Driving licence suspension

How glad I am that I live in France!! Driving licences are not the hastle that there seems to be in the UK. I have an HGV and limited bus licence, have a medical every 2 years and have no problem. Granted I have been a diabetic for 12 years, on insulin. Granted that my control has been good, and the doctor reckons that my control is about as good as you can get. Frankly I see other DB's that cannot seem to get to grips with control, exacerbated it seems in the UK by total lack of understanding by doctors! I had for example an operation and the doctors INSISTED they would control my bloods, did they phcuk!!! It took 3 days to sort out my BS. The next op I INSISTED that I control the BS, and I came around and my BS was slightly higher than normal.
Its a case of control. Get it correct and you do not get problems. Sure I get times when I know my BS has gone below say 4, have a pear and I am OK for hours.
One MUST get to understand your life, frankly, if you cannot control the BS then you have to ask are you safe to drive. I have (touch wood) NEVER had a hypo or hyper and I am on about 42 of Novomix 3 x a day and a night shot of 28. My bloods normally are from 4 through to 10. The 10 in the evening or if I have a cold etc.
The crux of the matter is the bandalettes, test strips, whatever, IF the NHS refuse the strips then they must accept that you need transport all the time as you are unable to control your BS. Frankly, if you are refused test strips, then obviously you are a liability. See about a yearly prescription payment and a regular prescription along with medication. You DARE not take any Diabetic medication without them!

sw11bloke said:

One thing I have learned: Never tell your diabetic specialist or GP if you have a bad hypo requiring assistance. They will be forced to divulge this information to the DVLA.

Click to expand...

A bad hypo requiring assistance will generally mean you are treated by a doctor or paramedic and it is as much their duty to inform the DVLA as it is yours. So the chances are you would be caught out hopefully.

If you withhold any information from the DVLA which later comes to light you can be prosecuted and you will at best be driving without insurance as it is a requirement of your insurance to notify the DVLA of any medical condition that may affect your driving.

If you are found to be a badly controlled diabetic after a fatal or other serious accident you can be jailed! And rightly so when a death has been caused IMHO http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-g ... t-20803200

So to suggest that people dont tell the DVLA if they have suffered a serious hypo is probably the most dangerous advice I have read on here for a long time. Sorry but thats my opinion.

To see opinions posted on this forum, from people who I assume are diabetics is worrying. Of course if you are extremely unstable and / or don't take proper care then you shouldn't drive, but I am finding now that although I have been driving now for 30 years, when I am going into the doctors and asking for blood test strips, because I live on my own and cannot afford to have any hypos, they are immediately questioning my driving license, as if I go in and a say a bug has made my sugar levels unstable. I wouldn't drive if I have flu or some other bug, as I simply wouldn't trust my judgement irrespective of diabetes, and I wouldn't drive when I am asleep which is the other time likely to have hypos.

The EU / DVLA might as well ban everyone from driving because they have the potential to drink, or fall asleep at the wheel. At some stage you have to trust peoples' intelligence and see that you have to be intelligent about the laws you apply. To see people on this forum actually back this monstrous piece of legislation, demonstrating the same lack of understanding as the EU, leaves me speechless. The only time a diabetics license should be taken away from them is if they are found to have a hypo at the wheel, or their doctor deems they are not fit to drive, and as diabetic consultants are required to grant licenses, this shouldn't be a problem. I now feel wary of telling the doctors when a bug has affected my sugar levels, when I haven't had a hypo or am not even driving, as they now seem to be obsessed by this legislation and they will question my license before looking for a cure.

Sid Bonkers - are you really as to suggest that two night time hypos warrant your license being taking away?
removed inflammatory remarks - moderator edit

gmv8 said:

Sid Bonkers - are you really as bonkers as to suggest that two night time hypos warrant your license being taking away? Do YOU drive in your sleep?
Absolutely Bonkers.

Click to expand...

According to the DVLA yes it does. So there is no need to attack SB The whole of SB's post is factual and correct.

phoenix said:

Sorry but I think that what your father has been told is correct .
To reapply for a licence ,the person has to be able to fulfil the medical standards for the issue of the licence
https://www.gov.uk/reapply-driving-lice ... -condition

These standards for diabetes include the statements that a person
•Must have awareness of hypoglycaemia.
•Must not have had more than one episode of hypoglycaemia requiring the assistance of another person in the preceding twelve months

http://www.npc.nhs.uk/rapidreview/?p=4937

The form he would have to fill in (DIAB1) asks quite specifically:
Have you had more than one episode of severe hypoglycaemia (requiring assistance from another person)
in the last 12 months? Do not count episodes where you were given help but could have helped yourself.

Unfortunately, he won't be able to say no to this until October.

Sorry, of course you can pursue it and you might find a loophole ( appeal to a magistrates court as mentioned on DUK) but somehow I think the law is now very much more explicit than it was in the past.
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Guide-to-dia ... aken-away/



I don't think every diabetic has hypos that need assistance. If you need assistance then are you fit to drive?

It's a bit off topic but If you think the UK is being discriminatory with their very cut and dried interpretation of the rules then don't move across the channel.
Any new applicant for a licence with insulin treated diabetes has to present themselves to a medical tribunal comprising a couple of docs who don't necessarily know anything about D and certainly don't know the person. BG records and monitors are examined, hypos questioned (again not more than one that needs help allowed) The person questioned has to show an understanding of the dangers of hypos and demonstrate they are hypo aware ( 'too many' hypos on meter might suggest a lack of awareness for example) They might get a licence for 6 months-3 years but there isn't any clear info on what decisions are based on (and a lot of speculation that it varies from area to area) When the licence expires they have to go the whole thing again (and pay for the privilege each time).
Drivers that already have a licence when they start insulin have for the moment escaped. (now that's discriminatory) However, if involved in an accident or caught with more than a minor driving infraction the gendarmes can report them to the tribunal and then they get stuck into the system for the rest of their driving life.

Click to expand...

Do you drive when you are asleep? THAT is why this legislation is unfair, and will puts diabetics lives at risk, as they will not want to seek proper care for something totally unrelated to driving, like a night time hypo.

CarbsRok said:

According to the DVLA yes it does. So there is no need to attack SB The whole of SB's post is factual and correct.

Click to expand...

Is it factual and correct that people drive in their sleep?

CarbsRok said:

According to the DVLA yes it does. So there is no need to attack SB The whole of SB's post is factual and correct.

Click to expand...

He is sugggesting that this legislation is correct, THAT is why I am criticising him, there is no relationship between having night time hypos and having hypos whilst driving at wheel. Badly thought out legislation is worse than no legislation at all. I'm really suprised that I am arguing this point on a diabetic forum,

gmv8 said:

Is it factual and correct that people drive in their sleep?

He is sugggesting that this legislation is correct, THAT is why I am criticising him, there is no relationship between having night time hypos and having hypos whilst driving at wheel. Badly thought out legislation is worse than no legislation at all. I'm really suprised that I am arguing this point on a diabetic forum,

Click to expand...

Instead of shooting the messenger perhaps read SB's post again.
He is quite rightly warning people off of lying on a legal document to obtain a driving licence. It doesn't matter whether you or anyone else thinks the legalisation is wrong.

Found the following which gives some statistics on hypo's and driving:

• The DVLA receive on average 12-15 police notifications per month relating to significant driving incidents associated with hypoglycaemia at the wheel from a driving population of about 100,000 drivers with insulin treated diabetes. [This does not include accidents not reported to the police!]
• In the past 12 months, the DVLA has been made aware of at least 5 fatalities in hypoglycaemia-related traffic accidents.
• Hypoglycaemia is not a major contributor to the overall number of road traffic accidents, it is a potentially preventable cause of serious road accidents and/or fatalities and if hypo awareness is lost or diminished, then patients should be advised to cease driving.

http://iddt.org/about/living-with-diabetes/driving/hypoglycaemia-and-driving

gmv8 said:

Is it factual and correct that people drive in their sleep?

He is sugggesting that this legislation is correct, THAT is why I am criticising him, there is no relationship between having night time hypos and having hypos whilst driving at wheel. Badly thought out legislation is worse than no legislation at all. I'm really suprised that I am arguing this point on a diabetic forum,

Click to expand...

This Thread has some varying viewpoints which have been well argued..
However your post to Sid Bonkers was rude. Simply registering your opposing view adds to the debate, whereas calling names just detracts from a very important topic.
Sid was helpfully informing us of facts and consequences. We must work within the rules and regulations that exist, whilst campaigning to change them if we disagree.

janewatt said:

This Thread has some varying viewpoints which have been well argued..
However your post to Sid Bonkers was rude. Simply registering your opposing view adds to the debate, whereas calling names just detracts from a very important topic.
Sid was helpfully informing us of facts and consequences. We must work within the rules and regulations that exist, whilst campaigning to change them if we disagree.

Click to expand...

Sorry, which name did I call him? As a moderator, I would've expected better this from you. I am registering the fact that it is completely unfair for diabetics to be banned from driving for night time hypos, which have nothing to driving. Sid Bonkers appears to agree with this discriminatory legislation from his post - "So the chances are you would be caught out hopefully." I have not been rude, I have been registering my opinion, which is supposed to be the point of a forum? Do you seriously believe this is fair? Even non-diabetics have made the point that it isn't. What chance is there of reversing this, if even on a diabetic forum, people aren't portraying the unfairness of this law correctly.

I also don't believe the DVLA rules regarding driving are fair but they are being looked at. I feel your anger over the loss of your father's license but shouting on a forum won't help. If a member of your family were injured due to a driver going hypo at the wheel, you'd be asking lots of questions. The best thing to do is for now is follow the rules and get his license back. After that, try to look at any underlying causes of these hypo's as they must be fairly serious to require hospital attention.
As for trying to get a change in the law for drivers with diabetes, try writing to your MP or start a petition or similar. Good luck.

CarbsRok said:

Instead of shooting the messenger perhaps read SB's post again.
He is quite rightly warning people off of lying on a legal document to obtain a driving licence. It doesn't matter whether you or anyone else thinks the legalisation is wrong.

Click to expand...

No - he was registering his own personal opinion as well as conveying the facts - "So the chances are you would be caught out hopefully.". My point, that both yourself and JaneWatt have now completely obscured, is that it is totally unfair that diabetics should be banned from driving for two night time hypos, which has nothing to do with driving. It will just get worse if this is allowed to continue. Now whenever I go into a Doctor with an illness, my driving license is brought up before we actually get to sorting out my malady !? If you believe that banning diabetics for two night time hypos is fair, as Sid Bonkers seems to, and are willing to support it, with even the moderators portraying the context of my message incorrectly, then I don't really think that this forum is in the best interests of diabetics.

gmv8 said:

Sorry, which name did I call him? As a moderator, I would've expected better this from you. I am registering the fact that it is completely unfair for diabetics to be banned from driving for night time hypos, which have nothing to driving. Sid Bonkers appears to agree with this discriminatory legislation from his post - "So the chances are you would be caught out hopefully." I have not been rude, I have been registering my opinion, which is supposed to be the point of a forum? Do you seriously believe this is fair? Even non-diabetics have made the point that it isn't. What chance is there of reversing this, if even on a diabetic forum, people aren't portraying the unfairness of this law correctly.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the "better" is you refer to.
I haven't given my view on the subject and am not necessarily disagreeing with you (I don't know enough about it to judge) but I believe that your words to Sid were rude.
Please do continue to "register your opinion", but in a reasonable way. That might win you more supporters for your cause.

gmv8
I personally have never needed assistance during a hypo. Personally, If I did I would be questioning my hypo awareness and diabetes control and my consequent ability to drive safely. I could never forgive myself if I endangered another persons life.

Having said that there was another person posting about this same topic the other day (interesting also had an 8 at the end of his 'name' Ocho8 )
I wrote this which seems just as appropriate to you

The committee that advised the EU on this included people from several different countries including the UK. The outside consultant on hypoglycaemia was in fact British but if you read the report it seems the question on nocturnal severe hypoglycaemia wasn't specifically addressed as a separate issue.
There was a petition about this a year or so ago. I mentioned to the complier of that petition that if he wanted to get authorities evidence he should perhaps contact the external advisor for his views.
The advisor was Professor Prof Brian Frier. He has written many articles and the standard text on hypoglycaemia. Perhaps you should contact him for his views . Until 2012 he was the chair of the DVLA diabetes medical panel. http://www.cvs.ed.ac.uk/users/brian-frier

Click to expand...

janewatt said:

I'm not sure what the "better" is you refer to.
I haven't given my view on the subject and am not necessarily disagreeing with you (I don't know enough about it to judge) but I believe that your words to Sid were rude.
Please do continue to "register your opinion", but in a reasonable way. That might win you more supporters for your cause.

Click to expand...

I think we will just have to agree to disagree, but would just prefer to put my energies into reversing unfair legislation. By saying "better" I meant that I didn't call him any names, I was calling the legislation that he agreed with bonkers, which he has used as his name, so I don't really understand why that is rude.

gmv8 said:

Sorry, which name did I call him?

Click to expand...

er, what you said was "are you really as bonkers as to suggest that two night time hypos warrant your license being taking away?" which is strange really as I never said anything of the sort.

What I actually said and the point I was making was: "If you withhold any information from the DVLA which later comes to light you can be prosecuted and you will at best be driving without insurance as it is a requirement of your insurance to notify the DVLA of any medical condition that may affect your driving."

And the only opinion I offered was that I thought it wrong to withhold information from the DVLC, an opinion I still hold 16 months later. Which is why I find your posts rather odd to say the least.

Sorry but I dont make the rules I was just stating what they are.

gmv8 said:

I think we will just have to agree to disagree, but would just prefer to put my energies into reversing unfair legislation. By saying "better" I meant that I didn't call him any names, I was calling the legislation that he agreed with bonkers, which he has used as his name, so I don't really understand why that is rude.

Click to expand...

Maybe because I have recently been to the doctors, and they are continually trying to cut down my blood test strips, while trying every way they can to take away my driving license, which they can't at the moment as I am so well controlled, but it certainly doesn't make life easier by cutting down on the strips.

Sid Bonkers said:

er, what you said was "are you really as bonkers as to suggest that two night time hypos warrant your license being taking away?" which is strange really as I never said anything of the sort.

What I actually said and the point I was making was: "If you withhold any information from the DVLA which later comes to light you can be prosecuted and you will at best be driving without insurance as it is a requirement of your insurance to notify the DVLA of any medical condition that may affect your driving."

And the only opinion I offered was that I thought it wrong to withhold information from the DVLC, an opinion I still hold 16 months later. Which is why I find your posts rather odd to say the least.

Sorry but I dont make the rules I was just stating what they are.

Click to expand...

As I live on my own I can't have night time hypos, but I don't see a problem with people not reporting them to the DVLA. As I drive on the roads as well, I would like them to be as safe as possible, but this legislation has nothing to road safety.

gmv8 said:

Maybe because I have recently been to the doctors, and they are continually trying to cut down my blood test strips, while trying every way they can to take away my driving license, which they can't at the moment as I am so well controlled, but it certainly doesn't make life easier by cutting down on the strips.

Click to expand...

If you haven't already used it this letter from the department of health might help
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa.../Safe-care-of-people-with-type-1-diabetes.pdf

Hi

ive just had a look at my copy of the DIAB1 form dated rev Apr 13 which does ask about hypoglycaemia but diesnt ask about night hypos. It just asks about hypos requiring assistance from another person in the lsst 12 months. Then it goes on to stste.....do not count episodes where you were given help but ckuld have helped yourself.

Hope this helps peeps a bit