Diabetic 1 and 2

Engineer88,
Thank you for taking the time out to reply. Apologies for my late reply too... I was out at a meeting.

Engineer88 said:

I am ****** off at having been yet again lumped into the unhealthily fast food eating stereotype of diabetes.

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You and me both - I'm T2.

Engineer88 said:

Im 9st and have been diabetic since 2 and a half. I was only ever fed home reared produce as my dad was a farmer and wasn't allowed any sweets because he is diabetic type 1 also. I never said genetics plays no part in type 2 only that lifestyle choices don't play ANY part in type 1.

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Without detailing my blameless life and diet, I would say it's not dissimilar to yours until relatively recently due to other health issues.. but I'm a Type 2. What you DID say was "Your also very wrong in applying this to type 1's. We are diabetic from genetics not lifestyle choices."

Engineer88 said:

Why meantion lifestyle choice? because thats what the OP was talking about!

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The OP did not mention lifestyle choice .. YOU did. It seems to me that the main thrust of the Op's post was that (in the OP's opinion) and I'm paraphrasing here, that meddling with food by manufacturers caused diabetes Type 1 & 2. Whilst I don't agree with everything the OP said, I do agree that there is too much meddling with animal welfare, pesticides and food of all types, and this may be causing health issues in some susceptible members of the population.

Engineer88 said:

I wasn't thinking about any other type other than defending my own. one which I've heard every stereotypical comment for in the last 23 years.

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Oh really, why did you feel the need to "defend" YOUR type only? And I ask again ... why mention 'lifestyle choice' in the context of YOUR type? Further, if you're fed up with the stereotyping, why not defend ALL diabetics?

Perhaps you should have thought about it. I'm glad that you have support from Type 1's on the forum who see where you're coming from from. How come other the Type 2's and others who commented, felt they were being blamed for being diabetic due a "lifestyle choice".

Engineer88 said:

I would like to point out I have never not supported anyone because of their type, and would always support people making the right choice for themselves wether that be low carb or medication changes.

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Perhaps you do... but that's not the vibe I'm getting from

Engineer88 said:

"Your also very wrong in applying this to type 1's. We are diabetic from genetics not lifestyle choices."

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You said

Engineer88 said:

I am ****** off at having been yet again lumped into the unhealthily fast food eating stereotype of diabetes.

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[/quote] If you're so supportive of all types, then you missed the perfect opportunity to say so.

Don't think that's the case in any types. Modern living means for many longer working hours, less time to prepare healthy food, less time for exercise. Even modern daily life has resulted in less daily activity for many, more cars, esculators, machinery for many jobs. Bad food has always been available, just many do make the wrong choice, or do not simply burn enough of what they eat. Stress alone is a known trigger for type 1\2 which there is plenty of. Add to that cleaner living, when exposed to germs the immune system has not built up, another trigger for type 1 being a virus. Of course unhealthy living is a known cause of type 2, be lying to say otherwise, attributed to all type 2s definatley not. Percentage wise not a clue.

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Yorksman said:

Weens12 said:

I'm also aware of the theory that "food consumption which, in type 2 diabetics, can metabolically inhibit the beta cell function, ultimately leading to beta cell death" but don't accept that is the whole story. You seem very certain that it is.

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"can metabolically inhibit the beta cell function"

Can infers neither certainty nor exclusivitity and if you know your way around the published literature you would realise that such a thing would not be possible, for virtually all studies into beta cell apoptosis are on rodents and those few which have been undertaken on humans have been post mortem and are by definition, already dead.

Nor is the statement mine which you seem to think it is. You will find the dead versus metabolically inhibited beta cell state in Dr Roy Taylor's Twin Cycle Hypothesis.

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You didn't cite your source in your original post... so I had not way of knowing from where you conjured it up. I would agree that the usage of the word 'can' in that context "infers neither certainty nor exclusivitity" which I why I was perplexed that you were so certain that no other factors could be possible causes for type 2.

I would love to debate this further with you, but I'm off to bed now.... I've read that not getting enough sleep can cause Type 2 diabetes ... oops! too late.. :lol:

Weens12 firstly I would like to point out I never meant to offend anyone when I posted originally. I wasn’t best pleased by the post as you can tell and reacted out of that rather than clear thinking.
What I do want to say now though is I feel like you believe all types of diabetes are the same and have the same causes.

It seems to me that the main thrust of the Op's post was that (in the OP's opinion) and I'm paraphrasing here, that meddling with food by manufacturers caused diabetes Type 1 & 2. Whilst I don't agree with everything the OP said, I do agree that there is too much meddling with animal welfare, pesticides and food of all types, and this may be causing health issues in some susceptible members of the population.

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What I was saying in my original post was

Your also very wrong in applying this to type 1's. We are diabetic from genetics

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Which I believe we both agree on don’t we? looking at type 1 ALONE because that’s the only type I have experience of I commented the OP was wrong to say type ones as being caused by eating unhealthy processed foods.

Now onto my second comment about

not lifestyle choices.

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I can understand you might be annoyed by that BUT I did not say this WAS the cause of any type of diabetes specifically or that there were no other causes of diabetes type 2 or otherwise. I defined lifestyle choices as

a set of attitudes, habits, or possessions associated with a particular person or group

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from the free dictionary. I understand it’s stereotypical but are the vast majority of diabetics looked upon as eating these unhealthy foods (the ones not on this site at least?)? Was that not OPs point that these foods contribute to diabetes?

I really didn’t want to upset anyone as I said I was just speaking about my experience of the type one diabetes I have. My comment was not in relation to anyone else or any other type.

Weens12 said:

You didn't cite your source in your original post... so I had not way of knowing from where you conjured it up.

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If there is doubt, ask a question. Don't make assumptions, seek clarification.

I can see where people are seeing that comment as smug but I dont actually think it was meant like that.

Im type 2, 31 and not overweight. I dont believe that mine was entirely through my lifestyle choices? Given both parents are type 2 I guess I didnt stand a chance. I do however get quite upset when people imply I brought it on myself!

Engineer88 said:

Weens12 firstly I would like to point out I never meant to offend anyone when I posted originally. I wasn’t best pleased by the post as you can tell and reacted out of that rather than clear thinking.

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In the clear light of day, I think we can both say we over-reacted to what was said, and I regret that. I am incensed when I see that type of prejudice repeated anywhere, but especially on this forum which is intended to support those with diabetes, full stop, regardless of ‘type’.

Engineer88 said:

What I do want to say now though is I feel like you believe all types of diabetes are the same and have the same causes

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Agreed. As I said in my earlier post, we are all in the same boat, regardless of how we got here. I think we should fight prejudice wherever we see it. It doesn’t do us any good to fight amongst ourselves or indeed to apportion blame to one type or another, because that is the ‘prejudice du jour’. IMO, blaming the patient is a whole lot easier than finding out what the real problem is.

I expect that I’ve made it clear that I don’t ascribe to the theory that all Type 2’s ate their way to diabetes. I believe that those people who end up with diabetes of whichever type have one or more inherited genetic defect(s) which predisposes them to get diabetes. It may also be that our carbohydrate dense western diet creates a ’risk factor’ for some people, but I firmly believe that it’s not the main cause of Type 2.

Engineer88 said:

What I was saying in my original post was
Your also very wrong in applying this to type 1's. We are diabetic from genetics

Which I believe we both agree on don’t we? looking at type 1 ALONE because that’s the only type I have experience of I commented the OP was wrong to say type ones as being caused by eating unhealthy processed foods.

Now onto my second comment about not lifestyle choices.
I can understand you might be annoyed by that BUT I did not say this WAS the cause of any type of diabetes specifically or that there were no other causes of diabetes type 2 or otherwise.

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Agreed. However, I also believe that ALL diabetics of ALL types have genetic issues which contribute to diabetes.

Engineer88 said:

I defined lifestyle choices as a set of attitudes, habits, or possessions associated with a particular person or group from the free dictionary.

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Actually, no you didn’t offer any such definition of ‘lifestyle choices’ in your original post. However, I do accept that you didn’t intend to cause offence in your original post, but I think that you may now be aware of how it could have been misconstrued?

Engineer88 said:

understand it’s stereotypical but are the vast majority of diabetics looked upon as eating these unhealthy foods (the ones not on this site at least?)? Was that not OPs point that these foods contribute to diabetes?

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Absolutely it was, and I would take issue with a lot of what was said in the Op’s post. However, I was distracted more by what you said. :crazy:

I do agree with the op on one point - that foods & drinks are unnecessarily messed around with. I don’t eat/drink such things, always having eaten healthily, but many people do, and I do think that this adulterated food is contributing to many health problems. Let’s face it – it can’t be helping.

Engineer88 said:

I really didn’t want to upset anyone as I said I was just speaking about my experience of the type one diabetes I have. My comment was not in relation to anyone else or any other type.

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I think we can agree that we were both speaking from our own experience, and that neither of us wished to offend anyone else. I do want to thank you for taking the time to clarify your position, and I hope that we can put this behind us and continue to fight prejudice wherever we see it.

Have a good day.

Yorksman said:

Weens12 said:

You didn't cite your source in your original post... so I had not way of knowing from where you conjured it up.

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If there is doubt, ask a question. Don't make assumptions, seek clarification.

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Actually, I didn't think the statement yours....You will recall that I said I was aware of the theory? (I am well aware of the publicly available research on the subject by Prof. Taylor). Having seen many of your recent posts, I know you are a big fan.

I thought that by saying I was aware of the theory, it might be obvious I was inferring that I had read the research? It would seem I was wrong in that assumption.

For avoidance of doubt: there was no doubt in my mind, I didn't make any assumptions, and I certainly didn't need to ask a question.

But thank you anyway.