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Cholesterol conundrum

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by volorg, Jun 19, 2014.

  1. volorg

    volorg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi I have just come back from my annual check up. Good news on my sugar down to 47 (6.4) from 52 (6.9) in January 2014. The doctor asked what I was doing so I said LCHF. She immediately jumped to my cholesterol which has gone up to 7.4. HDL is 1.4, LDL 6 and triglycerides 0.8.

    We had the same statin conversation that we always has - she says take them, I say no - and I said I thought it was the ratio of HDL to triglycerides that was important. She said no.

    Anyhoo, I have just been looking at the ratios online and I am a bit confused. Some sites say it is the LDL to HDL ratio which is important - at more than 5 mine is considered high risk. Other sites state that it is the HDL to triglyceride ratio which is important - at 0.5 mine is good to excellent!!!

    So who is right!
     
  2. Charles Robin

    Charles Robin Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I am no expert, but I think that getting LDL down is important to good health. Are you exercising at the moment? I started LCHF in January. Up until then I exercised regularly, but a busy work schedule stopped me finding time for it. Had my diabetic clinic almost two weeks ago, and the results were similar to yours. Excellent HBA1C, but LDL cholesterol had risen from 1.5 to 2.5, my highest level on record. So now I have forced exercise back into my regime. I'm actually sitting in a cafe typing this after cycling 17.5 miles, with another 17.5 miles required to get home. I'm hoping this will bring LDL down again by my next clinic, may work for you too.
     
  3. volorg

    volorg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow that was me 20 years ago! Pretty sedentary at the moment - I am planning to start swimming again soon to help with this.
     
  4. gfmoore

    gfmoore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it (which I may not!) there are two basic types of LDL anyway, the large fluffy snowflake type and the small hard as hail type. The hail type is the bad boy cause it's sticky and causes build up on the walls of blood vessels. The fluffy snowflake type is lovely - allegedly.

    I don't think the test differentiates between the two.

    LCHF diet is supposed to give you fluffy snowflake type - but how does one know?

    Anyone got any ideas as to how to get LDL cholesterol down without statins anyway?
     
  5. jack412

    jack412 Type 2 · Expert

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    get on google 'they' are now actually saying it's some inflammation that statin treats is more important and that can be done with low levels

    my dads 92 and he's been taking statins since Jesus was a boy. you have good tri and hdl, high LDL ..I went onto statins and mine went to 2,7 so I had to reduce dose
    do more research on your LDL and make an informed decision you can live with
     
  6. volorg

    volorg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just re-watched the Cereal killers movie and the extras available on his website (www.cerealkillersmove.com) and there is a short film of a doctor breaking down Donal's blood results, specifically cholesterol. Donal's LDL was 4.6, his HDL was 2.5 and his triglycerides were 0.5. The doctor basically said that because his triglycerides were so low, this was a good indication that the size of the LDL particles in the blood were big rather than small. This is a newish theory on cholesterol, that it is the size of the particle that is an indicator of whether you are at high risk of a heart attack. That information has helped a lot. Basically, although my HDL/triglyceride levels are not as good as Donal's were, there are still considered good in terms of risk factors. So I am gonna stop worrying and keep on keeping on with LCHF.
     
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  7. Jill the tt

    Jill the tt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    i watched it to very interesting, i notice the link you put wont work try this one, just checked it, this is only free to watch until the 4th July

    http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...gn=20140628Z2&et_cid=DM47071&et_rid=567235628
     
  8. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    I think that most doctors use the total cholesterol:HDLratio http://www.patient.co.uk/health/cholesterol
    The article talks about conventional ways to lower cholesterol.



    You find a lot of people on the net writing about large fluffy particles being OK however it is some years since a big trial looked at the size of particles found there was 'no association between LDL size and atherosclerosis after accounting for the concentrations of the two subclasses' http://www.athero.org/commentaries/comm564.pdf This explains why they believe the idea was wrong and due to the method of measurement; it is quite technical


    If by any chance you have been eating a very low carb diet you may find it useful to read this recent blog.
    This is from a dietitian who favours low carb diets but has seen her cholesterol levels rise, she has modified her diet (it is still low carb) and she has seen improvements (her 300mg/dl total cholesterol equates to about 7.7mmol/l).
    The comments are varied and worth reading.
    http://www.lowcarbdietitian.com/blog

    She links to Daysprings article who writes about a patient with a similar experience, you can actually get hold of it without signing in here: https://www.lecturepad.org/dayspring/lipidaholics/pdf/LipidaholicsCase291.pdf

    Edit put in omitted blog url. This is probably the best thing to read if you find the other links too technical. They are there as references
    edit 2 for error..
     
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    #8 phoenix, Jun 30, 2014 at 3:25 PM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2014
  9. dawnmc

    dawnmc Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    How complicated is that, I'm no scientist and cant make head nor tail of it.
     
  10. Jill the tt

    Jill the tt Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    every where are contradictions, statins are getting such a bad press, then so much reserch is backed by the pharmaceuticals and food growers, it makes it hard to make an informed choice, i could very easy have a problem with eating anything. the more i read the more i get in a twirl
     
  11. volorg

    volorg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks to you all for your replies. I think that this is a case of let the scientists fight it out cos they are still not sure about this. It is interesting that in the film Donal is told that he has a high inflammation level which appears to be the source of the risk for future diabetes/heart problems. So, how do we reduce our inflammation levels? Meditation? Magnesium? More sex please? ...
     
  12. gfmoore

    gfmoore Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The issue with cholesterol is the assumption! that it has anything to do with atherosclerosis anyway. If it doesn't then whether it is fluffy or small won't matter.

    Cholesterol the big con has a good section about how atherosclerosis might work and I'll try and summarise it after the Germany v Algeria game which has been very good.
     
  13. * spoiler alert* I thought that right at the end of the film Donal was told he had no inflammation. Maybe I have to watch it again.
     
  14. tonyS54

    tonyS54 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That should be TC/HDL ratio.

    Don't think the patient.co.uk conventional way to lower cholesterol is very diabetic friendly well not for this type two anyway.

    • AT LEAST five portions, or ideally 7-9 portions, of a variety of fruit and vegetables per day.
    • A THIRD OF MOST MEALS should be starch-based foods (such as cereals, wholegrain bread, potatoes, rice, pasta), plus fruit and vegetables.
    • NOT MUCH fatty food such as fatty meats, cheeses, full-cream milk, fried food, butter, etc. Use low-fat, mono-unsaturated or polyunsaturated spreads.
    • INCLUDE 2-3 portions of fish per week - at least one of which should be oily (but if you are pregnant you should not have more than two portions of oily fish a week).
    • LIMIT SALT to no more than 6 g a day (and less for children).
    • If you eat meat, it is best to EAT LEAN MEAT, or poultry such as chicken.
    • If you do fry, choose a VEGETABLE OIL, such as sunflower, rapeseed or olive.
    http://www.patient.co.uk/health/cholesterol
     
  15. volorg

    volorg Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    At the start he is told he has high markers for inflammation - that had changed dramatically by the end!
     
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