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Employer and time off - I’M REALLY FED UP

Discussion in 'Jobs and Employment' started by robotears, Jan 31, 2019.

  1. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    Hi haven’t been on the forum for a while - not great at these things ...
    I was diagnosed type 1 four and a half years ago, and since then my employer has just never been able to understand why I need to go to appointments. I usually either have to use up all of my holiday time (surely this is bordering on discriminatory) or make the time up. I’ve been through it so many times that I know that it’s not quite DDA worthy as Diabetes isn’t serious enough to warrant some sort of support
    The other issue is that when I get ill with it really floors me. Ive tried explaining this to them but it’s coming down to a ‘computer says no’ scenario...
    So I’ve been subject to a ‘stage 1’ warning due to having more than 3 absences in a 12 month period since last July. Having had a day off in August, September and just yesterday I’m now about to have a ‘stage 2’ interview. This is really getting me down now...it feels like an attack that I just cannot defend against.
     
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  2. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Have you been in touch with a union rep?
     
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  3. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I do believe you cannot be fired on health related grounds. Though employers can find other excuses.

    Try ACAS. They know the answers with this sort of thing. I have personally spoken to ACAS and they are very helpful and useful too.
     
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  4. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    No union representation for me and I believe there’s an issue joint retrospectively...
    I’ve had problems all along and so don’t think I can go in that direction.
     
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  5. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    *issue joining
     
  6. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    It feels like they’re trying to get rid of me on absences ☹️
     
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  7. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/discrimination-workplace

    This link may help you, but it is so sad to read that another person with type 1 diabetes is being discriminated against in the workplace, it is unfair and unjust. Because diabetes is not visible, like a broken bone or someone in a wheelchair, many think it's just a small inconvenience, no big deal and we should just get on with it................. :( Is there someone in HR that you could speak to, as stress, anxiousness and worry can put BS number's up considerably ?
    Take care
     
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    #7 Robinredbreast, Jan 31, 2019 at 1:11 PM
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  8. Juicyj

    Juicyj Type 1 · Moderator
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    Sorry to hear of this @robotears This is classed as discrimination, as your employer needs to make reasonable adjustments for you, @Robinredbreast has linked to some useful information, please also try calling their helpline to discuss:
    Call: 0345 123 2399 Monday to Friday, 9am to 6pm

    Good luck, please let us know how you get on ?
     
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  9. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    Thank you...I’ll be reading over this and probably going back to ACAS then as also mentioned above...going back as I’d previously contacted them when it got really bad 2 years ago.

    Jeepers! Why does it have to be so flipping hard? Feeling so unmotivated by these people
     
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  10. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    www.diabetes.org.uk/resources-s3/migration/pdf/Employment-advocacy-pack-2013.pdf - another link
     
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  11. Juicyj

    Juicyj Type 1 · Moderator
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    I know it's hard @robotears and it's support you need not brick walls, please stick with it, they cannot continue to treat you so badly, just make sure you get all the information you need to stand your ground with them, they will back down once they understand that it's unfair treatment, however it shouldn't happen in the first place, ring the number as per my previous post as well as calling ACAS, it's best to get as much guidance as you can so your case is a strong one.
     
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  12. Robinredbreast

    Robinredbreast Type 1 · Oracle

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    I agree with Juicyj, you do need to stand your ground, but I know that can be a hard thing to do. You do need all the help, advice and supports that you can get to in with the right ammunition, knowledge and assertiveness. People just don't understand the condition and what we have to do, day in and day out, to stay on an even keel. GOOD LUCK
     
  13. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I strongly suggest that you get a copy of your employer's rules on absence.
    Read them thoroughly before your meeting, and make sure that you understand them.

    Where I work, everyone (and I do mean EVERYONE) is expected to take routine health appts to doc or nurse as annual leave, or flexi.
    However, all hospital appts, including travel time, is not taken as hol, and the employer swallows the loss.

    Likewise, EVERYONE is subject to the 1st and 2nd stage absence classifications, and 3 absences within a specified length of time escalates you to 1st stage. Then further absence within a specified length of time will escalate to 2nd stage.

    These are implemented rigidly, and are as much to protect the employee as the manager and the employer.

    HOWEVER, within these rigid rules, there is a fair amount of wiggle room, depending on the people and the situation.

    For example, at my place of work, there would be no point whatsoever kicking off about being put at stage 1 or stage 2. Those are totally non-negotiable. However, once there, there is significant leeway, with recognition of Health and Safety, HR rules, personal health history, medical evidence, and good communication on both sides, to get a good, supportive working arrangement together.

    As an example, one colleague with significant disabilities and several health issues agreed a personalised plan involving extra equipment, more flexible hours, and a home working schedule for part of the week. All of this was only accessible to him and his managers because he had reached stage 2 and been properly assessed as needing extra support. This package enabled him to stay working significantly longer than he expected, as his health deteriorated.
     
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  14. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    Thanks @Brunneria, I’ve had an hour or so to simmer on it and this is very much like my situation. The frustration has arisen because I feel like I’ve been over this many many times and not a single thing has really been done by my employer to support me in it, and not do they ever seem to listen to what I can tell them about it. I mean...how many T1s can really explain what’s going on and what all of the implications are?
    I feel under pressure to make this a situation that is solvable for them...
     
  15. robotears

    robotears Type 1 · Member

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    This bit:

    For example, at my place of work, there would be no point whatsoever kicking off about being put at stage 1 or stage 2. Those are totally non-negotiable. However, once there, there is significant leeway, with recognition of Health and Safety, HR rules, personal health history, medical evidence, and good communication on both sides, to get a good, supportive working arrangement together.


    ...the thing about being put onto these ‘stage 1’ etc things is that it’s just adding to a level of stress. The overall feeling I get from this is like I’m being treated like a child who’s telling porkies.
     
  16. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    @Listlad - Whilst unpalatable to all parties, it is possible to lawfully manage an employee out of a company. It is not usually plausible to have members, particularly long term sick, retained ad infinitum just because they aren't well. Businesses must be able to continue to operate, and few employers these days have much slack in the amount of work needing to be done, versus number of employees.

    @robotears - As @Brunneria states, these excalating processes are very commonplace these days, and ensures fair playwith everyone being treated the same.

    Your employer is required to allow you time to attend medical appointments, provided reasonable notice is given to him, however he is not obliged to pay you for the time you have off, so making up the time is quite reasonable, and more palatable than the time being unpaid.

    Your employer will have a written sickness policy (often called something natty like Managing Absense). Ensure you have read and understood it carefully.
     
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  17. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    What are you trying to achive? What reasonable adjustment would you like your employer to make, and how would those adjustments impact your situation?
     
  18. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    I do know of one good example of where it was the case that a sick employee was employed by the company (my employing company at the time) until his dying day. After a certain point in time he could no longer work and was paid a reduced salary from then on in. I don’t know if this was because it was in Scotland though. I knew the chap as a work colleague and knew the chap that kept in touch with him once he was no longer working. I also saw our departmental head count each week and his name was always on it despite not working in any capacity.

    I do understand that smaller companies have less wriggle room though.

    My wife’s employing company also employ at least two handicapped individuals who’s capacity to do the job is limited and understand that in the past at least this has been a mandatory thing for employers (again I think company size might have a bearing on this).

    ACAS would surely know for sure.

    Lawfully managing someone out of a company is certainly what happens, though.
     
    #18 Listlad, Jan 31, 2019 at 6:15 PM
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  19. DCUKMod

    DCUKMod I reversed my Type 2 · Expert
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    It can happen, but unless the employee's contract states he would be employed, such as your friend/colleague/acquaintance, an employer is not obliged to retain them.

    My old employer, for longstanding employees (longstanding was defined by the date of their employment), also retained employees until they died, retired or recovered. This cost was covered by an insured arrangement, but it is an arrangement which is very rare.

    People with disabilities can expect their employers to make reasonable adjustments to accommodate them, but reasonable applies to both employer and employee.

    The documents that are important to @robotears are his employment contract, his employer's policy for managing absences, ideally a copy of the sickness record they hold for him, plus the documentation sent and received between both parts, as those will be the official records.

    ACAS are certainly very useful, but I don't believe they will offer legal advice, other than as a general rule. For truly personalised advice either a union, if availabel, or a solicitor are the way forward.

    I do hope all turns out well for you @robotears , but these things can be convoluted and take a long time to resolve.
     
  20. manion

    manion Prediabetes · Active Member

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    Hi

    I employ a type 1 diabetic and as this is a chronic condition needing continuous treatment and maintenance of the condition the person receives protection under the disability act.

    It is against the law for an employer to discriminate, treat differently, discipline or dismiss an employee for the condition however a long and drawn out process under capability can be brought but this has to be totally proven outside of just the time taken to service the condition.

    I look after my employee who is type 1 as I understand the condition and realise it is not anything other than management of the condition that causes the odd incident at work and doctors appointments that need to be attended (I was pre diabetic but low carb and exerclsise has at the moment reversed this).

    I would at the meeting tell them that you as a disabled employee with a chronic condition is being discriminated against and that you require a cessation of the aggressive attack on you when the rest of your employment is exemplary (providing it is) and that you will seek retribution from an employment tribunal should the discrimination continue.

    Just my thoughts but hope it helps.
     
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