• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Currently being investigated for diabetes

I'm using two kinds of BMW calculator, as there's a new one which is supposedly more accurate if you're very short or very tall. I'm 24.9 on the old one and 26.4 on the new one. What I'm wondering is what the recommended BMW range is when it comes to diabetes.

I'm also sorting out apps and checking my calorie and carb count for today. What sort of total number of carbs do people generally go for? And any app recommendations? MyFitnessPal doesn't seem to break down the carbs enough. Whatever the results of that blood test, I want to lose a bit of weight and I know I don't do well on sugar, so this is useful either way.

Edit: aha, I'm finding answers in some of the links people had in signatures, and thinking my way through the dietary stuff. I have a mast cell disorder, so histamine is a problem for me, and I need to have a lot of fluids and a lot of salt due to the ME and the dysautonomia. While I've been OK with my usual amount of fats so far after the gallbladder removal, I probably couldn't handle a high-fat diet. I'm still interested to hear what sort of level of low-carbing people are on.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hi @Myristica, All I can say lots are eating to their meter, that's testing before a meal testing at 1hr & 2hr seeing what foods (carbohydrates) are affecting them either cutting them out or reducing portion size, I recon I am about 60 to 70 carbs, but maybe higher on occasions. I know some on here are strictly below 50 Carbs a day.

Once you get below 130 carbs you should be increasing the Fat & Protein to get the energy, as this is the level that the brain & nervous system requires, 130 carbs, to continue normally. Below 50 carbs per day you should entering into Ketosis which is where the body looks to breakdown the fat in the body to ketones for energy, instead of using glucose.

Neil
 
So you're just going for the standard waist-height ratio and BMI range, then? Meaning that a BMI of 25 is unacceptably high?

I'm glad they've moved away from the waist-hip ratio, that doesn't tell you how much fat someone has around the middle, that tells you what their body type is. According to that, I only get out of the "dangerously high risk" waist-hip zone when I'm about 7 stone, as I have pretty much no hips at all! Although I've just checked the general recommendations for women, and if they want under 31.5" for women of average height, considering that I'm 6" shorter than average, I've got more weight to lose than I thought.
 
Anyway, back to testing. The fasting blood glucose results (tomorrow, I really hope) will either be:

1. High enough for a diagnosis for diabetes. In that case, do I ask for further testing, and if so, what sort? How do they determine the type of diabetes? I have fibromyalgia, which is autoimmune.

2. Borderline, in which case what do we do next?

3. Not high enough for diabetes. In that case I really want them to retest, considering that very high reading three years ago, and that I have so many symptoms. What do I ask for in that case?

Are any of the tests unreliable, or unreliable in certain situations? I think I read about one of them not working well if you're anaemic, for instance? Not sure if I still am anaemic, I've been on iron for a few months now and they were going to test that too, plus the NHS reference ranges for anaemia are much lower than other countries'.

I'm still not near the other computer, but I do have a keyboard hooked up to the tablet at least now, so here are the symptoms I can remember. Most of them go back many years.

* Going to the toilet umpteen times a day. We counted once, and it was 26. I'm having increasing problems with dark and/or odd-smelling urine these days, even though I now drink a lot of water on cardiologist's orders. (The 26 times in one day thing was before I started drinking 3l a day, though, I was probably drinking 1.5l tops back then.) Apparently they should really have been testing me for diabetes before the urologist did all those unpleasant tests and procedures. I'm pretty tired today because I was going to the loo so often last night, though at least it wasn't as bad as ten times in a night, as it's been in the past. And I've been tested so many times for UTIs, usually with inconclusive results.

* Increased thirst - not sure, I've been on drinking 3l/day for the last two years and the ME memory loss means I can't remember what it was like before that.

* Getting terribly hungry, in particular sugar cravings when exhausted.

* Dry mouth, cracked skin around my mouth, teeth and gums not in a good state.

* Blurry vision for hours after waking up - that's more recent, perhaps a year? It's getting worse. I've had dry eyes for years.

* Extreme tiredness - I've had that since I developed ME in 1997, there's no way of telling it apart from other causes of extreme fatigue.

* Itchy skin, various fungal infections, slow wound healing. This includes gynae issues that were another occasion when I should have been tested for diabetes, I'm learning.

* Response to sugar - I've had to be careful about this for years. My response varies depending on what else and when I've eaten that day, and how I'm feeling generally, but it can make me feel really awful, including lightheadedness and headaches. I will sometimes get a head rush as soon as I bite into something sweet, especially with citrus fruit. I made sticky toffee pudding for my partner's flat-warming in October, and the amount of sugar I ended up consuming caused certain symptoms to flare up enough that I realised that I really, really have to be careful with sugar. So I've been much more careful with it since, just having one or two pieces of fruit a week and occasional tiny (e.g. 3g) pieces of very dark chocolate.

* I have to be really strict about mealtimes, I absolutely cannot skip meals, and I've been carrying emergency food with me for years. It's usually things like sesame snap bars.

* Dysautonomia, including heart rate and blood pressure problems. Fainting isn't happening since going on meds.

* Nausea - getting worse recently, which causes meds clashes. Even occasional vomiting, which was previously unheard of for me.

* I've had episodes where I collapsed very unpleasantly, was unable or barely able to move or talk, very dizzy, shaking/jerking, blackouts, heart rate and blood pressure all over the place, nausea, itchy skin, sweating, icy extremities, going whie. We thought it was something to do with the dysautonomia, probably as a result of the mast cell disorder, but there aren't any specialists in those where I live so no one really has a clue. My support worker, the one who has diabetes and recognised my morning blurry vision as a possible symptom, says a lot of this is what happens when she gets hypos. A&E have never been any help when I've been taken in after collapsing. I know one time it was happening because I wasn't getting enough to eat in general.

* Cold extremities - I can't remember, was that another symptom? My body temperature fluctuates a lot but tends to run cold, and my hands and feet get icy despite all the extra thick socks and fingerless gloves. If I'm out and getting exhausted, my partner knows when it's time to get me home because my lips turn blue.

* Weight - I've been slim most of my life (probably BMI 20-22), but put on quite a bit of weight in my late twenties (going up to about BMI 30) for a few years. I dieted surprisingly easily about five years ago, peacefully losing a pound a week until I got back to my usual weight. (At which point my GP decided I was underweight based purely on looking at me when she was used to me being fat, put it on my notes, and I would find that whatever I went in with after that, it got in the way. "No, it's TOTALLY NORMAL for your lips to go blue, it must be because you're underweight," from another GP, did stop when she actually put me on the scales and realised I was closer to overweight. I never did get any investigation into why I get so cold that my lips sometimes turn blue.) Over the last few years, I've put on some of the weight again, I'm now about BMI 25, largely due to falling in love with a good cook who has different eating habits to mine! I've started semi-dieting a few weeks ago, I'm eating smaller breakfasts and lunches but not yet calorie counting, though it looks like I will be needing to do that as well as be careful with carbs. I had a nice hourglass figure as a youngster, but I've tended to put on weight around the middle more as I've got older, and when I lost weight it disproportionately went from my hips. I do eat sensibly, nice wholefoods diet, I've just been eating a bit too much lately.

Exercise - I've got moderate/severe ME, I'm bedbound 20-24 hours a day, and as ME is made worse by exertion, I cannot increase how much I am doing beyond what is safe with the ME. It's been a bad winter, but last year I was managing to get out for little walks with my partner and the cat several times a week, so that's about the best I manage, plus doing stretches at home and the odd wheelchair trip.

I don't drink or smoke, never have.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Anyway, back to testing. The fasting blood glucose results (tomorrow, I really hope) will either be:

1. High enough for a diagnosis for diabetes. In that case, do I ask for further testing, and if so, what sort? How do they determine the type of diabetes? I have fibromyalgia, which is autoimmune.

2. Borderline, in which case what do we do next?

3. Not high enough for diabetes. In that case I really want them to retest, considering that very high reading three years ago, and that I have so many symptoms. What do I ask for in that case?

Are any of the tests unreliable, or unreliable in certain situations? I think I read about one of them not working well if you're anaemic, for instance? Not sure if I still am anaemic, I've been on iron for a few months now and they were going to test that too, plus the NHS reference ranges for anaemia are much lower than other countries'.

I'm still not near the other computer, but I do have a keyboard hooked up to the tablet at least now, so here are the symptoms I can remember. Most of them go back many years.

* Going to the toilet umpteen times a day. We counted once, and it was 26. I'm having increasing problems with dark and/or odd-smelling urine these days, even though I now drink a lot of water on cardiologist's orders. (The 26 times in one day thing was before I started drinking 3l a day, though, I was probably drinking 1.5l tops back then.) Apparently they should really have been testing me for diabetes before the urologist did all those unpleasant tests and procedures. I'm pretty tired today because I was going to the loo so often last night, though at least it wasn't as bad as ten times in a night, as it's been in the past.

* Increased thirst - not sure, I've been on drinking 3l/day for the last two years and the ME memory loss means I can't remember what it was like before that.

* Dry mouth, cracked skin around my mouth, teeth and gums not in a good state.

* Blurry vision for hours after waking up - that's more recent, perhaps a year? It's getting worse. I've had dry eyes for years.

* Extreme tiredness - I've had that since I developed ME in 1997, there's no way of telling it apart from other causes of extreme fatigue.

* Itchy skin, various fungal infections, slow wound healing. This includes gynae issues that were another occasion when I should have been tested for diabetes, I'm learning.

* Response to sugar - I've had to be careful about this for years. My response varies depending on what else and when I've eaten that day, and how I'm feeling generally, but it can make me feel really awful, including lightheadedness and headaches. I will sometimes get a head rush as soon as I bite into something sweet, especially with citrus fruit. I made sticky toffee pudding for my partner's flat-warming in October, and the amount of sugar I ended up consuming caused certain symptoms to flare up enough that I realised that I really, really have to be careful with sugar. So I've been much more careful with it since, just having one or two pieces of fruit a week and occasional tiny (e.g. 3g) pieces of very dark chocolate.

* I have to be really strict about mealtimes, I absolutely cannot skip meals, and I've been carrying emergency food with me for years. It's usually things like sesame snap bars.

* I've had episodes where I collapsed very unpleasantly, was unable or barely able to move or talk, very dizzy, shaking/jerking, blackouts, heart rate and blood pressure all over the place, nausea, itchy skin. We thought it was something to do with the dysautonomia, probably as a result of the mast cell disorder, but there aren't any specialists in those where I live so no one really has a clue. My support worker, the one who has diabetes and recognised my morning blurry vision as a possible symptom, says a lot of this is what happens when she gets hypos.

* Cold extremities - I can't remember, was that another symptom? My body temperature fluctuates a lot but tends to run cold, and my hands and feet get icy despite all the extra thick socks and fingerless gloves. If I'm out and getting exhausted, my partner knows when it's time to get me home because my lips turn blue.

* Weight - I've been slim most of my life (probably BMI 20-22), but put on quite a bit of weight in my late twenties (going up to about BMI 30) for a few years. I dieted surprisingly easily about five years ago, peacefully losing a pound a week until I got back to my usual weight. (At which point my GP decided I was underweight based purely on looking at me when she was used to me being fat, put it on my notes, and I would find that whatever I went in with after that, it got in the way. "No, it's TOTALLY NORMAL for your lips to go blue, it must be because you're underweight," from another GP, did stop when she actually put me on the scales and realised I was closer to overweight. I never did get any investigation into why I get so cold that my lips sometimes turn blue.) Over the last few years, I've put on some of the weight again, I'm now about BMI 25, largely due to falling in love with a good cook who has different eating habits to mine! I've started semi-dieting a few weeks ago, I'm eating smaller breakfasts and lunches but not yet calorie counting, though it looks like I will be needing to do that as well as be careful with carbs. I had a nice hourglass figure as a youngster, but I've tended to put on weight around the middle more as I've got older, and when I lost weight it disproportionately went from my hips. I do eat sensibly, nice wholefoods diet, I've just been eating a bit too much lately.

Exercise - I've got moderate/severe ME, I'm bedbound 20-24 hours a day, and as ME is made worse by exertion, I cannot increase how much I am doing beyond what is safe with the ME. It's been a bad winter, but last year I was managing to get out for little walks with my partner and the cat several times a week, so that's about the best I manage, plus doing stretches at home and the odd wheelchair trip.
I would want a C-peptide and such to rule out T1, I would be checking for ketones
the good news is that a LCHF diet is good for MS too, you should be fine with high fats, but increase them slowly
https://www.google.com.au/#q=lchf+ms
 
That's for if it comes back as positive for diabetes? Thanks, good to know. I have ME rather than MS, and there's no consensus on which diet is best for us. Most of us have tried a wide variety of diets by now.

Sod, I think I may have a UTI. A friend coming round for board games last night brought mochi, and after she proudly announced that she'd sourced vegan ones, I didn't have the heart to refuse a small piece. So that's not helped, and generally I am feeling rubbish, going to the loo even more than usual, smelly urine for days now, possibly slight lower abdominal pain, freezing, fibro pain flaring up again, generally feeling off. And it's not normal for even my icy hands to be so cold the touchscreen keeps failing to register, come to think of it. (Although last time I was taken TO A&E after collapsing with a UTI, they piled more and more blankets on me, then realised I had a fever and took them away again.) I am sipping bicarb of soda in water and planning the lowest-carb meal we can manage. Also feeling rather sorry for myself, but hopefully the pain meds will kick in, supper will help, and we'll curl up and watch Star Trek together.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Fasting blood glucose 3.5, HbA1c 31. Absolutely normal. A relief, but it's rather odd, considering the reading of 14 in hospital three years ago and all the symptoms. Who knows, and obviously I don't want to have diabetes! Though I do wish we could work out what's causing these symptoms and then treat them.

Either that hospital reading was an error (I always did wonder whether they'd cleaned my finger properly or whether there was fruit juice on it - can that happen, and would it explain that sort of reading, or would it have come out as something obviously wrong like 70 if it had been residual fruit juice?), or perhaps I am prone to rather bad hyperglycaemia under stress? From what I've read, stress hyperglycaemia doesn't tend to go anywhere near that high. Is it possible there's something else going on with my blood sugar, considering everything? In which case, what are the possibilities, and what sort of testing could I ask for? I was wondering whether the oral glucose tolerance test might show anything up. Goodness knows I'd feel appalling if I had that much sugar at once, and apparently it's only the equivalent of a couple of fizzy drinks (which I haven't been able to touch in years). And I absolutely cannot miss meals and often have to have a snack to prevent blacking out, I'd really like to know what's going on there.

By the way, I diligently had three low-carb meals, and am very glad not to have to be adopting that as a lifestyle! I have at least switched to wholegrains rather than white pasta and rice. I do feel much better on a combination of wholegrains and another protein source, pulses or nuts/seeds, and from what I gather, diabetics don't, they feel worse. Although it sounds like I eat a more diabetic-friendly diet than my support worker who has type 1 diabetes, from what she says!
 
Fasting blood glucose 3.5, HbA1c 31. Absolutely normal. A relief, but it's rather odd, considering the reading of 14 in hospital three years ago and all the symptoms. Who knows, and obviously I don't want to have diabetes! Though I do wish we could work out what's causing these symptoms and then treat them.

Either that hospital reading was an error (I always did wonder whether they'd cleaned my finger properly or whether there was fruit juice on it - can that happen, and would it explain that sort of reading, or would it have come out as something obviously wrong like 70 if it had been residual fruit juice?), or perhaps I am prone to rather bad hyperglycaemia under stress? From what I've read, stress hyperglycaemia doesn't tend to go anywhere near that high. Is it possible there's something else going on with my blood sugar, considering everything? In which case, what are the possibilities, and what sort of testing could I ask for? I was wondering whether the oral glucose tolerance test might show anything up. Goodness knows I'd feel appalling if I had that much sugar at once, and apparently it's only the equivalent of a couple of fizzy drinks (which I haven't been able to touch in years). And I absolutely cannot miss meals and often have to have a snack to prevent blacking out, I'd really like to know what's going on there.

By the way, I diligently had three low-carb meals, and am very glad not to have to be adopting that as a lifestyle! I have at least switched to wholegrains rather than white pasta and rice. I do feel much better on a combination of wholegrains and another protein source, pulses or nuts/seeds, and from what I gather, diabetics don't, they feel worse. Although it sounds like I eat a more diabetic-friendly diet than my support worker who has type 1 diabetes, from what she says!

It will probably remain a mystery as to why you had an elevated reading, in hospital, a few years ago. Searching backward, whilst not having all the clinical information can make 2+2 add up to something no place close to 4. It's safe to assume that you were in hospital because you weren't well, and it's known that when our bodies are dealing will illness the bloods can run higher than normal, in order to help the fight against whatever ails us. Whilst that most commonly happens with infections, it does also happen post-operatively and even just with fatigue. With your package of disorders, it could be many reasons.

Moving onto now. I'm not for a second suggesting you are manufacturing any of your symptoms, but when we consult with Dr Google, it can be easy to match Dr Google's symptom list to ourselves, to one degree or another. Certainly, if you have a UTI, the polyurea, thirst, headaches and generally feeling unwell all apply equally well to that as diabetes, and who knows how long that's been brewing.

It sounds like the reduced carb way of eating is suiting you anyway, and more and more evidence is coming to light to show carbs are generally not as good for us as was once universally believed, so perhaps stick with it for now, and see how you go?

Good luck with it all.
 
I was in hospital to have my gallbladder out, as a non-emergency keyhole op. What I'm trying to find out is how far it's normal for blood sugar to rise under that level of stress (physical stress, I mean - I was far too conked out on pain meds to be feeling anxious!). From what I've read, it sounds like 14 is pretty high for stress hyperglycaemia, which is why I'm wondering if my blood sugar tends to waltz around more than it should, even as a non-diabletic. I have had pronounced effects from sugar for years, it's why I just drink water or tea when I'm out (the local pub's used to it by now, but I got a few surprised looks the first time I asked for a cuppa!) and don't dare go near really sugary foods.

As for eating low-carb, no, I didn't feel any better on it. It was hard to get enough calories in, I was having anxiety flares, and it was too high-fat for me, causing diarrhoea. A lot of people feel pretty ill on low-carb, it's by no means a universal diet. When I was losing weight a few years ago, I was in the 3 Fat Chicks forum (which is excellent, by the way) and we noticed that the people who seemed to do best on low-carb diets were the ones with more weight to lose. Those of us who were fairly close to our target weight didn't do so well on it, generally speaking. I'm trying to remember if there's any research on that. Of course, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were a correlation between eating a lot of poor-quality carbs, especially sugar, and higher weight. There's a difference between, say, having one slice of wholewheat sourdough bread and having a couple of iced doughnuts. So maybe the people who are at a healthier weight were eating healthier carbs, and healthier amounts of carbs, to begin with?

As for Dr Google, I know that some people will read up on a symptom and decide they have it (read the opening pages of Three Men in a Boat if you want a hilarious account of someone doing that back in the 1880s), but no, I've been severely disabled since 1997, I'm used to evaluating my symptoms, and these are all well-documented. Most of them have been going on for a number of years. I'm generally having a bit of a rough time with anxiety at the moment, that probably came through (and apologies if I've been grumping at anyone!), but they're still actual physical symptoms/conditions. The problem with ME, fibro, dysautonomia, mast cell disorders and such are that they're still little-understood, especially by GPs, and so you end up with doctors vaguely assuming that everything is the ME. (Sadly, many doctors also do that with some mental illnesses, especially the more stigmatised ones such as Borderline Personality Disorder, which a friend of mine has.) There aren't any local specialists, and I have been trying to get referred to an ME specialist outside my district for years, but I need a local specialist to refer me and since there aren't any... If I can get to her, I think she'll know what's going on with the blood sugar thing. There's a non-NHS specialist in Wales who is very interested in blood sugar issues as they relate to ME, I know that much, but she has quite a mixed reputation, and I've met people she put on a paleo diet who got much worse on it.

One thing that's interesting me is that you say carbs are just carbs if you're a diabetic, it doesn't matter what sort they are, they all turn to glucose. For me, it matters immensely. I can even tell the difference between agave syrup and maple syrup in terms of whether I get a nasty sugar rush straight away. Not that I do well on either, of course, and even making hot chocolate using nothing but cocoa powder, unsweetened rice milk and stevia is sometimes a bit too much for me, since rice milk is naturally quite sweet. Anyway, if you take me when I'm due for a main meal and haven't eaten in a good few hours, feeding me, say, wholemeal pasta with lentils will be a nice, sustaining meal. Feeding me the equivalent number of carbs in the form of just sugar, well, yikes, I haven't been anywhere near anything like that in over fifteen years, but it would probably involve a migraine and quite likely a blackout. I remember doing some trial-and-error a few years ago, and we found that the most Coke I could tolerate (back then, I wouldn't risk it now) was three sips. After that, I started feeling awful. That's really not usual. This is why I'd like to investigate what's going on here, because it's not normal to get that response to sugar.
 
It is quite usual to have different reactions to different carbs, and that even differs in individuals. For example, I have always been able to eat modest portions of rice (as in paella, so there's fat in the mix too), whereas others bloods rise as it's measured into the pot! Stress is similar.

Your bloods may be skittish, and you may have frisky waves if you graph your scores, but you would only understand that by testing over a period of time. A single finger prick test is like a photograph. It's a snapshot in time and not representative of the situation several minutes before or after you do it. But, one important thing is, your HbA1c test is well into the "normal", non-diabetc range, which means your averages are normal. If you were consistently high, and into diabetic numbers, I would have expected your HbA1c to be at least closer to the pre-diabetic or diabetic ranges, so I would urge you to take comfort from that.

Your fasting level is also tightly low, which is generally good. For non-diabetics, hypo glycaemia is generally considered to be from the low 3s, with concerns down in the 2s. My HbA1c results are in my signature, and my personal fasting range, these days is 3.5 - 4.5, and I'm very happy with all of that.

If you want to life the lid on why you feel as you do sometimes, then certainly invest in a meter and strips and get testing, but I doubt very much the NHS will support that activity.

It must a be relief to know you have dodged diabetes. This is a club I'd suggest you should be happy not to join!
 
Absolutely! I have quite enough going on already! How much would a basic meter and strips be, are they worth playing with? Those rare incidents where I've collapsed and ended up in A&E do sound a lot like hypos. I have no idea whether they tested my blood sugar at the time, I was far too out of it, but the medical care wasn't always the best.
 
They test my thyroid pretty regularly, yep. I'll ask for the exact results next time.
The thing about the thyroid is that symptoms are vague and appear over time. So not only should you follow up on what your current blood test results, you should find the historical ones too and see if there is a long term change. TSH rising each year is an indication that a more serious thyroid condition is on its way. Find out how many TSH blood tests you have had. For example I know one lady that was .5, then 1, then 3, then 4, then 4.5 over five years. Whilst a reading of 3 is normal a consistently raising TSH is a sign that they thyroid is failing.
 
Back
Top