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Dawn Phenomena, how to stop it?

SlimLizzy

SlimLizzy

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,685
Location
Normandy, previously Worcestershire
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
football, both the game and the culture.
Am begining to think that a routine is probably essential, but what if I dont have one? Or, more to the point, what if I dont feel like breakfast? Or cooking? Do my exercises and have a cup of tea, with small amount of semi-skimmed milk, no sugar. Would this be enough? Probably going to have bacon etc in an hour or so, when OH is up as well.
Its not all about me, have to find a plan that works for him as well.
 
To be honest there are a lot of threads about DP but there isn't really a reliable "cure" for it apart from time. It took about 6 months of ultra low carb for mine to "normalise" so don't fret about it. I started in the 9's and now am in the 4's and 5's but even then it can be quite erratic with no apparent pattern.
 
I don't usually eat until midday, but I do have a mug of coffee with double cream first thing in the morning. If you are having tea it might be better to have full fat milk rather than semi-skimmed, and perhaps even add some butter.
 
Dawn Phenomenon is a natural occurrence for most people regardless of diabetes.
It is natural for our liver to release glucose at the start of the day to give us energy to get moving. I think this is a good idea and not something to be cured.
Those with a healthy pancreas will react by releasing insulin.
Unfortunately, those of us with defective pancreases need to find a way to minimise the impact of that glucose dump and maximise the energy from it.
 
My DP is still a mystery after 13 month of consistently reducing my HBA1c. Last summer 5s were the norm but I am relieved to see 6s lately. It doesnt help I eat supper at 8pm which is earliest OH gets in but as you rightly say its not all about being diabetic.
 
If the Dawn Phenomenon is designed to give us the energy we need when we wake up, then do diabetics who's glucose stays in the blood rather than passing into the muscles, suffer from lack of energy?
 
helensaramay said:
Dawn Phenomenon is a natural occurrence for most people regardless of diabetes.
It is natural for our liver to release glucose at the start of the day to give us energy to get moving. I think this is a good idea and not something to be cured.
Those with a healthy pancreas will react by releasing insulin.
Unfortunately, those of us with defective pancreases need to find a way to minimise the impact of that glucose dump and maximise the energy from it.
Click to expand...

It is natural for the liver to secrete glucose before waking, but unfortunately it all goes a bit sour when you are insulin resistant. The liver is a mess and continues releasing glucose even in the presence of insulin. Additionally the general insulin resistance means uptake of the glucose is suboptimal, so the effect can be like a runaway train.

It’s a real problem for many insulin resistant diabetics. The only reliable fix I ever found was continued ruthless purging of sugar from the body, and time. Insulin sensitivity and a liver that isn’t clogged with fat is really the only way to stop it :)
 
SlimLizzy said:
Am begining to think that a routine is probably essential, but what if I dont have one? Or, more to the point, what if I dont feel like breakfast? Or cooking? Do my exercises and have a cup of tea, with small amount of semi-skimmed milk, no sugar. Would this be enough? Probably going to have bacon etc in an hour or so, when OH is up as well.
Its not all about me, have to find a plan that works for him as well.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ slimLizzy. YOU are following a diet crucial to your health and if timing is important to the dawn phenomenon or otherwise then he will have to fit in with you, not the other way round! You can see who's the boss in my house eh! :)
 
Lol its not only his timing, its mine.
today had planned cooked breakfast, but, perhaps as a result of several stressful days overslept, and didnt fancy anything at all. In the end just had a cup of tea. Later made scrambled eggs and spinach.
 
helensaramay said:
Dawn Phenomenon is a natural occurrence for most people regardless of diabetes.
It is natural for our liver to release glucose at the start of the day to give us energy to get moving. I think this is a good idea and not something to be cured.
Those with a healthy pancreas will react by releasing insulin.
Unfortunately, those of us with defective pancreases need to find a way to minimise the impact of that glucose dump and maximise the energy from it.[/QUOTE
hello Helen,
Obviously I haven't expressed myself clearly here. Perhaps my understanding of the dawn phenomena is faulty.
Is this it?
The liver dumps glucose into the blood, just before we wake up and continues to do until we eat something?
Is this the foundation of the You Must Have Breakfast argument.
What about the Extend Your Fast, Skip Breakfast devotees. How does that help if the glucose levels continue to rise?
For me skip breakfast is not really an option, struggle to get enough calories in a day
So, would a cup of tea, small amount of semi skimmed milk be enough to halt the rising glucose levels? Often do my exercise routine (mostly stretches) before having tea, otherwise get unpleasant sloshing sensations. Breakfast would normally be about an hour later.
Click to expand...
 
Go talk to a diabetic doctor who is at consultant level, would be my advice.
 
Since it's normal (and probably an essential phenomenon) I've learned to let mine manage itself. It's never seriously impacted on my overall results, and morning levels came down gradually and after my meal time figures improved.

So I'd agree about not stressing over it.
 
For those following a low carb or ketogenic diet, have you measured and roughly quantified the improvement on the dawn effect?

Anyone tracked ketone levels in the blood with the dawn effect glucose impact for some correlation?

This study mentioned that for non–insulin-treated type 2, the median magnitude of the dawn glucose increase is ∼16 mg/dL (bedtime to wake up).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3836163/
 
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