Do I have good control or not??

Jibba Jabba · Jan 17, 2011

Hi

I am T2 dianosed in November 2010. Since then I have been reducing my carbs and testing upon waking and 2 hours after each meal. I can manage bran flakes of a morning (or so I thought :cry: )and test around 4.4 (fasting), which goes up to 5's or 6's (sometimes 4+) 2 hours after. After reading the advice on this forum I decided to test an hour after to see if I am spiking on the hour and had a reading of 9.4, which went down to 4.8 2 hours after. Am I basically in control do you think or would it be better to reduce my amount of bran flakes to see if I can get me levels down after an hour?

I still feel as if I am struggling a bit to be honest but I am determine to take control, stay positive and not let this run, or ruin my life.

My last hba1c in December was 6.1

Julie

Patch · Jan 17, 2011

It sounds to me like your pancreas is coping (just) with the amount of carbohydrate you are eating (although that IS quite a big spike for the amount of Bran Flakes you are eating).

I believe that as time goes on, your pancreas just gets exhausted from dealing with carbs. To my mind, this is why T2 Diabetes is labelled as a progressive disease by the medical community.

By limiting your intake of carbohydrates, I believe you can reduce the strain on your pancreas, and give it a much easier time, meaning it can produce enough insulin to deal with what little carbs you eat.

I believe that continuing to eat carbohydrates in any large quantities once diagnosed as T2 is actually causing damage to your pancrease.

There is no reason for T2D to be a progressive disease. What should be done upon diagnosis is this:

Test to see how much insulin the pancreas is still producing
Test to see how much carbohydrate can be eaten that canbe dealt with by the pancreas
Eating plan produced in line with th eabove results

Oral Glucose Tolerance Test DOES NOT help that much! There should be a cross reference with the insulin production test...

ACTUALLY - from the above two results (how much insulin/OGTT), a ratio could be produced. This ratio could be used to produce a table, indicating how much carbs can be eaten. This table could also include the medication needed to cover any additional carbohydrates.

Standard disclaimer/pre-emptive flame barrier:
Obviously, everyone is different. But this would SURELY be a better starting point than the standard diagnosis adcice that we are given now?

noblehead · Jan 17, 2011

Jibba Jabba,

You could try swapping your bran flakes for a bowl of scotch porridge oats instead, oats are much slower to release its energy and should not spike your bg as much as the bran flakes do. The bran flakes will have sugar added in the ingredients as where porridge is purely oats and nothing else, a far better option as there is no added salt too. Try it and see, just remember to test over a few days and remember portion control.

Nigel

Jibba Jabba · Jan 17, 2011

Thanks for your reply Patch I think that my best course of action is to reduce my carb intake further and see how that goes. I was under the (probably false) impression that because my 2 hour reading was relatively good then I was managing okay but now I am taking 1 hour readings I realise that maybe my control is not so good

I understand that everyone is diffent and we each have to manage our own diabetes but can I ask how many carbs you roughly eat at each meal?

Thanks again

Julie

PS probably should have said that I am diet control only.

Patch · Jan 17, 2011

Be very wary of porridge oats (rolled/milled/coarse).

Like Nigel said - test before eating, +1hr and +2hrs to see how it effects you. personally, I avoid porridge like the plague*.

[*but we're all different...]

Jibba Jabba · Jan 17, 2011

noblehead said:
Jibba Jabba,

You could try swapping your bran flakes for a bowl of scotch porridge oats instead, oats are much slower to release its energy and should not spike your bg as much as the bran flakes do. The bran flakes will have sugar added in the ingredients as where porridge is purely oats and nothing else, a far better option as there is no added salt too. Try it and see, just remember to test over a few days and remember portion control.

Nigel

Hi Nigel

I bought some porridge the other day but can't remeber if they are Scotch Porridge Oats(the box with the small packets), the ol' grey matter doesn't work as well as it used to :lol: :lol: I will give ths a try. I understand that if you sprinkle cinnamon on it then that helps - is this correct?

Thanks

Julie

Jibba Jabba · Jan 17, 2011

Patch said:
Be very wary of porridge oats (rolled/milled/coarse).

Like Nigel said - test before eating, +1hr and +2hrs to see how it effects you. personally, I avoid porridge like the plague*.

[*but we're all different...]

I think it is going to be much trial and error but onwards and upwards :lol:

Thanks again Patch

cugila · Jan 17, 2011

Patch said:
By limiting your intake of carbohydrates, I believe you can reduce the strain on your pancreas, and give it a much easier time, meaning it can produce enough insulin to deal with what little carbs you eat.

I believe that continuing to eat carbohydrates in any large quantities once diagnosed as T2 is actually causing damage to your pancrease.
I totally agree, anything that is forced to work harder can eventually wear out or work at a reduced capacity.
There is no reason for T2D to be a progressive disease. What should be done upon diagnosis is this:
I agree there is no reason why it should be progressive providing the T2 is pro-active and has the willpower and motivation to work at it rather than just relying on medication to do the work.
Test to see how much insulin the pancreas is still producing
Good idea in theory but the Human Body is not like a machine, the amount of Insulin produced will vary not just in relation to the carbs but also from the effects of many other variables, time of day for instance. My Pancreas produces more Insulin in the evening than in the morning. A difficult balance.
Test to see how much carbohydrate can be eaten that canbe dealt with by the pancreas
As above........there is not a set number of carbs a person can eat, many carbs will have differing effects again, there are many variables.
Eating plan produced in line with th eabove results
Bit like the advice we give out on here (although based on experience) and which some Dieticians and HCP's also subscribe to. I'm all for it.

Oral Glucose Tolerance Test DOES NOT help that much! There should be a cross reference with the insulin production test...

ACTUALLY - from the above two results (how much insulin/OGTT), a ratio could be produced. This ratio could be used to produce a table, indicating how much carbs can be eaten. This table could also include the medication needed to cover any additional carbohydrates.
Erm......we are not Robot's, as you say everybody is different and what works for one will not be suitable for another. It really is down to the individual to test, test and test again and find out what works for them. Medication too has different effects on each individual and is not an exact science. Bit too simplistic for my liking Patch. The Human Body is far more complex than any engineering principles.

Standard disclaimer/pre-emptive flame barrier:
Obviously, everyone is different. But this would SURELY be a better starting point than the standard diagnosis adcice that we are given now?

noblehead · Jan 17, 2011

Jibba Jabba said:
noblehead said:

Jibba Jabba,

You could try swapping your bran flakes for a bowl of scotch porridge oats instead, oats are much slower to release its energy and should not spike your bg as much as the bran flakes do. The bran flakes will have sugar added in the ingredients as where porridge is purely oats and nothing else, a far better option as there is no added salt too. Try it and see, just remember to test over a few days and remember portion control.

Nigel

Click to expand...

Hi Nigel

I bought some porridge the other day but can't remeber if they are Scotch Porridge Oats(the box with the small packets), the ol' grey matter doesn't work as well as it used to :lol: :lol: I will give ths a try. I understand that if you sprinkle cinnamon on it then that helps - is this correct?

Thanks

Julie

Julie, I think they are the instant microwave variety that are milled to death, you are better with the traditional scotch porridge oats that are less refined and thus release its energy slower (takes longer for the digestive system to break down) as where highly refined oats are faster digested. The instant oats like ready brek cause my bg to spike so this is why I choose traditional oats, try adding pumpkin seeds and a few blueberries for a truly delicious breakfast that will keep you full all morning.

Nigel

Nigel

Jibba Jabba · Jan 17, 2011

Thanks Nigel

I will get some on the way home I love blueberries and we always have them at home, along with raspberries and strawberries, so that won't be any hardship. How much gram wise would you suggest that I start at?

Julie
x

hanadr · Jan 17, 2011

A breakfast with a reasonable amount of protein will keep hunger away for most of the day.
Hana

Patch · Jan 17, 2011

Jibba Jabba said:
Can I ask how many carbs you roughly eat at each meal?

I aim for ZERO carbs (I'm being super strict at the moment!). That gives me a LITTLE wiggle room so that I can have some condiments (horseradish/mustard/TINY amount of ketchup/Flavoured mayonaise) with my meat.

When I'm being less strict, again, practically aim for zero. But even then, the only carbs I get are from nuts and veggies (and some cheeses). So aiming for zero gives me a little wiggle room so that I can slip up a little and still be well below 30g.

Choose your fruit and veg CAREFULLY. I only touch berries every once in a while, and steer well clear of any veg that has any significant carbs in. (Cabbage, spinach, broccoli, string beans, cauliflower, celeriac, asparagus - all good. Carrots, swede, potatoes - all bad).

30g is the max level allowed for Atkins Induction (the eaqting plan I'm following right now). This ensures that your body is switched over to burning fat for fuel instead of carbohydrate.

sugarless sue · Jan 17, 2011

It is practically impossible to eat no carbs !

Anyway, as a Diabetic you should know that approx. 60% of protein converts to glucose in the body especially when you are ultra low carbing so this will have some impact on your blood glucose levels.

Jibba Jabba · Jan 17, 2011

sugarless sue said:
It is practically impossible to eat no carbs !

Anyway, as a Diabetic you should know that approx. 60% of protein converts to glucose in the body especially when you are ultra low carbing so this will have some impact on your blood glucose levels.

I think I will stick to trial and error Sue and see how I go from there. I will test a wee bit more than I have been until I am comfortable with what I can tolerate. Maybe I am trying to run before I can walk but at least I am going in the right direction

Thanks so much for all your help everone - it is invaluable as far as I am concerned

Julie
xx

jillybean465 · Jan 17, 2011

hi, looks 2 me think u have great control of ur diabetes, i wouldnt change a thing if ur bms dropping to 4 before u eat thats great just like a normal reading, u dont want ur bm dropping any lower than that, then u start feeling unwell
ur doing great keep it up, a should take a note or to from you so a can have readings like that

Jibba Jabba · Jan 18, 2011

noblehead said:
Jibba Jabba said:

noblehead said:

Jibba Jabba,

You could try swapping your bran flakes for a bowl of scotch porridge oats instead, oats are much slower to release its energy and should not spike your bg as much as the bran flakes do. The bran flakes will have sugar added in the ingredients as where porridge is purely oats and nothing else, a far better option as there is no added salt too. Try it and see, just remember to test over a few days and remember portion control.

Nigel

Click to expand...

Hi Nigel

I bought some porridge the other day but can't remeber if they are Scotch Porridge Oats(the box with the small packets), the ol' grey matter doesn't work as well as it used to :lol: :lol: I will give ths a try. I understand that if you sprinkle cinnamon on it then that helps - is this correct?

Thanks

Julie

Click to expand...

Julie, I think they are the instant microwave variety that are milled to death, you are better with the traditional scotch porridge oats that are less refined and thus release its energy slower (takes longer for the digestive system to break down) as where highly refined oats are faster digested. The instant oats like ready brek cause my bg to spike so this is why I choose traditional oats, try adding pumpkin seeds and a few blueberries for a truly delicious breakfast that will keep you full all morning.

Nigel

Nigel

Good morning

Well Nigel, I tried 20g Scotts Porridge Oats this morning with a few (6) raspeberries and a small amount of blueberries. My fasting BG level tested at 4.9, BG tested at 6.5 an hour after and back to 4.9 after two hours .

I will do the same again tomorrow and the day after to see how my tolerence levels hold out.

Thank you so much for your help.

Julie
x

Patch · Jan 18, 2011

/Patch: Ofiicially jealous! :wink:

Jibba Jabba · Jan 18, 2011

Aww, sorry Patch - I must admit, I was pleasantly suprised at my BG's to say the least

Julie
x

noblehead · Jan 18, 2011

Good morning

Well Nigel, I tried 20g Scotts Porridge Oats this morning with a few (6) raspeberries and a small amount of blueberries. My fasting BG level tested at 4.9, BG tested at 6.5 an hour after and back to 4.9 after two hours .

I will do the same again tomorrow and the day after to see how my tolerence levels hold out.

Thank you so much for your help.

Julie
x

Excellent results Julie! Try to add a few pumpkin seeds or sunflower seeds to your porridge also, perhaps tomorrow try leaving the 2 hour test out and test your bg at 1 and 3 hours after eating and post your results again.

Regards

Nigel

Patch · Jan 18, 2011

S'okay - I'll get over it... You might even be able to get that 1 hr spike down a little (although this may raise your 2hr reading a little, too) by adding some cream to the oats?

Do I have good control or not??

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