Hba1c

The NHS line is that Type 2 diabetes is progressive by which they mean that it will get worse with time. The members of this forum have demonstrated that you can lower your Hba1c and if you continue with good control you can defer any nasty effect.

You have done what many of us have done and lowered your Hba1c but I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38. The evidence suggests that you were tying one on before diagnosis and have had some scope to lower your readings.

You cannot easily compare your stats with those of others since it all depends on what your were eating then and what you are eating now.

If you are truly pre-diabetic then you are in a better position than most but if you go back to your original habits the numbers say you are diabetic. I think the diagnosis in the case of most people is made when they are not controlling their diabetes.

Diabetic/pre-diabetic ....you seem to have enough of a problem to take control and keep up the good habits.

As a prediabetic with improved HBa1c and improved over a health due to your diet and exercise regime, you will be more tolerant of carbs and your pancreas is in better health and better able to cope with occasional carb spikes.

T2 diabetes is reversible so maybe you are not much better off than someone who had T2 for a short term then reversed it. Either way you are very wise and disciplined to have changed your habits to improve your health and avoid diabetes. The discipline required to avoid diabetes is much easier than the discipline needed to reverse it or to live with it.

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Good question, Aqua.

As you know, we have become hba1c twins today, but we have come to this number from very different paths. You have not dipped your toe across the diagnosis line, but I have sprinted right past it then come back again I felt like **** for months before diagnosis so there may already be damage done.

I don't know the answer to the question as it seems to be a very complicated condition. The best we can do is do our best

Squire Fulwood wrote: I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38.

We don't know James' HbA1c on diagnosis (the spot reading was 24mmol/L), but three weeks later, on a low carb diet it was 75 mmol/mol. Three months after that it was 38. This was due to low carb, more exercise and the resultant weight loss. The down side to the rapid drop was that the retinopathy, spotted by an optician, which led to the diagnosis, became worse and he has needed laser treatment. His HbA1c continues to fall and is now at 34 mmol/mol. His exercise levels are much much higher and he is the thinest he has been since a teenager - and that was a long time ago. He also feels very well, is a different person to the one I knew a year ago and his consultant has said that he does not consider him to be diabetic.
Sally

aqualung said:

avocado the reason I asked the question is because you have the same Hba1c as me now yet you have reduced your's so much more than me. I thought my result was good till I saw your's! I just wondered if our pancreas both work the same now we are on the same level. and the same as a normal person as that is what an Hb1ac is considered to be

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You should be thrilled to bits with your result I just had further to fall. Perhaps if I had been as vigilant as you and not just assumed every freaky symptom I had last year was menopausal, I might have not climbed as high. I doubt our pancreases work the same as there are so many variables. My pancreas is covered with fat so that would make a difference to its efficiency for starters. Plus age, length of time with impairment. Dunno, not a doctor. D and pre-D are very individual to each person. Hope you manage to avoid diagnosis and continue maintaining healthy levels x

Squire Fulwood said:

The NHS line is that Type 2 diabetes is progressive by which they mean that it will get worse with time. The members of this forum have demonstrated that you can lower your Hba1c and if you continue with good control you can defer any nasty effect.

You have done what many of us have done and lowered your Hba1c but I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38. The evidence suggests that you were tying one on before diagnosis and have had some scope to lower your readings.

You cannot easily compare your stats with those of others since it all depends on what your were eating then and what you are eating now.

If you are truly pre-diabetic then you are in a better position than most but if you go back to your original habits the numbers say you are diabetic. I think the diagnosis in the case of most people is made when they are not controlling their diabetes.

Diabetic/pre-diabetic ....you seem to have enough of a problem to take control and keep up the good habits.

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I have gone from 67 to 41 in two months, hope to get 38 next time, but have been experimenting with holding my weight for a few weeks so may not.

aqualung said:

My Hba1c started off at 46 and is now 38. How does this compare with someone who started off with an Hb1ac of say 80 and now has an Hb1ac of 38? Would our bodies react the same (well as same as diabetes does) to carbs or would I being prediabetic have more resistance to carbs? Would my pancreas have been less damaged and therefore more tolerant? I assume that my diabetes risk will always be there and I need to watch what I eat forever but will it be as severe since I didn't reach diabetic levels

Sorry for all the questions I am curious as to prediabetes affects my body and will in the future

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My HBA1c was 83 at diagnosis (July 2012) - it is now 36 I maintain a lowish carb (typically less than 100g carbs daily), moderate fat diet. My HBA1c came down pretty quickly when I adopted this diet, and I have more or less maintained it since. I lost 3.5 stones in the process (within 6 months of diagnosis). I exercise daily and do a lot of gardening to help with insulin resistance, and I intend to keep this up if it means I can remain drug-free for as long as possible (for ever? - I hope). If this is what it takes to keep me as safe as possible and avoid complications arising from worsening diabetes, then I consider it a price worth paying. I'd rather have my feet than a doughnut. I can tolerate more carbs now than I could at diagnosis, but I can't eat them wholesale like I did before - i.e. at a level which would be regarded as "normal" on planet carb.

My personal opinion, and it's only that - I'm not medically qualified, is that it's impossible to know, but it's likely that your pancreas may be less damaged than mine as your highest level is much lower than my highest recorded level. I also think that our pancreases (plural?) may recover to some degree by following an appropriate diet and exercise regime, reducing insulin resistance/weight as appropriate in the process. The only way that I know of to find out how carb-tolerant you are is to use your meter.

Further, I think that like me, your diabetes (barring a medical "cure") WILL always be there and may worsen if you don't maintain your BG's in a safe range, but that you MAY be able to avoid your diabetes getting worse if you're careful what you eat in future.

If you're asking these questions because you want to go back to your old eating habits which led to your being pre-diabetic then I would advise against it - unless you want full-blown diabetes.

Squire Fulwood said:

The NHS line is that Type 2 diabetes is progressive by which they mean that it will get worse with time. The members of this forum have demonstrated that you can lower your Hba1c and if you continue with good control you can defer any nasty effect.

You have done what many of us have done and lowered your Hba1c but I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38. The evidence suggests that you were tying one on before diagnosis and have had some scope to lower your readings.

You cannot easily compare your stats with those of others since it all depends on what your were eating then and what you are eating now.

If you are truly pre-diabetic then you are in a better position than most but if you go back to your original habits the numbers say you are diabetic. I think the diagnosis in the case of most people is made when they are not controlling their diabetes.

Diabetic/pre-diabetic ....you seem to have enough of a problem to take control and keep up the good habits.

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but I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38.... huh, confused?

aqualung said:

I thought my symptoms were the menopause too, funny I have had no hot flushes since I started LCHF. I had a blood test to check hormone levels but I also mentioned about the time that I went really hungry, dizzy and couldn't concentrate so she checked my blood sugar levels. It is all pure chance that I got tested. I have gone for fairly low carb rather than low carb (and luckily I am able to) so that I am able to carry it on more easily for ever.


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Turned out none of my symptoms were menopausal after all I decided when I got diabetes that i am not going to bother having a menopause...there is not enough hours in the day to do both lol

Andy12345 said:

but I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38.... huh, confused?

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106 to 36 - awesome Andy!

Andy12345 said:

but I know of no-one who have actually managed the spread of 80 down to 38.... huh, confused?

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Ok I now know someone who did very well and I got this from aqualung

"squire fulwood Ok the 80 was a bit of an exaggeration, the point I was trying to make was is there any difference in the end result depending what the start level was? as far as I can see there isn't"

aqualung said:

I am clueless which is why I ask so many questions

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That's a good place to be at, keep asking the questions. It's so much better to think you are clueless than to think you know everything, we should all ask questions.

aqualung said:

I am clueless which is why I ask so many questions

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Questions are good. It's finding the answers that is the problem

My view is that if you're pre-diabetic or diabetic, then you're glucose intolerant, and always will be. At the moment, there is no "cure" for that. The accepted view is that is for those T2's and pre-diabetics at least, you have a chance to successfully manage the condition by diet & exercise and/or medication, and yes, that means forever, or until a cure is found.

As to damage, you may be able to make a reasonable assumption that if you have not suffered very high blood sugar for an extended period, then the likelihood is that you will not have suffered much long-term damage to your pancreas or other organs (complications) that could be measured. Following that to it's logical conclusion, then IMO provided you get and maintain control relatively quickly after diagnosis, you may be able minimise or eliminate the possibility of further damage. This is my hope, and what keeps me on the "straight and narrow"

You may also be able to assume that another person who suffered higher blood sugar over the same period might be at risk of increased damage.
But how much that might be? I would imagine that it would be impossible to tell, short of a post- mortem, if that person has no detectable signs of damage . (I fall into that category - the no damage part - not the post mortem!). I don't know of any way of measuring damage which isn't giving any obvious symptoms or signs - but perhaps someone else may know of tests other than the regular tests that diabetics get as part of their on-going care?

I would say that if any damage you might have suffered prior to gaining control of your blood sugar is not detectable by the usual tests, then you can count yourself lucky, as I most certainly do. But I would advise against any complacency in managing your blood sugar by using whatever means works for you to get and keep control. Be vigilant for any signs of complications - without scaring yourself silly, count your lucky stars, be happy and healthy, and get on with living your life to the full.

Some days I'm mad enough to think that my diabetes diagnosis is the best thing that's ever happened to me, because it opened my eyes to a better, healthier lifestyle - one where I feel better, look better, and have more energy than I ever did. I'm looking forward to a long, happy and healthy life.