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This doesn't address anything I've asked you, nor does it stand as evidence for any of your claims.
This doesn't address anything I've asked you, nor does it stand as evidence for any of your claims.The evidence pure and simply is raised blood glucose levels, ie it's not where it's supposed to be. Without Insulin resistance it would be within the cells.
Well I certainly wholly agree with this last paragraph!As a "nutrition geek" one would have thought you might have a bit more intellectual curiosity about where the excess calories went.
I suspect your brain thought it was consuming more calories, but actually wasn't. That and an increase in expenditure some of which probably came from from protein digestion put you in a technical deficit.
Agreed on the control - low carb is proven to decrease ghrelin and thus hunger, plus increase satiety so you feel full faster and longer. Overall a win.
I'm not threatened by your statement because I know the truth. The calories in/calories out method only works when bodies work well.
In a sample of one - yourself - it really doesn't matter what anyone (including I) think. You are losing the weight you want and getting the result you want. The facts are correct - for you.I guess if I ate 3000+ calories a day, even keto calories, I may gain weight. After many years of calorie counting though, I don't have a huge appetite. But if I have 1500 calories of mixed carbs, fat and protein I gain weight. Fact. With 1500 calories of low carb food I don't gain weight. Fact.
You need to understand what it has been like for people like @Outlier and me. I had years of doctors and nurses telling me to lose weight, but the Eatwell Plate combined with calorie counting didn't work. Adding a 2 mile walk every day didn't help either. When I told the HCPs this they accused me of cheating, lying and forgetting I had snacks. I knew the truth. I was weighing food and calculating calories with the help of 3 calorie counting books. No PCs back then, no smart phones, just scales, pen, paper and calculator. A few years back my GP was training for a marathon. I regularly met him when I was about a mile from home on my 2 mile walk. He stopped telling me to get more exercise after that.
When I told my nurse that I realised drinks with artificial sweeteners actually made me gain weight long term, the nurse said with a knowing look 'that's because you think you have done well to save calories and compensate by eating more'.
Wrong, I weighed and counted every calorie.
So I struggled on for years, eating less and less and moving more. Eventually I got ill, catching every virus going and getting ever fatter, until that bout of flu in 2007 when I realised the madness of what I was doing.
I then ate as much as I wanted of good nutritious food, until I stumbled on the idea of low carbing. Around a year or so after that I found this forum...and found I wasn't the only one for whom calorie counting didn't work.
So you see, I am well used to people saying I must have cheated or counted calories wrong, it's just irritating when fellow diabetics don't believe me.
But hey when the famine happens I will be the last one standing as my metabolism is so good at running on just a little fuel.
Oh I see. You yourself were slack in calorie counting so you assume I and others were too.Interesting - so you reason that for non-diabetics CICO works - but for diabetics, it doesn't and diabetics can't lose weight in a calorie deficit?
In a sample of one - yourself - it really doesn't matter what anyone (including I) think. You are losing the weight you want and getting the result you want. The facts are correct - for you.
I had a similar situation. Lost about 30kg using pure CICO (just for reference, i'm 6'4") - but then the weight loss stopped. I was on a 500-1000 kcal a day deficit. But the weight loss stopped. As some people commonly suggest - my metabolism may have "slowed down". I had to check - so I went into London to a clinic to have my RMR professionally tested. This test is done while in a rested and fasted state, you lie down comfortable on a bed and put a face mask on you to measure all your CO2 output (watch the video I posted above so you can see the relevance of this). This is a similar test they do on athletes called the VO2 Max, except in that case they measure CO2 while pushing the athlete to their maximum endurance (usually on a treadmill or stationary bicycle).
In the end - my RMR was roughly 2000 calories a day. I couldn't believe it - it had to be wrong - so I complained and they did the test for me again some weeks later. Came up the same - 2000 calories. I was flabbergasted. How could I not be losing weight? I decided to double down on the diet and track a bit better. In the end, I was indeed getting slack with my calorie counting. I had been doing it for over a year, and just wasn't paying as much attention. I started losing weight again, until I went off the wagon, stopped tracking in MyFitnessPal - and gained it back.
Adherence is everything when it comes to diet!
Well, that's my story. This all happened before the T2D diagnosis.
Oh I see. You yourself were slack in calorie counting so you assume I and others were too.
Your situation was nothing like mine. I was gaining weight on ever decreasing calories.
Let's look at the calorie deficit argument in another way.
I agree if you consume too many calories and aren't in deficit you won't lose weight.
I'd say the calories are important from a blood glucose POV - but to lose weight - technically it is less important. I say less because protein takes 30% of the input calories just to digest - but I put that in the calories-out column. Even on a CICO diet, it is recommended to eat plenty of protein for this reason and satiety.However where those calories come from is important to T2s. I can be in deficit on low carb and keto and lose weight. I can be in the same deficit on a mixed diet including carbs and not lose weight, in fact I often gain whilst technically in deficit if I have too many carbs. This is why I say CICO often doesn't work for T2s, it's more complicated than simply being in deficit.
Adherence is important when it comes to diet but sometimes it is important to mix things around a bit to stop your body adjusting to the regime and refusing to play ball.
Unfortunately any diabetic who isn't T1 or T1.5 is generally labelled T2, so those labelled as T2 may not be a classic T2 and therefore won't necessarily have experienced what I have.Again - I can't see how someone can actually gain weight when they are in an energy deficit.
Insulin doesn't explain how you gain mass on a calorie deficit. Where does the energy required to create that mass come from?Unfortunately any diabetic who isn't T1 or T1.5 is generally labelled T2, so those labelled as T2 may not be a classic T2 and therefore won't necessarily have experienced what I have.
I am a classic type 2. I had insulin resistance for many years before T2 diagnosis. Insulin is a fat building hormone. Insulin resistance stops the insulin being used effectively so the pancreas pumps out more. T2 is only diagnosed when the pancreas can't keep up and BGs start to go up.
The media gives the impression that being fat causes T2, in fact it's the other way round, IR (T2) causes someone to put on weight as more and more insulin is produced to cope with carb intake. That's how I gained weight on a technical calorie deficit. The carbs in my diet required alot of insulin which only made the problem worse. I wish I had known this 30+ years ago.
Robots cannot break the laws of thermodynamics. Humans are much more complicated than that. There is none so blind as those who will not see.In the end it is the final result that matters to you. It sounds like keto helped you properly keep calories under your TDEE without counting. I think this is one of the biggest benefits of low carb way of eating. Tracking is tedious and eventually when you stop, it stops working.
Humans cannot break the laws of thermodynamics.
I'm open to debate and learning something new. Please point me to some peer reviewed evidence which shows that humans break the laws of thermodynamics.Robots cannot break the laws of thermodynamics. Humans are much more complicated than that. There is none so blind as those who will not see.
Fortunately, even without.a huge deficit we can create enough of a buffer to account for the variables that not being a bomb calorimeter introduces.The complicated part is calculating the calories in and calories out.
In other words, it is easier to keep a calorie deficit with a low carb diet. Agree completely.Fortunately, even without.a huge deficit we can create enough of a buffer to account for the variables that not being a bomb calorimeter introduces.
It is also easier to keep a calorie deficit with a high carb low fat diet as it's harder to overeat on carbs if you have very little fat.In other words, it is easier to keep a calorie deficit with a low carb diet. Agree completely.
Not necessarily. If you're someone who finds low-carb/keto satiating then yes. I don't. Fortunately, satiety isn't just a hormonal and/or protein issue.In other words, it is easier to keep a calorie deficit with a low carb diet. Agree completely.
Oh dear, more assumptions that your way is the only way. It is also easier to keep a calorie deficit with a high carb low fat diet as it's harder to overeat on carbs if you have very little fat.
I've not heard this before - but if it works for someone to keep a deficit - then go for it. Probably ideal for vegans.Not necessarily. If you're someone who finds low-carb/keto satiating then yes. I don't. Fortunately, satiety isn't just a hormonal and/or protein issue.
Our stomachs are lined with stretch receptors which expand when we are full. Eating larger amounts of bulkier, low-calorie density foods can help with the expansion and stretching. The work of Barbara Rolls relating to volumetrics expounds on this idea of eating low-clorie density foods.I've not heard this before - but if it works for someone to keep a deficit - then go for it. Probably ideal for vegans.
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