Frustrated

Wuz · Jul 28, 2017

Hi everyone, been diagnosed now all most three months and have my first HBa1c next week not sure it's going to show any difference at all!! I'm on 4 500mg slow release metformin (no side effects) and 1 Pioglitazone 30mg a day along with low carb low fat low sugar low everything diet having around 50grams of carbs a day with some days that being zero.. I have lost a stone in weight and have upped exercise by walking and have now hit 8000 steps moving on to the 10000 a day.. and my blood fasting and bedtime are still hitting 10,11,12s. I also have high blood pressure (meds) and high cholesterol (diet refused statins).. anyone have any other ideas that may help?? At diagnoses reading was 90 which converted to 10.4.. thanks in advance

Guzzler · Jul 29, 2017

You said 'low sugar' I would advise no refined sugar and zero to very low natural sugars such as fructose. Other than that it is a wait and see what your HbA1c reading is. May I ask why you are doing low fat?

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Guzzler said:
You said 'low sugar' I would advise no refined sugar and zero to very low natural sugars such as fructose. Other than that it is a wait and see what your HbA1c reading is. May I ask why you are doing low fat?

Yes that's what I mean when I say low sugar (it's just how I say it to friends) I'm possible eating too much fruit now you've said that I have probably about two to three helpings a day (that fit in the palm of my hand).. low fat advice from diabetic nurse because of high cholesterol and to help with weight loss.. I eat very little fat/oil if I cook with it it's normally rapeseed oil in a spray bottle..

Guzzler · Jul 29, 2017

You could try berries instead of other fruits, a few with cream or Greek yoghurt is nice. As to the advise from your DN on low fat, that is a subject that seems to come up daily here. I would advise using the search function on this forum and research the question of fat and high cholesterol. My own take, and I am no expert, is that there is no direct causal link between high cholesterol and CVD. You could view videos on YouTube about this especially by Ian Cummins and others far more adept than I am to go through the science and debunk the myths on cholesterol. Perhaps start with researching the father of cholesterol, Ancel Keys and why his data is now considered, and some would say proven, to be wrong. Good luck.

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Guzzler said:
You could try berries instead of other fruits, a few with cream or Greek yoghurt is nice. As to the advise from your DN on low fat, that is a subject that seems to come up daily here. I would advise using the search function on this forum and research the question of fat and high cholesterol. My own take, and I am no expert, is that there is no direct causal link between high cholesterol and CVD. You could view videos on YouTube about this especially by Ian Cummins and others far more adept than I am to go through the science and debunk the myths on cholesterol. Perhaps start with researching the father of cholesterol, Ancel Keys and why his data is now considered, and some would say proven, to be wrong. Good luck.

Thank you so much I shall do some research and yes I enjoy berries Greek yoghurt but stayed away from cream.. thank you again

Bluetit1802 · Jul 29, 2017

Well done on the weight loss and the increased daily steps.

Are you testing before and after meals? If not, then perhaps you should start because that will tell you more than just fasting and bedtimes. It will tell you if you have too many carbs in that meal and allow you to adjust matters. I would also test before and after fruit if you eat them as a snack rather than as part of a meal. (The general advice is not to eat them as a snack) Keeping a food diary is also a good plan.

If you are also testing before and after meals, what sort of rises do you see from before to after?

Berries are the best ones to eat. Most other fruits can be difficult for us.

You may want to look at this, if you haven't already seen it. It refers to Pioglitazone
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-medication/diabetes-and-actos.html

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Thank you, I was testing every meal as well but I haven't done in a while unless I try something new as I wasnt getting huge differences plus it was stressing me out working so hard and not seeing any change. Friends keep saying it's early days and I know this but it's hard to be patient. I shall bare in mind snacking on fruit as I didn't know this.. I'm keeping a food diary as I've joined slimming world to try and keep a hang on this also I'm off to buy a new book to keep track of daily carbs more religiously..

Thank you for that link what an eye opener I'm having several of the side effects constantly tired extreme thirst sneezing all sorts so I will be challenging the nurse on this on Tuesday. I thought all of it was just my bs getting worse maybe not now also the last few days I've been extremely low and haven't been able to snap out of it..

Thank you for your advice

bulkbiker · Jul 29, 2017

Wuz said:
I will be challenging the nurse on this on Tuesday

Slight word of caution.. a lot of nurses don't like to be "challenged".. if you are good at sticking up for yourself then fine but if not this may not be the best policy.. I would also suggest going in well informed. Maybe check out the fat emperor Ivor Cummings
http://www.thefatemperor.com
and Zoe Harcombe
http://www.zoeharcombe.com

There are lots of others..

Quite a few people here have found that their cholesterol levels go down when following a Low Carb High Fat diet.
Personally I don't worry about mine anyway ... but that's just my view.

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

bulkbiker said:
Slight word of caution.. a lot of nurses don't like to be "challenged".. if you are good at sticking up for yourself then fine but if not this may not be the best policy.. I would also suggest going in well informed. Maybe check out the fat emperor Ivor Cummings
http://www.thefatemperor.com
and Zoe Harcombe
http://www.zoeharcombe.com

There are lots of others..

Quite a few people here have found that their cholesterol levels go down when following a Low Carb High Fat diet.
Personally I don't worry about mine anyway ... but that's just my view.

I'm not overly worried about the cholesterol to be honest it's more about getting my bs levels down she's pretty good my nurse I always ask loads of questions and she does check with all my meds and side effects every time I see her so challenge is probably to strong a word.. I've had two different pills added to my metformin in as many months it's just frustrating me a bit as I seem to be doing everything I can and getting no drop in my levels.. I have picked up some advice off this thread I wasn't aware of ie: fruit so I will test keep a track on everything again and see what she thinks on Tuesday. I've also been told maybe take B12 because of the metformin and apple cider vinegar?

Resurgam · Jul 29, 2017

I'm afraid that having three servings of fruit a day can't really be low carb - not from my guessing at the possible carb content but from seeing your actual blood glucose levels.
As you are consistently seeing numbers higher than you'd like the conclusion has to be that yo are consistently eating more carbs than you can cope with. For you, your 'correct' amount of carbs is lower than at present.
One of the core principles of the Atkins diet was knowing how many carbs to eat using weight loss as a guide. For diabetics BG level is far more important, but I think the principle holds - you need to tailor your carbs to a level which is reflected in your meter readings.
I suspect that your Hba1c will have gone down, but that your post meal spikes are rather too high.

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Resurgam said:
I'm afraid that having three servings of fruit a day can't really be low carb - not from my guessing at the possible carb content but from seeing your actual blood glucose levels.
As you are consistently seeing numbers higher than you'd like the conclusion has to be that yo are consistently eating more carbs than you can cope with. For you, your 'correct' amount of carbs is lower than at present.
One of the core principles of the Atkins diet was knowing how many carbs to eat using weight loss as a guide. For diabetics BG level is far more important, but I think the principle holds - you need to tailor your carbs to a level which is reflected in your meter readings.
I suspect that your Hba1c will have gone down, but that your post meal spikes are rather too high.

Ok thank you I shall take a closer more in depth look at my carbs and go back to using my meter.

Freema · Jul 29, 2017

the only really effective way to lower blood glucose is to eat very little amounts of carbs daily , and maybe even eat a breakfast totally without any carbs at all.. and not to forget exercise by th way..

you are already doing a lot of the most recomended so maybe you just need to keep on for a longer while doing waht you are already doing

by the way my cholesterol lowered when I went low calories for some 6 months... and lower fat as well...

if you miss fruit very much then you could reward yourself with eating a little berries with cream once in a while, berries are filled with fibres and do contain less fructose compared to fruits , the cream along with the berries makes the glucose slower in being taken into the veins

Bluetit1802 · Jul 29, 2017

Wuz said:
Ok thank you I shall take a closer more in depth look at my carbs and go back to using my meter.

Yes, I suggest back to basics. Food diary including portion sizes and snacks, and regular testing before and after meals.

The only other thing to consider is that you could try some intermittent fasting. By this I mean no breakfast. Nothing between evening meal and the following lunch time. This gives the pancreas a good rest, and works wonders for many of us. You could try eating only in either a 6 hour window or an 8 hour window. (known as 18/6 and 16/8). Just drink fluids, or maybe a coffee with cream when you first get up.

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Bluetit1802 said:
Yes, I suggest back to basics. Food diary including portion sizes and snacks, and regular testing before and after meals.

The only other thing to consider is that you could try some intermittent fasting. By this I mean no breakfast. Nothing between evening meal and the following lunch time. This gives the pancreas a good rest, and works wonders for many of us. You could try eating only in either a 6 hour window or an 8 hour window. (known as 18/6 and 16/8). Just drink fluids, or maybe a coffee with cream when you first get up.

I don't eat till around 11.00 as I can't stomach anything to early and then dinner around 5/6.00 but then I will probably have something 8.00ish and thinking about it not because I'm hungry or anything just out of habit.. so I can stop that..

Can't drink coffee horrible stuff lol .. but I am now armed with a new little carb note book and lots of ideas from all you guys. Also feeling a bit more positive about like you say going back to basics and stripping back what actual carbs I am having and looking at the fruit situation.

Thanks everyone

Bluetit1802 · Jul 29, 2017

Yes, try to cut out the 8pm snack. If you are hungry, a cup of tea or similar might suffice. I imagine though that you are right, it has become a habit, and one you don't need. Let us know how you go on.

Freema · Jul 29, 2017

proteins eaten in excess can by the way also affect blood glucose levels.. it is important to eat around 0.8-1 gram of protein pro kg body-weight
so if one do weigh like 90 kg one also need around 90 grams of protein daily... and not much more

Freema · Jul 29, 2017

Wuz said:
Thank you, I was testing every meal as well but I haven't done in a while unless I try something new as I wasnt getting huge differences plus it was stressing me out working so hard and not seeing any change. Friends keep saying it's early days and I know this but it's hard to be patient. I shall bare in mind snacking on fruit as I didn't know this.. I'm keeping a food diary as I've joined slimming world to try and keep a hang on this also I'm off to buy a new book to keep track of daily carbs more religiously..

Thank you for that link what an eye opener I'm having several of the side effects constantly tired extreme thirst sneezing all sorts so I will be challenging the nurse on this on Tuesday. I thought all of it was just my bs getting worse maybe not now also the last few days I've been extremely low and haven't been able to snap out of it..

Thank you for your advice

hey maybe have some bowl of nuts on your table all times to snack on...I always have 3 types of nuts on my table ...they are a very easy way to snack on the right kind of fats and foods... in between meals.. cherry tomatoes are also a very fine choice

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Freema said:
proteins eaten in excess can by the way also affect blood glucose levels.. it is important to eat around 0.8-1 gram of protein pro kg body-weight
so if one do weigh like 90 kg one also need around 90 grams of protein daily... and not much more

I didn't know that thank you I shall start weighing the protein as well

Freema · Jul 29, 2017

Wuz said:
I didn't know that thank you I shall start weighing the protein as well

I am sure you´ll soon gain control, we have all been where you are now... trying to do our best and frustrated... luckily this is the best forum in the world I think for advice. of type 2 control.. the approach this forum officially promotes are among the most effective til date... and not just an automatic stupidity like many of the worlds official health units keep repeating endlessly

Wuz · Jul 29, 2017

Freema said:
4500 mg of metformin.. well that is much more than the recomended maximum of the medication....hmm are your much bigger than other persons weigth-wise .?.. the top recomendation is around 2000mg-3000mg...

the only really effective way to lower blood glucose is to eat very little amounts of carbs daily , and maybe even eat a breakfast totally without any carbs at all.. and not to forget exercise by th way..

you are already doing a lot of the most recomended so maybe you just need to keep on for a longer while doing waht you are already doing

by the way my cholesterol lowered when I went low calories for some 6 months... and lower fat as well...

if you miss fruit very much then you could reward yourself with eating a little berries with cream once in a while, berries are filled with fibres and do contain less fructose compared to fruits , the cream along with the berries makes the glucose slower in being taken into the veins

Only just seen this.. sorry I meant 500mg 4 times a day so 2000 mg a day..

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