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Completely All Over the Place!

O

OmJuice

Member
Messages
10
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Hi all, I'm new here...

My husband's doctor says he has diabetes. We're a little unsure at the moment because the new medication that my husband is on for his BP has a (very rare) side effect of hyperglycemia. His symptoms started the day after he began the medication and got worse over the course of a week, but when we suggested to the doctor that the BP meds were possibly causing side effects he became aggressive in his attitude, so much so that I actually cried


Anyway, I digress (sorry, just, you know when telling your story makes you feel better lol
). So at the surgery on Thursday my husband's blood glucose level was 27.1. The doctor sent us away with the instruction to cut out sugar. My husband has done this and is starting to feel better and his blurred vision has improved.
We bought a glucose monitor and used it for the first time this morning (Saturday) before breakfast, and his reading was 16.2. He had a cheese and onion omelette and a peppermint tea for breakfast and 2 hours later his reading was 14.1!

So, what does this mean? Surely the post-breakfast reading should have been higher than the first one?

Also, if anyone has any experience with the BP medication Amlodipine having any affect on the BG levels, please share!

Sorry this post is all over the place! We're both just trying to work out what's going on so we can go to the doctor on Wednesday with as much information as possible, because we felt a bit like we couldn't discuss it properly with our little knowledge on the subject, amd especially with the doctor's attitude.

I'm due to give birth in 2 weeks time, so I need my husband as well as he can be as soon as possible! So any advice, experience or anything will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance!
 
Hello omjuice, 1st allow me to request the info pack for new posters
@daisy1.
Will be along shortly, your husbands figures sound like he's t2 ,sure your gp will confirm this.
In the meantime have a good read of the info from daisy and then come back with your q's.clive
 
Hello and welcome @OmJuice . I'm sorry to hear that you are having such a tough time. There really is no need for Doctors, or anybody else to be rude and aggressive. It really doesn't help. Have a read on the food and nutrition section on the website. Many people find a low carb diet helps to control blood sugars. As Clive has said any questions and somebody will help with an answer. Take care.
 
Sorry, like I said, my post is all over the place! It was more of a vent than a question :/
Thank you for your replies!

He's just done another test and the number was 13.4, so it's still dropping despite eating and drinking. So this has to be a good thing? Surely it's odd though and should have gone up after breakfast?
 
Hi @OmJuice,
I read it that his reading after breakfast went down showing that the meal he ate was ideal for a diabetic?
 
Hello @OmJuice .As your partner has recently been put on blood pressure medication could I also mention that stress effects your blood sugar too. I take amlodipine too but everybody is different in their reactions. Have you had a read of the food and nutrition threads and thought about your meals? What did the doctor sugges about food and diet?
 
Please be aware that I'm not a doctor, or medically qualified in any way to give advice. But I am a long term T2 with high blood pressure that has been treated for all my adult life.

I'm sorry to hear of the upset that this is causing you at such an important time, but getting stressed about it at the moment (I know, easier said than done) won't help either of you - so please try not to worry about it until you have a definitive answer - if he's already getting an improvement in his numbers, you're moving in the right direction, regardless of the cause. Worrying about it can potentially raise BG numbers even higher and won't be good for you or the bub either.

It is my experience that most BP meds state something in the patient information about the possibility that the med might raise blood sugar - it's inevitable by the way BP meds work to change the concentration and fluidity of your blood - some will end up changing the concentration of your blood, so this is likely to have a potential impact on the concentration of glucose being carried by it when measured.

I had a look at the patient information for the med you named and it states that it may very rarely raise blood glucose levels, not cause hyperglycaemia - and I know that the med I'm on says the same. I've discussed this with my medics and it was their opinion that it probably does raise it a smidge (for the reasons stated above) - but probably less than the margin of error in my meter, so not enough to be of concern or to change the way we manage my diabetes - or to change the med which otherwise works well for me.

There is however one very simple blood test that can answer it explicitly - you say you're going back to the docs on Wednesday - did he do some blood tests when you were there which he'll have the results for when you return? In which case, I would guess that one of the tests done is what is called an HbA1c test - this measures the glucose in the blood - but it differs from your finger prick test in that this measures the glucose carried on the red blood cells. As blood cells live for many weeks, a sample of venous whole blood contains a range of ages of cells at any one time, so this test gives a good average measure of blood glucose for the last 3 months-ish. So it gives rise to a sort of average for that time period.

It sounds like he has only been on the med for a short time, so the HbA1c test will be definitive if his blood glucose was high before he started on the new tablets. Hopefully the doc has already done this and you'll get a proper answer on Wednesday. Many BP meds say not to stop them without medical supervision, so please keep them going until you've had that conversation.
 
Indeed, I guess the important thing right now is that the glucose level is decreasing, what ever the cause. I should focus on that more. I think I'm just a bit of a problem solver, so if there's something I can't get my head around, I have to try a figure out how and why and everything in between, haha!

The doctor (well he got the nurse to do it) did take some blood on Thursday but neither of us can remember what it was for. The whole visit to the surgery was a bit overwhelming for both of us :/

The NHS website pointed me to a website called medicines.org.uk, where I searched for Amlodipine and got my info from here: http://www.medicines.org.uk/emcmobile/medicine/24888#UNDESIRABLE_EFFECTS
I checked some other places too, which all said similar, but trusted that this source was reliable if the NHS website pointed me to it. I can't remember if the leaflet stated hyperglycemia, or just raised blood sugar, so I'll have a look.

Up until Thursday when we saw the doc, my husband's diet was pretty much a diabetic's nightmare! So it makes sense that his BG level has come down. But I just thought that anything you eat would cause a spike, even if just a small one, which is why I was confused about the drop after breakfast. But if that just means he's eating good things, then great!!

Heading over to the nutrition threads for a nosey now

Thanks again everyone for your input, we're learning a lot and it's definitely making me feel calmer and my husband feel more positive about the whole situation
 
Hi and welcome,

Are you just testing randomly, first thing in the morning and any other old time you think about it? This isn't the way to go. He needs to test immediately before he eats and 2 hours after first bite, then look at the difference, which will show you what that food did to his blood glucose levels. This is the best way to learn which foods he can cope with, and which he can't. He needs to keep a food diary and record his levels along side. After a while, patterns will emerge. The higher the post meal spike, the more that meal needs to be tweaked (either by cutting out the carbs or reducing the portion sizes) It is all trial and error, experimentation, and patience.

Your query as to why his levels dropped after eating breakfast could be down to several things, such as what he ate and what he did in the time between eating and testing. It could also be down to what we call Dawn Phenomenon. If you do a search in the search box you will find MANY threads abut this. It is often called a liver dump. It is when your liver releases natural glucose into the blood stream in times of what it perceives as starvation, fear, anxiety, stress or illness. It helps keeps us alive sometimes. It can also be caused by exercise. It isn't unusual to see reduced levels after breakfast.

Good to see he has cut out sugar, but what about other carbs? They all convert to glucose once inside the system, so it is wise to keep the amounts down. Bread, potato, rice, pasta, cereals, flour, are the worst offenders. Testing them is the only way to see if he can manage some, all, or none of them. We all react differently. Only his meter will tell him.

Have a look at this thread for low carb beginners. It may help you. http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/a-new-low-carb-guide-for-beginners.68695/

Good luck to him, and to you and your forthcoming baby.
 
OmJuice said:
The whole visit to the surgery was a bit overwhelming for both of us :/
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I can imagine and when it's like that, you don't take anything in until you try and recall what was said later and realise that you weren't really paying attention as your head was still reeling from the first bits of information. When I was diagnosed - a long time ago now - I was so poorly at the time with non-diabetes obvious symptoms, my reaction at the time as "thank goodness, is that all" as many of my family are diabetic and I knew it was probably inevitable. I was happy that was all it was. I didn't eat bread or potato that weekend and was like a new person by Monday - so it felt like a good result for me, at the time. But I can imagine how it must be a shock if you weren't expecting it.

Funny, I looked at the same web site. I searched for the patient information leaflet and got a pdf of the actual leaflet - you should have a paper one in the pack of meds. The site you linked to does quite clearly say:
Metabolism and nutrition disorders - Very Rare - Hyperglycaemia

Where the pdf on the same site rather downplays it in comparison, as Metabolism disorders - Very rare: increase of the blood sugar: https://www.medicines.org.uk/emc/PIL.28519.latest.pdf

Food would ordinarily cause a rise in BG, but if his was already very high and he ate a low carb meal, then he'd be using up the glucose already in his blood faster than he was replenishing it with food. In a morning our BG is often raised in anticipation of the day ahead in something called the dawn phenomena. I tend to be high when I get up, lower pre-breakfast and sometimes lower still after breakfast as my body settles down.

He had eggs and cheese - high protein/low carb foods, so there was little to raise his BG in the short term, but you might find it would go up a smidge later as protein works like slow release carbs, it will raise BG too. Keep your eye on onions, it's one of those weird foods that can have a pronounced affect on blood issues - both BP and BG. I had a friend with hypertension who could not tolerate onion in any amount, it would cause her BP to rise to danger levels and some diabetics have similar BG reactions too.

OmJuice said:
we're learning a lot and it's definitely making me feel calmer and my husband feel more positive about the whole situation
Click to expand...
I know that it must be a period of uncertainty and very poor timing for you both, but you're doing all the right things and getting to understand it and addressing it face on can make such a difference to the future outcomes. You've already seen in a short time how making some changes can really impact on his well-being. He needs to be in good shape for your little one arriving and he's already made those first difficult steps to making a huge difference - he must feel encouraged by the improvements already.
 
Everything is making more and more sense the more I read, so thank you so much!!

I really hope the blood that was taken is the test you mentioned! If not then we'll asks for it.

The info about the BP meds is starting to look a bit sketchy now, so who knows :/ the bloods will answer that anyway, so we'll see.

Very interesting about the onions. My husband has been severely hypertensive for years (this morning's reading was 203/118) but because he had no symptoms (as is common with high BP) he's been in denial. He hasn't given meds a fair chance in the past, so this is his first proper experience with them. But he's a massive lover of onions!! So it will be interesting to see if taking those away will help.

Last week he could barely stay awake in the day, couldn't sleep at night because of the thirst and constant eeing and his vision was really bad. We just thought these were all side effects of the Amlodipine. I feel silly now, as I knew these were all diabetes symptoms.
Anyway, he's feeling so much better now, and I'm hoping he'll be able to see well enough to drive me to hospital when I'm in labour!!
 
I agree completely with everything said by @Bluetit1802. I would add that I have been on 10mg Amplodipine since a transplant over a year ago and Type 2 for just under a year...BUT...the BP meds didn't cause my BS to rise...a steroid did. In fact, the docs changed my BP med because it was far less likely to increase my BS! Is your husband on any other meds..or was he on any steroids? Does he have any other medical condition? My initial levels were over 20.0mmols, and now that I am on a strict low carb diet (still on Amplodipine but on much lower dose of the steroid)levels are all under 8.0 and usually less than 7. I think one after breakfast reading on its own (at an early stage) tells you nothing...it's the patterns that inform you, hence the need to keep a diary (recording food, time, pre and post meal readings). Sounds to me like he is doing brilliantly - so well done...tell him it takes a wee bit of time, the "secret" is being in control. It's impossible to avoid stress but he should factor it is when looking at results and instead feel good about the excellent progress he is making. Experiment with low carbs, recognise that bread and cereal are made by sugary demons in sugary hell where potatoes begin, record, drink plenty of fluid and relax a bit - it's jsut another thing to deal with is all. Good luck. Paul
 
Hi Omjuice Welcome to the forums. You have taken the first step by ranting about your stresses. Blood Glucose reading are fun arent they when you first start testing - sarcasm in case anyone missed it. When you are first diagnosed with Diabetes you get bombarded with all sorts of information. You are told things like your normal range for non diabetics and then you see your results and go omg how do I get it down into the normal range. You will see all sorts of advice about LCHF diets. The truth is so long as you can get your blood sugars down and stable you are winning. It takes time for it to stabilize - months in my case. You will be given advice by the Drs to follow the eat well plate. Its your choice if you follow it but we are all against it. Why would anyone want more glucose in their diets when you already have too much. This is why people are following the Low Carb diet. What does it mean to be low carb? Anything from less than 180g to 20gs carbohydrate per day. As a beginner to low carb food you need to reduce slowly until your blood sugars level out. The next question is do you need to lose weight as well as reduce sugar, this is where some people are swearing by the High fat part of the LCHF diet. Some people are losing weight others are not. I find everyone is different when it comes to the High fat. Try whole fats not processed fats, In my opinion advocados are the best food ever but thats only my opinion. Fats can be as good or as bad for you depending on your liver functions. Try to cut out manufactured foods as most people agree they are not good for us - too much hidden sugar, salts and wheat. If you need help with food ideas there are plenty on the forums. Above all remember this is a change for life diet. Eat foods you like so long as they are low in carbs. Feel free to rant and rave all you like, people respond take all advice and then form your own opinion. Remember there are those who like to poke bears take some advice with a pinch of salt ie dont take it.
Good luck
 
We've both been worried about our sugar addictions for a while but were too lazy to do anything about it, so this is a bit of a wake up call for him, and I don't want to be left out of the new health kick, so I'll have to join him in having a better diet and lifestyle. I'm kind of excited about it, actually! I'm just stressed about the short term problems. A sick husband, a 2 year old and a newborn in a couple of weeks is a lot for little me to handle, haha

He was on Indapamide, which he was on for a month but the docotor said on Thursday to stop with that straight away as it is known to worsen diabetes. He isn't on any other medication at the moment. His only other health problem is his disgustingly high BP!!

Thank you for the encouragement
 
OmJuice said:
Very interesting about the onions. My husband has been severely hypertensive for years (this morning's reading was 203/118) [...] But he's a massive lover of onions!! So it will be interesting to see if taking those away will help.
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I just did a search to see if there was any info on the effect of onions on BP, but all of the first page of results was about how it lowers BP! My friend usually avoided onion religiously, but one day had a mad craving for pickled herrings (she's Dutch) and as they're rolled with onions, she scraped them all off, but their contact was enough to put her in hospital for a few days. I wonder therefore just how unusual she was in her violent response to them. Maybe when you're a bit more settled you could try cutting them out for a few days as an experiment, it might just be worth a try if his BP is that high. Maybe he'd be worse without them!

High BP and BG are a potentially damaging double-whammy - which is why so many of us with diabetes are on BP meds too - so if you can get both under control he will seriously improve his future well-being.

Do please keep us posted as to how you go on with the appointment etc. and how your other half improves. Good luck!
 
OmJuice, As your husband is wake in the night get him to test his blood sugar in the middle of the night. In the dawn phenomena it should be lower than when he wakes up for breakfast. Its one way to know if it occurs.
 
Kyi said:
OmJuice, As your husband is wake in the night get him to test his blood sugar in the middle of the night. In the dawn phenomena it should be lower than when he wakes up for breakfast. Its one way to know if it occurs.
Click to expand...

I would just add to that, as it is better to test at bedtime for comparison with the morning fasting test. This is because the liver dump can happen during the night too - regular waking up, full bladder, restless sleep, dreams, they all cause small rises. I have noticed this when wearing a continuous sensor. In my case, only small rises when certain events occur and then a fall again. If no events occur, my levels drop during sleep and then stay flat until I wake up, then rise again.
 
I know you're being sarcastic, but it has been kind of fun to play with a new techy toy today! I have no doubt the novelty will wear off very fast though lol

I'm intrigued by the idea that many people reject the doctor's advice regarding diet. I have know quite a few people who've received bad dieting advice, for various problems, from dieticians and nurses, so this doesn't surprise me at all.

Right now - especially with the doctor's attitude the other day - we're leaning heavily towards trusting the advice and ideas from people with this condition, who have real experience, rather than hang off every word the doctor says.



Everyone on this thread today has given us so much information to go away and work with, we are so grateful!

I'll keep you posted on what's going on, and fingers crossed, improvements will continue to show

Thank you!!
 
This afternoon Colin's BG level is down to 10.5 just before lunch. Very pleased!! He's doing incredibly well with his diet. I think it's going to be challenging for him to maintain because sugar is so addictive, but he's really thrown himself into being better and I'm optimistic.
His vision is getting better each day and he said he thinks he'll be able to drive in a few days
 
I am absolutely delighted to hear it, long may it continue. He needs his vision to be good for the first time you both see your new family member.

OmJuice said:
I think it's going to be challenging for him to maintain because sugar is so addictive, but he's really thrown himself into being better and I'm optimistic.
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I can fully appreciate that the initial enthusiasm can wane when you get into the regular routine of this is how it needs to be permanently and it feels like a life sentence. But actually, you do adapt to the different way of life and most importantly, your taste buds do adapt and things you thought were yummy aren't actually as nice as you remembered them. Just taking sugar and sweetness as a single ingredient (and there's a lot more to it than just cutting out sugar), your taste buds have got used to that sickly sweetness, but once you eliminate it on a regular basis, your taste adapts really quickly and you start tasting food properly - you get to enjoy proper flavour and learn to savour great taste. And you'd be surprised how sweet ordinary food like vegetables can be.

And you don't necessarily need to give everything up totally, you can still have treats and you'll find better ways of doing things, modifying recipes etc. I still make profiteroles for special occasions, but I don't sweeten the pastry or cream and make a dark chocolate sauce with them with high cocoa content chocolate, cream and booze. The only naughty ingredient is the flour in the choux pastry and there's not much substance per profiterole.

Tell him well done and keep up the good work!
 
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