Fluctuating BG Levels

@13lizanne , be interested to see what answers you get for this. What would you say are fluctuating levels and over what time period and those that are steady but slightly too high?
I don't have any references to support this but the drift I get from reading is that steady is best.

13lizanne said:

Yes, I believe the steady levels are best but what if they are slightly higher than NICE guidelines? I was just thinking - over the past couple of days my levels were swinging from 4.7- over 8 and I felt rotten usually they are pretty steady at 4.5-5.5 usually lowest after exercise and hovering around 5 before and after meals and I feel really well. My friend has steady levels around 7-9 and he says he feels fine on this. But I thought damage could start at 7.8 and over? I asked this question out of just curiosity really.

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For me, my endeavour is to keep my levels within the non-diabetic ranges, and thus far, my body is able to cope with that, with my chosen lifestyle. If that became impossible, for whatever reason, I'd, personally, want them as low, and steady, as I could maintain, again within my chosen lifestyle.

People are all different in terms of how their body copes with what life throws at it, and also the individual's chosen way of eating. Not everyone is willing to give up, say, bread or crisps, and whilst I'm fine pretty much living without either of those, not everybody is.

The future is a gamble. My gamble is that I carry on as I'm doing now, when perhaps I could relax things a bit more and still have decent enough scores. Someone else may elect to gamble eating a wider range of foods, involving some things I choose not to bother with, in order to have, for them, a "better", more normalised life today, gambling their body will continue to cope with the choices over a longer term.

Finally, feeling "fine" is all very subjective. One man's (or woman's) "fine" is another's "dragging myself along". "Fine" is where I measure my personal "normal". Feeling fine is where most people decribe their ticking over state. How many people have we seen arrive here "feeling fine", then some weeks later they "feel so much better, with more energy, better sleeping" or whatever?

I'm not suggesting for a moment your friend is unwell or being economical with the truth in terms of how he feels, just saying it's based on how he usually feels, doing what he usually does. He might feel better or worse if he tweaked his lifestyle. Who knows.

Well I discussed this with my endocrinologist and he said to me basically it's the hbA1c that they are looking at which gives them what your average sugar levels have been for the past 60 days. He said they're fully aware that are sugar levels can fluctuate and fall out of normal range which he said is just part of dealing with the disease. There are times where you try your hardest and you still get a number you don't like on your meter. So since he's said that to me I've been a bit more relaxed with not stressing out over the one off number on my meter and more focused on trying to get a better average number.

13lizanne said:

I know that for optimum health we should try to keep our BG levels as steady as possible. Out of curiosity, which do you think more dangerous to health - fluctuating levels or levels which are steady but slightly too high? I've looked for research on this with little success so far.

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Once again, it depends on the individual and how wide the range is.
For example, your levels quoted on your other post are not that bad really, your body is getting used to normal levels again, so any rise above normal you will feel it.
It is better to keep in the normal level range, if at all possible, especially for us RH ers.
As this is when, we function at optimum performance.
Being level, gives us better health and the symptoms disappear, the longer the period of normal blood glucose levels the better, the more health improvements there is.
And if you want to lose weight, then that helps with that as well.
However, diabetics especially T2 do get used to higher levels and some don't get the symptoms. They have fluctuations but not extreme ones.
Having prolonged high bloods is when problems start.
Fluctuating between high blood glucose levels and low blood glucose levels is really bad. To go from normal to the teens back to below normal is something I wouldn't wish on anyone. Your body produces all kinds and lots of symptoms, some which have your brain all over the place. It is definitely not recommended.

Having experienced this myself, what I call my hypo hell, I can only recommend that you keep your blood glucose levels near to normal as possible.

I've always preferred to keep my levels stable and as flat as i can - in the belief that this will be kinder to a body that doesn't do glucose management very well. However they were somewhat higher than I would have chosen, and attempts to reduce them tended to cause larger fluctuations, so I assumed that where I was was where my body wanted to be. LCHF had enabled me to keep to non-diabetic post meal levels for the most part but my fasting and pre-meal readings were diabetic level.

But I've recently discovered that it was possibly my long term need to use steroid eye drops that were keeping my levels slightly high: last autumn I noticed a sudden decrease in levels, but I had no idea why. A few weeks ago I had to have a corticosteroid injection in my hand that shot my levels up for several days and some homework on the web told me that this was a known side effect - and also that my eye drops belonged to this same family of steroids. Since I'd also been signed off by the eye clinic earlier last autumn, I'm now fairly certain that this had been the reason for my higher levels. My fasting and pre meal levels have remained at the lower levels and are stable, so I'm feeling that I almost have the best of both worlds.

Robbity

Nosher8355, I'm just wondering why you wouldn't wish it on anyone to go from normal to teens and back to normal again. I do this regularly and have no ill effects. I thought as long as I can get bg levels back down again then my body is still working alright. I thought the problems arose when it's difficult to get bg levels back to normal. I assumed fluctuating was ok as long as the average figure was good. Can someone please explain further and put me right? Thanks

There has been a fair bit of discussion on a thread recently about this (I am tagging you @tim2000s because i think it was one of yours, and you probably have the supporting references! )

From memory, the discussion was about evidence that the bigger the variation between high and low bg levels (standard deviation), the greater risk of complications.

My personal experience is that the more stable i keep my bg, the better i feel.
But having achieved that stability, if i stray outside my personal stable-zone i feel even worse than i used to when my bg was wanging about (technical term) all over the place.

Thanks @Brunneria. It was someone else's topic but I'll try and find a link to the post. You are correct in what you say.

Is the risk of complications not greater if you are constantly running high bg levels rather than occasionally having a high reading?

I think the OP may have mentioned, in another placem that she herself was not feeling quite as "fine" as she had been recently and I wonder if that may have been contributing to her recent less than steady values. If got that wrong, I apologize. Hj

chocoholicnomore said:

Nosher8355, I'm just wondering why you wouldn't wish it on anyone to go from normal to teens and back to normal again. I do this regularly and have no ill effects. I thought as long as I can get bg levels back down again then my body is still working alright. I thought the problems arose when it's difficult to get bg levels back to normal. I assumed fluctuating was ok as long as the average figure was good. Can someone please explain further and put me right? Thanks

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If you have normal fasting bloods pre meal, then going into the teens then something you are eating is not ideal for you.
Even if you are returning to normal, the constant yo yo effect will eventually have adverse effects. Many don't have symptoms but have the high bloods.
By my own experience after two hours your bloods should be back to pre eating levels.
The reason I posted that the wider the range of fluctuating blood glucose levels is that you're really not in control. Controlling your bloods is so crucial to future health.
It will also push up your hba1c average level up.

You may not have the symptoms but it is not recommended to fluctuate wildly, you have to be near to normal as much as possible.
High blood sugars in the teens is not good wether in fluctuation or constant.

I'm very interested in this thread. Thank you @13lizanne for starting it.
I've been looking at the Blood Sugar 101 website and the complications tab makes quite distressing reading. I already have 2 complications and would like to reverse those or at least make sure they don't get any worse.
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/index.php
Even from my reading on this site I still can't answer your question. It would seem high spikes are dangerous and also slighter higher levels are also dangerous.

I am also interested in this thread.

I have followed low carb for 2 years, and during this time have gradually reduced my carbs to VLC. 20g to 30g daily. This has been the case for about 5 months. What has happened to me is this. My previous base level of low 5s with some 4s has all but disappeared. My base level is now 6 to 6.2. I only normally see 5s before evening meal. However, my post meal rises have leveled out, meaning I am normally running in the 6s all day with a few 5s and an odd 7 but not many. This reduction in variances was clearly shown on my Libre sensors (just worn 2, currently having a break).

I am therefore interested to see any evidence that this rise in base levels combined with lower post meal rise is better for me.

This was the topic where we discussed Glycaemic Variation: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/cant-i-eat-what-i-want.98935/