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experimenting with food

S

sparkles

Well-Known Member
Messages
170
Hi,
I did a daft thing today. I was reading some posts on this site this morning and came across one with a link to the low carb mega store. So I went there and browsed trying to learn a bit more about low carb foods and alternaives etc. Of cause I gravitated towards the chocolate section and struggled with the sizes and prices of things but felt happy to know these NAS chocolates are there if I get THAT desperate.

Anyhow, the result of this search was that it made me focus on the sweet foods Ive been trying to forget (quite easily) all week. AND THAT MADE ME HUNGRY!
Normally I have an egg style lunch but today I indulged in oatcakes topped with a bit of left over stirfry and cream cheese. I was ravenous and meant to stop after 3 but ended up eating 5. (I also noticed the oat cakes had less carbs than my rice cakes which suprised me, but both were sinful as not part of Atkins foundation stage.) I felt guilty as I felt Id gourged by not stopping at 3. Still not satisfied and thinking about sweets and chocolate I decided to experiment and gourge even further.

I got a small cup and put in it a tablespoon or two of dessicatd coconut and a similar amount of ground almonds I threw in about 10 raisins and a dolup of tesco own brand soft creme cheese. ( I realised its quite low carb I think. 1/2pk (=100gms of the 200gm pack) containes only 3.8gms of carbohydrate and I used only a teaspoonful.(so a fraction of the 3.8gm) But it worked great as a binder and made a thick paste.

My plan was to roll it into balls and make myself some sweets

- but I ate it before I got that far (and very nice it was too. ) :roll:
before I had my indulgent 5 oatcakes and home made sweets my BG was 5.2. two hours later it was 5.8. up 0.6
I think thats not too bad is it? if so staved off my first sweet cravings.

Anyone else have any new ideas for sweet treats? When I can add fruits and nuts back I am definately going to experiment big time.
Sparkles.
 
Oat cakes are great and only 4g of carbs each, they are especially nice with some low-fat cheese spread!

Nigel
 
Hi Catherinecherub,

Just read that article and now I’m confused. ....But I didn’t sin with high carbs did I like that Dr…he took alcohol and bread and fruit juices and stuff.

Also noticed Sarah Breweris one of the three Drs, she is the one whose book inspired this journey I’m on.
So what is the article actually saying?
And when was this BBC Atkins trial?

I mean there is cheating and there is CHEATING I suppose. The idea is to stay away from high carbs I think… heavily processed foods and bread spuds rice etc.

I did that even though I was experimenting I think -in that I thought about the things I was mixing. but I admit to being a learner.

So am I way off the mark?
Can anyone help rid me of my own little seed of doubt?

SPARKLES
 
We might have interpreted it differently.
I read it that if you cheated with any of those things as opposed to all of them, you shouldn't.

I wasn't trying to make you have doubts, just thought it was interesting.
 
Hi Catherinecherub,
no problem... Im on a steep learning curb. So...You saying 'just dont cheat: full stop?'
Well if so ...I guess where I went wrong was having oatcakes, coconut, raisins, and ground almonds none of which are included in the foundation stage. ooops.

Hmmm..

but hey it was good.
and it wasn't a bar of chocolate or a slice of bread.

but you are right Catherine Cherub...
I should get back on task and continue learning to love my veg. (and fats and proteins.)
those other things (oatcakes, coconut, raisins and nuts) can come back in at the appropriate time.

Its ok.
SPARKLES
 
Hi Sparkles,

I wouldn't presume to tell anyone what they should and should not do.
I wasn't trying to interfere in how you decide to follow your diet. I do know that lots of research has been done and it is the low calorie effect on the Induction phase of Atkins that gets your weight moving in the beginning.
Trials were done with twins, one on the Atkins and one on a calorie controlled diet. There was a very slight difference, a tiny amount in favour of the Atkins. Will try and dig out the paper.
 
The BBC trial was in 2003, and if I remember rightly, went with a Horizon programme (or similar) which featured throughout an extremely fat man, sitting in a chair, solemnly munching his way through a piece of cheese that must have weighed 2lbs! A full 7 days' allowance on Atkins Induction. I found the programme, which was screened after I'd been on Induction for a few months, very negative if not misleading.

I would have liked to ask some questions of the participants in the trial, or seen the full transcription of that interview and the results.

The basic philosophy behind Atkins is that everyone can tolerate different amounts of carbs, but everyone should lose weight on Induction, at 20g carb daily. After that you increase your carb intake very gradually, until you find the level where you start to put weight on again. For some people that might be over 150g or more each day. For me, it's nearer 70g. So if you cheat by eating too much carb, the weight loss stops. NB it is not unusual for anyone's weight, but particularly females', to go up and down a little bit as your system gets accustomed to the new way of eating. DON'T panic if the odd pound goes on - just keep on with the diet and it will go away again. Don't worry if you stop losing, or 'plateau', occasionally - just your body catching its breath before the next bit!

I don't understand the comment in the press release about high fat/high carb being 'dangerous'. In my experience its only 'danger' is the amount of weight you put on with that combination - a longer-term danger, rather than immediate.

Alcohol is a no-no on Atkins because (he says, and I don't know the science behind this) that your body simply stops running on ketones and starts running on alcohol instead, even no-carb alcohol such as gin. So the weight loss stops until you've used up all the alcohol. This is something to do with my own present slower weight loss - I haven't managed to give up the wine completely, this time.

However, alcohol also helps relieve constipation (and the NHS dietician confirmed this for me) by flushing water out of the system into the gut, and by relaxing sphincters so the bowel can void. It works for me! if all else fails I have a couple of glasses of wine.

Constipation can be a side-effect of Induction, and Atkins gives suggestions for avoiding it. I don't understand how the doctor in the trial managed to get so badly constipated as to be (apparently) near-death, in just 4 weeks - particularly if he was drinking alcohol (see above). He is a doctor, so he should have had some idea what to do. Was he drinking enough water? Why didn't he up his fibre intake with (eg) bran? or go for liver salts or some other remedy? I don't think, on the evidence presented in the press release, that his agony was purely to do with the diet.

Finally - triglycerides (bad cholesterol) can increase slightly at the beginning of a low-carb diet, because they get freed-up out of the fat cells into the bloodstream as you start burning fat in ketosis. But they should go down again, all else being equal. After 6 months on Atkins last time, mine were 0.65 - which is pretty good!

Don't beat yourself up over the odd slip - we're all human! Do try to get hold of a second-hand copy of the book (Dr Atkins' New Diet Revolution). It's not well written, but all the information you need is there, if you read it from cover to cover. Worth doing!

Atkins is long-term. Have patience. Stick to it, and it will work. As I've said somewhere else, this time I'm not obsessing about the weight loss, but concentrating on the undoubted good, by the evidence of my meter, that it's doing to my blood glucose levels.

Viv 8)

PS re CatherineCherub's post, above - the first 4 weeks I did Atkins originally I calorie-counted my food intake (I'm very good at that, after decades of practice!) and I was eating between 1400 and 2000 calories a day, following the diet exactly. I lost 14lbs in the first two weeks, a lot of which, as with any diet at all, was fluid) and a further 8 lbs in the next - 22lbs in four weeks. After that, still on Induction, I stabilised at a steady 2lb per week with the odd plateau. There is no reason for Atkins to be a very-low-calorie diet.
 
Hi sparkles,

I think you are doing the right thing by experimenting what suits you and what doesn't. If certain foods don't send your bs too high afterwards then it obviously works for you.

Keep up the good work and keep us posted if you find anymore sweet treats :lol: :lol: :lol:

Josie
 
Thanks, Phoenix, that's an interesting article. It seems to show that the success of any diet depends on motivation - which I think any long-term serial dieter will agree with! And which diet works for you depends on you as an individual - I will readily agree that low-carb doesn't suit everyone. Nice to know that they don't think it's (short-term) dangerous.

I was lucky when I first went on Atkins in that my GP supported me (out of curiousity, I think) and our practice nurse was happy for me to go in weekly for BP and weight to be checked, which gave me good support. Also after the first 2 months I got a dog, so my exercise increased from very little to walking at least 20 miles per week. Atkins does insist on exercise, which is often overlooked. The fact that I achieved such good results (I set myself a target of 50lb loss in the first 6 months, and exceeded it) kept me motivated.

I 'fell off' the diet when I moved house, for a number of reasons - no cooker for the first 4 weeks didn't help! Other reasons were stress, unhappiness, new job, having to re-home the dogs so little exercise. Once I was off it I found it very difficult to get back on, because I could see no reason to take care of myself. With me, dieting is emotional and psychological as much as anything else. Eating and drinking is my self-destruct mechanism.

My Type 2 diagnosis coincided with yet another house move, and retirement. I am now more able to concentrate on my lifestyle, albeit on a limited income. The diabetes has given me the motivation I needed - so it's not all bad!

I seem to have hi-jacked your thread a bit, Sparkles, for which I apologise. For you, with Atkins Induction, I can only suggest you try to stick exactly to the diet for the first 2 weeks; time for experimenting when you get on to the next phase! It's easier for me because I live alone, so I have nothing in the house that I can't eat, and it's a 20-mile round trip to the nearest shop! (which makes those bottles of wine even more expensive! :shock: )

Viv 8)
 
Hi Catherinecherub,
I’m sure you weren’t (trying to interfere in how I follow my diet), It’s fine. ….It was my guilt speaking when I was doubting! What’s more the article you posted made me think and by doing that you did me one big favour! … as I doubled my resolve to carry on and to get back on track. (Although I admit to a bit of a worry wobble before I got there.)

I have read one Atkins book and I think I know what its asking of me and I had decided yes I can cope with this. (unlike any previous attempt to diet on low fat type diets.) And I wasn’t missing sweets or craving them until I looked at the low carb websites selling low carb chocolate and sweets. That just reminded me about my old habits. I’ve Just been talking to my partner about ‘health foods’ and ‘whole foods’ and kind of dropped the penny about the difference there. Yes its important to me not to deviate too much during induction. The book does say don’t beat yourself up if you do deviate -just get back on track. So that’s what I’m doing. In your article the Dr deviated with very high carb things like bread and alcohol and it stressed in the article that this is not just bad but very dangerous. (so I learned that too) I’m still holding off weighing myself because I don’t want to get hung up on that aspect of the diet. I can see I’m losing weight as it is showing in my face. I am watching my Blood glucose levels going down to well within normal range and that’s happened so fast it’s pleasantly surprising. Perhaps you can post the twin research paper if you find it- I’d be interested.

But just to round off : I have been very good today diet-wise especially due to my new resolve. I live rural and walked for THREE HOURS to a Lidl supermarket and back this morning. (my feet ache now!) again bought some things I have never cooked before… (pak choi and sum choi? On offer £1.00each ) (I’ve had them in restaurants so know the taste) as well as stocking up on chillies, garlic, Aubergine and (4fresh chicken breasts (£1.99)). My partner loves making curry so he got the job of currying the chicken and I made a veg stirfry, but earlier in the day I also made Baba Ganoush with the aubergines… I got the recipe very recently -perhaps from this website? …Sooo easy! And yummy too. I don’t know what you eat it with normally but having yoghurt in it -it was great for me with the curry as a substitute for the missing rice -to tone the curry down. And in all of that I think a teaspoon of tahini was the only thing not allowed on the foundation stage. Boy….. That was my best meal this week! And I imagine since mostly vegetables very low carb. So a great recipe for foundation stage when other foods haven’t yet been added back.

Sparkles
Thanks Catherinecherub!
 
Well if the trial was in 2003 that makes sense to me. Dr Sarah Brewer, one of the three Drs wrote the book my son bought me for my birthday (Natural approaches to diabetes ) in 2005. I believe from what I read on the net Atkins diet was at its most popular in 2005 too. So the trial happened before that peak in popularity. And Dr Brewer faired well in the trial so perhaps she became a Low carb diet convert then?

Thanks for that explanation and advice Vivienne -very useful. Yes I wonder what is meant by dangerous high carb AND high fat. I suppose that could be my diet before I started Atkins lol and I suppose I know why THAT was dangerous really especially when combined with over eating generally. :roll: Interesting that the no-carb alcohol also stops ones body running on ketones -its all so scientific isn’t it. I’ve heard some excuses Vivienem! :wink: Hmmm.. Yes , the Dr’s constipation… it makes you wonder if he was Anti Atkins all along and out to sabotage… or like you say, perhaps had other unknown complications.

Thanks for the tryglcerides tip, shall watch them! Yes… I’m on the look out for a copy of New diet revolution, it will come eventually. You did so well.. I hope it happens like that for me!

Re your nest post:
I totally agree about motivation… it has to be there doesn’t it. I’ve never had it (motivation) for DIETS. Food is just so lovely and though I’d always loved the idea of the elusive slimness my limited engagements with diets in the past (-always low fat diets ) had such a negative affect on me; miserable from feeling hungry, lack of positive support, not being able to dose on chocolate when my day was ****** and the awful sense of failure one gets after repeatedly giving in and failing…. etc. etc. I just feel so positive about it this time and yet I’m still not allowed chocolate. Its odd. Reading Dr Brewers book certainly helped. I lost the guilt (of diet failure) when I learned about the roll insulin plays in storing fat and stopping the breakdown of it. How as you become insulin resistant weight goes on and stays on. How portion sizes even things bought in the shops have rocketed over time and we are all eating more -just some bodies cope where others don't. I don’t get hungry on this diet. I’m feeling positive from the learning and enjoying trying new food (vegetables) and Im amazed at my BG level drop.

I guess all that accounts for why my motivation levels are so high this time. Support and success enrich motivation I guess. Low carb for me!- (but we are all different.) Looks like your conditions stopped being supportive to you Viviennem and perhaps that made you feel a failure and lose motivation and so lose your way? Lets face it dieting IS emotional especially if your relationship with food and drink (like mine) is about (LOVING IT(food and drink)) and denial of it (food and drink)through diet (-especially if its because you know you are only denying yourself what you love (food and drink) because THEY (whoever THEY are) think you are fat and they don’t like you fat.
- Well isn’t that just pure psychology?

Truth is WE ALL NEED TO TAKE CARE OF OURSELVES = caring about ourselves.

But its not that easy for everyone all of the time. (and for some of us, like me, (at least as I was until starting Atkins a week ago) emotionally dependent on cakes and sugar and stodge and dogged by failed attempts and negative thinking its nigh on impossible. Failure breeds failure just like success breed success. Given support and the means to achieve, with motivation I think most people would. (achieve (anything))

Yep… Diabetes should be a wake up call !

especially for those who like me tend to overindulge on all the wrong things, Diabetes is serious. My son said when he gave me the book; “Mum, if someone told you you had cancer you’d try and do something about it wouldn’t you? “ At the time I thought he was a bit over the top and I thought… Hmmm… bit of a boring birthday present this… a book about treating diabetes naturally. My diabetes, just like my idea of diets, was just a dratted and unwelcome inconvenience.

But Actually his statement and the book are both very powerful and given time to sink in I now think it’s the best birthday present ever!

Good advice there Vivienne (...and please, feel free to hijack!) …If I experiment I need to keep it to experimenting with the foundation level ingredients don’t I .
(…no more fruity sweets just yet then.)
(but watch this space!)

...20 miles! you must be even more rural than me!
SPARKLES
 
The trial results are interesting Phoenix thanks.
Given that Atkins participants worked alone from a book while the others joined clubs like weight watchers which would be more social I think the Atkins lot did quite well. The fact that the BBC paid for things like enrolment and expenses would affect personal choices I think. And perhaps that’s why so many Atkins dieters moved to the other more social weight loss group programmes when given the chance at 6 months in. Given the discussion re motivation and having the support as well as the means (posts above) I’m not surprised that (with expenses paid by BBC!) people gravitated towards a weight loss club away from Atkins. Is support from a book as good as support from other people? Dunno..
Today though, for those for whom money (or lack of it) is a big issue (and lets face it with over 50% of the UK population classed as obese there must be a fair few who are also poor in pocket …to buy a book is the cheaper and therefore a more reachable option than to subscribe weekly to a club and buy its products. Myself.. I didn’t even buy a book I went to the library.

Thanks Josie…..
My son also put some nakd bars in with my birthday book. The ingredients were simply ground cashews, coco powder and coconut I think… cant be that hard to make. (it probably subconsciously inspired my experiment.) There are other flavours of these bars in the supermarket (but at over £1.00 per small bar not in my price range.) I keep meaning to pick them up and see what ‘s in them. ….Ideas for future experiments. :idea:
But not just now I’m being good. :roll:
SPARKLES
 
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