Freestyle libre iPhone app

mikeyd · Jun 15, 2017

Hi all,

So iOS 11 is due out later this year and it seems that apple may have allowed developers to use their NFC (near field communication.....the bit the "could" read a libre sensor).

Does anyone smarter (geekier) than me know if this is likely to come around? Wouldn't it be great if you could scan with your Apple Watch!

Atb
Mike

https://developer.ibm.com/dwblog/2017/nfc-ios-reading-nfc-tags/

tim2000s · Jun 16, 2017

@mikeyd - you'd probably want to ask Abbott that question. It's unlikely that anyone here will have the answer, and I've not heard any rumours so far. But it would certainly widen the market and allow more people to use the Libre more cheaply if they could use an iPhone, don't you think? And it would allow Apple better dominance of the healthcare market to capture all that data in Healthkit!

Brunneria · Jun 16, 2017

This has been rumoured for a looooonnnngggg time.
Would be great if it happens since I would much rather just carry the phone rather than the reader and a phone (wouldn't we all?).

But as for using the apple watch as a reader, in purely practical terms, that would mean we could only wear a reader on the opposite arm to the watch, which I would find very inconvenient.

Ah well, only 6 more months to find out more.

slip · Jun 16, 2017

If Abbott don't produce an iphone app as soon as the NFC is available they are missing a huge trick!

They have already looked at ways to get around the apple nfc issue in the past and did a trial using several different plug-in iphone 'dongle' type devices - I suspect it was a bit clumsy to use and they decided not to push it further, plus I suspect they had promises from Apple that access to the NFC would be coming 'very soon'................2 years later..........and now it is very soon!

What I don't get is:

Brunneria said:
I would much rather just carry the phone rather than the reader and a phone (wouldn't we all?).

I always have 2 things with me, my iphone and my meter, which also happens to be my scanner - as I drive I have to have my meter with me, I'd never just carry my phone. I'd feel naked..........

Mbaker · Jun 16, 2017

A third party company make the app. As it is effectively free to publish on Android and this is the biggest platform, this is why the App is there. There are financial implications for delivering on IOS for developers.

tim2000s · Jun 16, 2017

Mbaker said:
A third party company make the app. As it is effectively free to publish on Android and this is the biggest platform, this is why the App is there. There are financial implications for delivering on IOS for developers.

That's not strictly accurate though. With something like the Libre, it's a combination of the hardware and the App. By all means you can write once to Android and it will work with most Android implementations, but we're already seeing that a fair number of phone hardwares don't work with it all.

At least with the iPhone, they pay up once (and most professional software dev groups already have that apple license) and it works everywhere. No worries about hardware implementations, potential Android variations across provider implementations, etc. Write it once and it will just work on the phone with the one OS level. On something that has 14% market share worldwide and around 25%-30%% in Europe and the 40% in the US, it is a total no-brainer.

db89 · Jun 16, 2017

tim2000s said:
By all means you can write once to Android and it will work with most Android implementations, but we're already seeing that a fair number of phone hardwares don't work with it all.

Just on the Android point.. are they regulated by which handsets they can support 'officially' similar to Dexcom in the US with FDA or are they just not testing enough devices to satisfy their own criteria? I'd probably try a Libre but I don't want another device to cart around for scanning just because my handset isn't graced with official support. I know it would probably work by removing the Play Store check from the APK previously but it's quite a faff on to use something that you're paying for outside of official support.

tim2000s · Jun 16, 2017

db89 said:
Just on the Android point.. are they regulated by which handsets they can support 'officially' similar to Dexcom in the US with FDA or are they just not testing enough devices to satisfy their own criteria? I'd probably try a Libre but I don't want another device to cart around for scanning just because my handset isn't graced with official support. I know it would probably work by removing the Play Store check from the APK previously but it's quite a faff on to use something that you're paying for outside of official support.

The tricky bit with Android, as we've seen with the S8, is that they are all non-standard, as is the OS. Whilst Google has a reference build and architecture (look at the Pixel), each individual manufacturer can put what components they want into a handset and then tweak the OS to run with it.

As a result, the Android ecosystem is really made up of 1,000s of forks of the original OS code, plus multiple older versions that are basically unlimited rather than a single, unified build and a predefined obsolescence model.

The challenge for Abbott, their developer and anyone else building for Android is to test all of these possibilities, so most stick to the most popular phones in the market places they are looking at. Unfortunately, when a new phone appears, it can't always be tested, and so they just have to wait.

mikeyd · Jun 16, 2017

tim2000s said:
@mikeyd - you'd probably want to ask Abbott that question. It's unlikely that anyone here will have the answer, and I've not heard any rumours so far. But it would certainly widen the market and allow more people to use the Libre more cheaply if they could use an iPhone, don't you think? And it would allow Apple better dominance of the healthcare market to capture all that data in Healthkit!

Hi Tim, I tried pinging them an email but haven't heard back. I guess they'd keep cards close to their chests until they've got a marketing plan. HealthKit could be amazing but still falls short seemingly due to corporate niffnaff. I like the idea of having all my medical stuff in one place and easily shareable with my health care team.
Fingers crossed.

Mbaker · Jun 16, 2017

tim2000s said:
That's not strictly accurate though. With something like the Libre, it's a combination of the hardware and the App. By all means you can write once to Android and it will work with most Android implementations, but we're already seeing that a fair number of phone hardwares don't work with it all.

At least with the iPhone, they pay up once (and most professional software dev groups already have that apple license) and it works everywhere. No worries about hardware implementations, potential Android variations across provider implementations, etc. Write it once and it will just work on the phone with the one OS level. On something that has 14% market share worldwide and around 25%-30%% in Europe and the 40% in the US, it is a total no-brainer.

Actually every sentence is completely accurate, I am also an IT Pro. The iPhone is the platform that makes money but in market share it is similar to MAC vs PC.

Scott-C · Jun 17, 2017

If you're desperate to use libre and Apple, Ambrosia Systems have recently started selling a transmitter called Blucon Nightriderwhich is placed in top of libre and bluetooths results every five minutes to a phone. The app LinkBluCon works on Apple phones.Or at least I think it does...sorry, I'm not a phone or Apple geek, but their facebook page mentions iOS.

https://en-gb.facebook.com/ambrosiasys/

Their twitter feed says they're trying to get it to work on Apple watch:
https://twitter.com/ambrosia_sys/status/823462249138294784?lang=en

A word of caution, though, it worked brilliantly for me for the first two days, very close to my meter, but since then they've been way out, like half my meter result. Once read 1.39 when I was really 4.2! It only launched a couple of weeks ago, so looks like there are still teething problems, although I can't rule out the possibility maybe I've just had bad luck with a duff sensor I'll try it again in the last few days of my next sensor. The app is nowhere near as good as LibreLink or the Abbot reader software,but seeingg a list of five minute readings was quite compelling for tracking changing levels..while it worked! Like I say, not convinced by it at the moment, but worth keeping an eye on.

kokhongw · Jun 17, 2017

The observation on the Android platform is that different phone series/models have different NFC chipset. Some of these chipsets are just not compatible with the sensor and tends to break the sensor, not just unable to read it.

For Apple we are assuming that this is less likely to happen...that they will be consistent with their choice of NFC chipset for every model...

Hence the most reliable reader for Abbot is actually to use the intended reader, not the phone app. Then phone app is a bonus.

Perhaps that is why other wearables/monitors in the pipeline seems to be choosing Bluetooth over NFC.

mikeyd · Jun 20, 2017

Scott-C said:
If you're desperate to use libre and Apple, Ambrosia Systems have recently started selling a transmitter called Blucon Nightriderwhich is placed in top of libre and bluetooths results every five minutes to a phone. The app LinkBluCon works on Apple phones.Or at least I think it does...sorry, I'm not a phone or Apple geek, but their facebook page mentions iOS.

https://en-gb.facebook.com/ambrosiasys/

Their twitter feed says they're trying to get it to work on Apple watch:
https://twitter.com/ambrosia_sys/status/823462249138294784?lang=en

A word of caution, though, it worked brilliantly for me for the first two days, very close to my meter, but since then they've been way out, like half my meter result. Once read 1.39 when I was really 4.2! It only launched a couple of weeks ago, so looks like there are still teething problems, although I can't rule out the possibility maybe I've just had bad luck with a duff sensor I'll try it again in the last few days of my next sensor. The app is nowhere near as good as LibreLink or the Abbot reader software,but seeingg a list of five minute readings was quite compelling for tracking changing levels..while it worked! Like I say, not convinced by it at the moment, but worth keeping an eye on.

Thanks Scott, this a pretty interesting alternative, albeit adding to the costs!

alasdair.mitchell · Jul 18, 2017

Hi
I checked out the Ambrosia BluconNightRider system on their website. I asked whether it sent a notification if the BG was gong below / above certain user values and they replied back "No". I didn't feel this was adequate Customer Support and there didn't seem to be any warranty detailed on it.

Is it working any better now or has there been software updates for the App ? How do you keep it attached to the sensor ? (They suggested an armband).
cheers

.

Scott-C said:
If you're desperate to use libre and Apple, Ambrosia Systems have recently started selling a transmitter called Blucon Nightriderwhich is placed in top of libre and bluetooths results every five minutes to a phone. The app LinkBluCon works on Apple phones.Or at least I think it does...sorry, I'm not a phone or Apple geek, but their facebook page mentions iOS.

https://en-gb.facebook.com/ambrosiasys/

Their twitter feed says they're trying to get it to work on Apple watch:
https://twitter.com/ambrosia_sys/status/823462249138294784?lang=en

A word of caution, though, it worked brilliantly for me for the first two days, very close to my meter, but since then they've been way out, like half my meter result. Once read 1.39 when I was really 4.2! It only launched a couple of weeks ago, so looks like there are still teething problems, although I can't rule out the possibility maybe I've just had bad luck with a duff sensor I'll try it again in the last few days of my next sensor. The app is nowhere near as good as LibreLink or the Abbot reader software,but seeingg a list of five minute readings was quite compelling for tracking changing levels..while it worked! Like I say, not convinced by it at the moment, but worth keeping an eye on.

Scott-C · Jul 18, 2017

Hi, @alasdair.mitchell , there's been a couple of app updates for bugfixes, now up to version 2.1.6, and this seems to have ironed out a few glitches.

After the initial novelty of having a new toy to play with wore off, I've not used it that much, maybe about 10 days in total spread over 2 sensors, but certainly, after those 2 glitchy days, and since the app updates, I felt it was working pretty well, usually fairly close to meter, indeed, closer than the reader. It doesn't use the same predictive algorithms as the reader, so there can sometimes be divergent readings during rapid changes just on account of that which can take a bit of getting used to.

For holding it on, I got one of these:
http://www.freestylesticker.de/Produkt/ambrosia-blucon-nightrider-fix/ .The blucon isn't waterproof so you need to take it on and off for showers so the armband is a bit handier than faffing about with big plasters. Used surgical tape for a while but I was getting a mild allergic reaction.

I recall reading something about a warranty period but can't recall how long it was. The construction is fairly decent, solid, and at the end of the day it's just a bit of electronics with a changeable battery so it should last a while.

As you say, it doesn't have alerts, but they say they are working on it and that will come later (also some sort of carer sharing update which sends results to other phones), so I'll just have to wait and see what happens with that. They won't be drawn on when that might be. I'm wondering if it's more a medical licensing/authorisation issue than a software one, but I'm just speculating along the lines of do alerts make it a medical device which needs authorisation.

Alll in all, I don't regret the purchase, it was kind of amusing getting results pushed to my phone but I think I'll probably just keep it on the sideboard for now and if they get round to running alerts, would then be handy for overnight wear for alerts when I've been out for a few beers at the weekend. I'm not that fussed about day alerts or midweek night alerts, so don't want to get all dexcommed up, but it would be handy having an occasional alarm available for after the odd night out on the town!

One little quirk was that it kept on measuring ( accurately) for twelve hours after the sensor had officially died. Has done that with both sensors I've used it on, so, hey, at least, I've had a free day out of it! I was really interested in seeing how long it would run for, was hoping I might get an extra week or so, so a bit of a pain it ended after only a 12 extra hours.

Ambrosia is a tiny little company. I think they've been overwhelmed by the logistics of getting it to market, so you're never going to get the same level of support you get from Abbott.

PS: just noticed Glucoangel the other day, see link below. Another start-up offering a libre add on to provide alerts, but currently only selling in Spain. The construction looks kinda flimsy and vulnerable to breakage. At least the blucon is a fairly sturdy and compact little piece in comparison.
http://glucoangel.instead-technologies.com

philwoolfall · Jul 20, 2017

Hi Scott, very interesting to hear how the nightrider is working out for you. I'm trying to decide whether to give it a try as with the cost and import tariffs to the UK it'll seem a bit of a waste of money if iOS11 solves the issue in a few months so am trying to work out how much use it'll really be. I was wondering if the Ambrosia app actually brings the blood sugar reading up on the phone as a notification of if it's just in the app itself? I do some ultra running and if it does notifications I can just push it to come up on my watch, which for long distance racing would be really useful.

Thanks, Phil

Scott-C said:
Hi, @alasdair.mitchell , there's been a couple of app updates for bugfixes, now up to version 2.1.6, and this seems to have ironed out a few glitches.

After the initial novelty of having a new toy to play with wore off, I've not used it that much, maybe about 10 days in total spread over 2 sensors, but certainly, after those 2 glitchy days, and since the app updates, I felt it was working pretty well, usually fairly close to meter, indeed, closer than the reader. It doesn't use the same predictive algorithms as the reader, so there can sometimes be divergent readings during rapid changes just on account of that which can take a bit of getting used to.

For holding it on, I got one of these:
http://www.freestylesticker.de/Produkt/ambrosia-blucon-nightrider-fix/ .The blucon isn't waterproof so you need to take it on and off for showers so the armband is a bit handier than faffing about with big plasters. Used surgical tape for a while but I was getting a mild allergic reaction.

I recall reading something about a warranty period but can't recall how long it was. The construction is fairly decent, solid, and at the end of the day it's just a bit of electronics with a changeable battery so it should last a while.

As you say, it doesn't have alerts, but they say they are working on it and that will come later (also some sort of carer sharing update which sends results to other phones), so I'll just have to wait and see what happens with that. They won't be drawn on when that might be. I'm wondering if it's more a medical licensing/authorisation issue than a software one, but I'm just speculating along the lines of do alerts make it a medical device which needs authorisation.

Alll in all, I don't regret the purchase, it was kind of amusing getting results pushed to my phone but I think I'll probably just keep it on the sideboard for now and if they get round to running alerts, would then be handy for overnight wear for alerts when I've been out for a few beers at the weekend. I'm not that fussed about day alerts or midweek night alerts, so don't want to get all dexcommed up, but it would be handy having an occasional alarm available for after the odd night out on the town!

One little quirk was that it kept on measuring ( accurately) for twelve hours after the sensor had officially died. Has done that with both sensors I've used it on, so, hey, at least, I've had a free day out of it! I was really interested in seeing how long it would run for, was hoping I might get an extra week or so, so a bit of a pain it ended after only a 12 extra hours.

Ambrosia is a tiny little company. I think they've been overwhelmed by the logistics of getting it to market, so you're never going to get the same level of support you get from Abbott.

PS: just noticed Glucoangel the other day, see link below. Another start-up offering a libre add on to provide alerts, but currently only selling in Spain. The construction looks kinda flimsy and vulnerable to breakage. At least the blucon is a fairly sturdy and compact little piece in comparison.
http://glucoangel.instead-technologies.com

Scott-C · Jul 20, 2017

philwoolfall said:
I was wondering if the Ambrosia app actually brings the blood sugar reading up on the phone as a notification of if it's just in the app itself? I do some ultra running and if it does notifications I can just push it to come up on my watch, which for long distance racing would be really useful

Hi, Phil, thought it'd be easier to show with a screenshot, see below. That's on an LK K8. If I drag down the notification window, the grey bit shows the last reading and time and updates every 5 mins. It does that whether the app is maximised or minimised (sorry - not up to date with phone lingo!). There's no beep or anything like that which I'd get with a text - would get annoying every 5 minutes.

I know next to nothing about phones, but have been curious whether there's maybe some app kicking about on the interweb which takes data from that grey bit and then does something depending on the value, like ring the phone if value is less than 4! Just some wishful thinking...

Anyway, here's the screenshot:

philwoolfall · Jul 21, 2017

Thanks Scott, much appreciated. Very tempted to take a punt on getting one....

eventhorizon · Jul 21, 2017

Scott-C said:
Hi, Phil, thought it'd be easier to show with a screenshot, see below. That's on an LK K8. If I drag down the notification window, the grey bit shows the last reading and time and updates every 5 mins. It does that whether the app is maximised or minimised (sorry - not up to date with phone lingo!). There's no beep or anything like that which I'd get with a text - would get annoying every 5 minutes.

I know next to nothing about phones, but have been curious whether there's maybe some app kicking about on the interweb which takes data from that grey bit and then does something depending on the value, like ring the phone if value is less than 4! Just some wishful thinking...

Anyway, here's the screenshot:

View attachment 23435

Hi Scott C.

There is an alarm which works with the Sony Smartwatch. It's called Libre Alarm. I don't know if it's compatible with wearables other than the Sony.

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Diabetes.co.uk Forum mobile app

Scott-C · Jul 21, 2017

eventhorizon said:
Libre Alarm. I don't know if it's compatible with wearables other than the Sony.

Hmm, now there's an idea - mix and match tech!

LibreAlarm is a very impressive piece of work - I was gobsmacked when I read about the ingenuity of the guy who did it, and the people doing limiTTer, and blueReader, - but, while these things are damned impressive, they're all existing in their own environments, so it's unlikely that transmitters in one will talk to different apps.

I don't think my blucon will speak to librealarm. But then again, I've not tried it. I'll give it a go sometime.

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