. I don't think I look skinny, but everyone else obviously does.

This is a cautionary tale that if you don't test at least once a month and you become complacent about your weight slowly rising then you could be in for an unpleasant shock. My readings at the beginning of March look fine.

I am still amazed, though, at the speed at which my waist came back down in size in only two days.

The test now is how long I can go with no alcohol and no treats at all. Previously I have found that one week is no problem, but as I get towards the end of week 2 I start to waver, mainly through boredom at not eating very much and not having a nice pint of bitter in the sunshine. Unexpected stress doesn't help, either, as a little drink does have a calming influence. So hope for a month of nice weather and nothing unexpected.

Interesting ideas about a weight / waist measurement to aim for. I've been thinking about this myself recently. Questions like: "If weight loss can help unclog a pancreas, at what point do I stop and say I've given it my best shot"?

I know one's body changes shape as one ages, but regardless, the best reference point I can remember in life when I felt very fit, and when I knew what I weighed, was actually at about 20 years old. I remember being approximately 12 stone and a 32-34 inch waist. I've been thinking I should try to get down to those stats again, if possible.

Also, I suspect I've progressed in a very typical way, pretty much constantly expanding as I've aged, so while I take Roy Taylor's numbers with a massive bucket of salt, for the reasons @Mel dCP implies(!), it looks like I'm thinking along the right lines anyway.

LooperCat · Apr 5, 2018

I’m a shade under six foot, so 71 1/2” - I wonder if the same suggested ratio applies to tall birds like me?

LittleGreyCat · Apr 5, 2018

Mel dCP said:
I’m a shade under six foot, so 71 1/2” - I wonder if the same suggested ratio applies to tall birds like me?

I haven't seen it differentiated between men and women, but I get the impression that women may have slimmer waists than men in teens and early twenties.

Now off down a blind alley of research which led me to the Wikipedia page on female body shape, which seems to be illustrated by a number of tasteful paintings of ladies with no clothes on.

Basically says that there are at least four body types, including hour glass with a very slim waist.

I think the Sun used to quote statistics such as 38 24 36 for the Page 3 girls (must be about 50 years ago since I last read it; summer job on a building site). If those were in any way accurate then unless the ladies were four foot tall they were well below the half their height guide.

I suppose despite the different musculature the same risk factor point may apply for men and women if their waist is over a certain size.

So to answer your question, I think it does apply whatever your height. Like BMI it will be an average and there will be outliers but at least it will be an indication of potential risk.

LittleGreyCat · Apr 7, 2018

Just updating to say that I have now lost the easy 4 lbs and the hard struggle begins.
For the first time I had my Bullet Resistant Coffee and was still hungry afterwards.
I had a couple of slices of ham wrapped around some cheese for lunch. Still starving.

I will hold out until after F1 qualifying before I have my main meal, but if this is the way it goes I may switch my main meal to lunch time and see if it staves off the cravings for the rest of the day.

It does lend weight to my theory that the first few days are easy because you are still burning your way through your glucose store, and the real hunger kicks in when that has been used up.

If I am still struggling after another few days (depending on how the weight is coming off) I may declare a day of indulgence. I've tried 5:2 before and it hasn't worked for me. I am now wondering if 2:5 (or 1:6) might work. Same principle of coming off the reduced calorie diet, but only for one or two days a week. As far as I can tell, 5 days of "eating what I like" is unlikely to be countered by 2 days of minimal eating. My body can store fat like it is going out of fashion.

Brunneria · Apr 7, 2018

Mel dCP said:
I was massively overweight at 20, about three stone more than I am now at 43. Should I aim for that?

Me too. Although I have a bit more to lose to get to my 20yr old weight.
Taylor’s generalisations have never seemed to apply to me.

Brunneria · Apr 7, 2018

LittleGreyCat said:
I'm not sure where I could trim off another 2 stone without major surgery. Then again I've seen 14 stone people say much the same.

Before i knew him, in his 20s, Mr B went through a fit and lean phase. Family members remember it with concern. They all thought he was ill. Drawn, scrawny and FAR too thin - at 13 and a half stone.

We all vary so much!

lindijanice · Apr 7, 2018

SueJB said:
I love your honesty and what you say is a good boost so thanks. I don't do beer but would love to go and have the cider that's in the pantry. What you say about weight and waist would make me skeletal, it was when I got to 50k I went to the vet's and was diagnosed T1. It makes me feel lucky in a weird sort of way that I have to test 4 times a day. As @Guzzler rightly says "Carb Creep and Complacency can result in Curves" but some curves are bigger and badder than others.

Maybe it's a typo, but you went to the VET and got diagnosed??!! A vet here in Canada is an animal doctor

SueJB · Apr 8, 2018

lindijanice said:
Maybe it's a typo, but you went to the VET and got diagnosed??!! A vet here in Canada is an animal doctor

Sorry, that's my very silly sense of familial British humour. Not a typo, In our family my brother used to refer to the doctor as "the vet" so it stuck with me.

Brunneria · Apr 8, 2018

SueJB said:
Sorry, that's my very silly sense of familial British humour. Not a typo, In our family my brother used to refer to the doctor as "the vet" so it stuck with me.

We do exactly the same! Sometimes I type ‘vet’ on the forum. When I mean ‘doc’ .

Pinkorchid · Apr 8, 2018

At 20 when I got married I had a 23in waist and was about 8st 3 lb and a dress size 10 and remained at that give or take a lb or two most of my adult life. The only time I was bigger was when I was pregnant each time with my three children but never went above 10st even then..I did loose some weight when I started to lower my carbs after the T2 diagnosis. Now at the age of almost 79 I am just over 8st and still a size 10

Cautionary tale - just a little bit should be fine.....

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