Employer and time off - I’M REALLY FED UP

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

DCUKMod said:
It can happen, but unless the employee's contract states he would be employed, such as your friend/colleague/acquaintance, an employer is not obliged to retain them.

He had the same contract as the rest of us and there was nothing specific in that contract about such matters.

DCUKMod said:
For truly personalised advice either a union, if availabel, or a solicitor are the way forward.

Though solicitors are very expensive. There is of course the potential for a tribunal.

I do not believe the then employer would have done it out of sheer kind hearted ness.
I have a Compromise Agreement with that company so cannot name them but they are a huge American corporation who’s CEO was not so long ago Republican Vice President of the USA - these companies are not known for giving money away when they don’t need to.

Coincidentally a different work colleague of mine in a different company has Type 1 diabetes. The employer bends over backwards to accommodate her and she has had a lot of concessions made by him in that regard. There are often other factors that come into play.

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

manion said:
Hi

I employ a type 1 diabetic and as this is a chronic condition needing continuous treatment and maintenance of the condition the person receives protection under the disability act.

It is against the law for an employer to discriminate, treat differently, discipline or dismiss an employee for the condition however a long and drawn out process under capability can be brought but this has to be totally proven outside of just the time taken to service the condition.

I look after my employee who is type 1 as I understand the condition and realise it is not anything other than management of the condition that causes the odd incident at work and doctors appointments that need to be attended (I was pre diabetic but low carb and exerclsise has at the moment reversed this).

I would at the meeting tell them that you as a disabled employee with a chronic condition is being discriminated against and that you require a cessation of the aggressive attack on you when the rest of your employment is exemplary (providing it is) and that you will seek retribution from an employment tribunal should the discrimination continue.

Just my thoughts but hope it helps.

I believe that to be the case.

KK123 · Jan 31, 2019

Listlad said:
I do believe you cannot be fired on health related grounds. Though employers can find other excuses.

Try ACAS. They know the answers with this sort of thing. I have personally spoken to ACAS and they are very helpful and useful too.

Listlad, that's not true. My employer for example can fire people who have been off sick as it comes under the 'unsatisfactory performance' regulations.

DCUKMod · Jan 31, 2019

Listlad said:
He had the same contract as the rest of us and there was nothing specific in that contract about such matters.

Though solicitors are very expensive. There is of course the potential for a tribunal.

I do not believe the then employer would have done it out of sheer kind hearted ness.
I have a Compromise Agreement with that company so cannot name them but they are a huge American corporation who’s president was not so long ago Republican Vice President of the USA - these companies are not known for giving money away when they don’t need to.

Coincidentally a different work colleague of mine in a different company has Type 1 diabetes. The employer bends over backwards to accommodate her and she has had a lot of concessions made by him in that regard. There are often other factors that come into play.

If you have a Compromise Agreement in place is this a company you want to work with anyway? Those usually come into when a one-off agreement is reached in some form of dispute.

As you say, there are a lot of factors in play. Solicitors are expensive. A solicitor in employment law will be about £400 an hour, but if you were to end up in Tribunal, you would usually need a Barrister too.

It really is avoiding Tribunal if you can. It's an all-round unpleasant experience. OK, if you win, you might recover your costs, but if you don't won, you could be required to pay the other side's costs. Bearing in mind it sounds like your employer is substantial, their pockets will be deep, in terms of protecting their position.

I have attended Tribunal, on the the employers side. It is highly stressful, for all concerned. Obviously, I wouldn't consider telling you not to go there, but it wouldn't be for me.

DCUKMod · Jan 31, 2019

KK123 said:
Listlad, that's not true. My employer for example can fire people who have been off sick as it comes under the 'unsatisfactory performance' regulations.

Most businesses, and their management will refer to it as "Managing Out".

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

KK123 said:
Listlad, that's not true. My employer for example can fire people who have been off sick as it comes under the 'unsatisfactory performance' regulations.

What do those regulations state exactly?

KK123 · Jan 31, 2019

Hi Robotears, what work do you do as a matter of interest.

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

DCUKMod said:
If you have a Compromise Agreement in place is this a company you want to work with anyway? Those usually come into when a one-off agreement is reached in some form of dispute.

As you say, there are a lot of factors in play. Solicitors are expensive. A solicitor in employment law will be about £400 an hour, but if you were to end up in Tribunal, you would usually need a Barrister too.

It really is avoiding Tribunal if you can. It's an all-round unpleasant experience. OK, if you win, you might recover your costs, but if you don't won, you could be required to pay the other side's costs. Bearing in mind it sounds like your employer is substantial, their pockets will be deep, in terms of protecting their position.

I have attended Tribunal, on the the employers side. It is highly stressful, for all concerned. Obviously, I wouldn't consider telling you not to go there, but it wouldn't be for me.

The Compromise agreement is usually agreed upon at a point of exit.

They are often used as a matter of routine at a point of lay off and acts as a sweetner to keep quiet. Jose Mourinho has something similar.

KK123 · Jan 31, 2019

Listlad said:
What do those regulations state exactly?

Blimey, I haven't got time to list them verbatim or in response to a curt reply (there are hundreds of pages) but one absence if it is over 7 days or 2 within a period of 6 months, gets you on a stage one (a warning). Another absence after that within 12 months gets you onto stage 2. One more after that and it's stage 3 and dismissal. Obviously each case is different when it comes to whether there are any extenuating circumstances but each of the stages apply to ALL employees. Not all companies have the same regulations either but obviously they all have to abide by the disability act.

DCUKMod · Jan 31, 2019

Listlad said:
The Compromise agreement is usually agreed upon at a point of exit.

They are often used as a matter of routine at a point of lay off and acts as a sweetner to keep quiet. Jose Mourinho has something similar.

Yes, I know what a compromise agreement it. They're not solely used at the point of exit, but often used as a lever to an exit.

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

Often you can get free legal advice from an Employment Law solicitor. But ACAS specialise in employment law so would be a good port of call.

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

DCUKMod said:
Yes, I know what a compromise agreement it. They're not solely used at the point of exit, but often used as a lever to an exit.

Exactly.

Deleted member 308541 · Jan 31, 2019

robotears said:
No union representation for me and I believe there’s an issue joint retrospectively...
I’ve had problems all along and so don’t think I can go in that direction.

robotears said:
*issue joining

You say the union will not represent you, why is that, and why do you have a issue joining a union?

The union will have free legal advice for a member.

Listlad · Jan 31, 2019

@robotears

This seems quite useful - not sure if it has already been posted as a link :

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-and-jobs-faqs.html

Quoting from the source:

“Does my diabetes allow me to take time off work?
Diabetes should allow you to take time off work where necessary.

The law does not dictate that the time off should necessarily be paid, however, some firms may be happy to do so. Time off work is covered by the Disability Discrimination Act, stating that an employer should make reasonable adjustments to stop you being disadvantaged in comparison with non-diabetic workers.”

That sounds encouraging.

robotears · Feb 1, 2019

KK123 said:
Hi Robotears, what work do you do as a matter of interest.

I work for a large firm that provides services for local authorities. My own work is as a Tree Surveyor. So it’s fairly difficult to switch out to different employers and I have to travel a fair distance to my place of work anyway.

robotears · Feb 1, 2019

I’ve been really appreciating the responses here and have felt very supported by you all, so thank you.

One thing that occurs to me is to pass on the little known fact that most mortgages will have an allowance for legal fees when it comes to employment disputes. I had no idea until I was told a while back by an employment law specialist to check my own policy paperwork when I was being harassed by a bullying supervisor. I didn’t pursue it in the end (as the supervisor was let go due to failing a d&a test) but that was the experience that put me in touch with ACAS who were very good and also the thing about not being able to join a union with a pre-existing issue - though I may have the wrong end of the stick with this as it was a very difficult time

But my overall position at this time (I’m awaiting the letter of invitation to the stage 2) is that I am going to prepare myself to ask for the compromise regards my diabetic appointments so that I don’t feel so pressured. If this isn’t discussed in a reasonable fashion then I shall certainly be looking at a DDA enquiry via ACAS again.

None of us asked for this condition! None of us have brought it upon ourselves!
So therefore surely it is unfair to be made to lose holiday time just to attend legitimate appointments (I always provide copies of the letters) as well as having to manage this all the time.

Listlad · Feb 1, 2019

robotears said:
One thing that occurs to me is to pass on the little known fact that most mortgages will have an allowance for legal fees when it comes to employment disputes. I had no idea until I was told a while back by an employment law specialist to check my own policy paperwork.....

I was told that too.

Also some credit card arrangements have a similar facility. Mine did a few years back.

These points were pointed out to me by an employment law solicitor a few years ago.

That bit about joining the Union is correct, btw.

squeezelouise400 · Feb 16, 2019

At your stage 2, inform them that Diabetes is covered by the equality act. Any employer with any sense will back away and see this as a warning to them.

Debbie_p · Apr 28, 2019

squeezelouise400 said:
At your stage 2, inform them that Diabetes is covered by the equality act. Any employer with any sense will back away and see this as a warning to them.

Not Royal Mail they just kept issuing stages and don’t take any condition into a count like feet operation and say diabeties isn’t covered by disability act am begin to give up

DCUKMod · Apr 28, 2019

Debbie_p said:
Not Royal Mail they just kept issuing stages and don’t take any condition into a count like feet operation and say diabeties isn’t covered by disability act am begin to give up

Debbie - In many instance Type 2 diabetes isn't considered a disability in the same way as Type 1. It partly depends on the type of medication you take, and whetyher you have any significant complications of your T2.

I don't know what sort of operation you had, or if the operation was related to your diabetes at all, but if you are a member of a union, it could be useful to engage with them as soon as possible.

Employer and time off - I’M REALLY FED UP

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