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HOME BLOOD GLUCOSE TEST RESULTS GOOD BUT SYMPTOMS STILL BAD

Antje77 said:
Why do you think there is glucose in your urine?
Glucose usually only starts to spill in uring when blood glucose is above 10 or 11 mmol/l.
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Hello Antje77,

Thanks for your reply.

The reason why I thought that there might still be Glucose in my urine is because I know that frequent urination is a symptom of Diabetes in order to flush out excess Glucose from the body.

Also when my type 2 Diabetes was confirmed / diagnosed by my Doctor he also confirmed that my dehydration / frequent drinking and frequent urination were caused by my Diabetes.

He obviously stated that because they are symptoms of Diabetes and the thought at that point that there might also be another medical problem causing the same symptoms would just not have occurred to him and I would not have had any reason to question it at that time.

I have been asking on this thread whether those symptoms should have lessened because of my seemingly `normal` Blood Glucose test results ?

Your answer about excess Glucose levels being about 10 or 11 mmol/L is telling me that YES they should have lessened after a period of `good` Blood Glucose test results.

I should NOT be getting dehydrated because my Blood Glucose levels have NOT been excessive for at least 4.5 weeks and NOT needing frequent Urination to flush any excess Glucose out of my body.

Thank You very much for the information - I have not been able to find that online despite quite a few searches relating to `Diabetes / frequent Urination` and other search wording.

I have previously mentioned in a couple of messages the possibility that just coincidentally I may have type 2 Diabetes and something else which is causing the Dehydration / frequent Urination - including mentioning `Diabetes Insipidus` which if I do have it would be very bad luck indeed as it is apparently quite a rare medical problem.

Thanks again.

Chris
 
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Hello Rokaab,

Please also read my reply above to Member Antje77 so that I don`t have to write all of that again.

I am definitely `open minded` about possibly having another medical problem as well as type 2 Diabetes as I wrote in previous messages on here.

However I have previously explained why I will probably not be able to get an appointment to see my Doctor before about the end of May unless I have cause to insist that my Surgery Admin. staff book me an `Urgent appointment` [non urgent problems are not getting appointments re. Covid-19 restrictions] - at present Dehydration / frequent drinking / frequent Urination would almost certainly be seen as symptoms of my Diabetes and to be addressed at my May appointment.

I have previously mentioned in a couple of messages that I know that there could be another reason for my Dehydration / frequent drinking / frequent Urination - especially after I took Member Dark Horse`s advice and bought some Urine Analysis test strips which seem to show that there was a `Negligible amount` of Glucose in my urine after doing 10 x Urine tests - 2 a day on 5 different days - morning upon waking and again in late afternoon / early evening.

Last year because I was having to urinate more frequently than normally but not enough to cause Dehydration my Prostate condition was checked in a Urinary Clinic which included having a camera inserted into my bladder plus Urine flow / quantity and Blood tests - those checks ruled out a problem with my Prostate and Bladder - the symptoms of Dehydration / frequent drinking / frequent Urination started only about 3 months after that check.

Now that Member Antje77 has informed me that I should not have excess Glucose in my body requiring frequent urination to get rid of it because my Blood Glucose test results are averaging 5.7 mmol/L it seems almost certain that there is another cause for those symptoms other than my type 2 Diabetes.

Some research I did online seemed to show that my exact symptoms could be being caused by `Diabetes Insipidus` - NOT any form of Diabetes just called that from many years ago because the symptoms seemed like those indicating Diabetes and the name was never changed - I mentioned that in a previous message.

If I do have that it would be very bad luck indeed as it is apparently quite a rare medical problem and the only method of confirming a diagnosis requires quite complicated tests which are carried out over many hours including `Water deprivation Blood tests` - a Hormone injection and Blood tests related to that plus Blood tests to reveal the effect of drinking certain amounts of water - these tests obviously have to be carried out in a Hospital - possibly during a couple of days stay.

With millions of Hospital admissions for even `Urgent Medical procedures` outstanding because of Covid-19 restrictions I cannot imagine that I would be being referred for such tests any time in the near future.

Thanks again for your reply.

Chris
 
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Hello All,

Just an update - I had more Blood tests in May and the results relating to my Type 2 Diabetes were pretty good.

When I had Blood tests for Diabetes in January that resulted in me being diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes the relevant results were - 86 and 9.7%.

My 220 Blood Glucose Meter tests since the 7th March have averaged 5.3 - with quite a few weeks having a 7 day average of 5.1 so I was expecting the Blood Clinic tests to be much better than those in January.

The Diabetes relevant Blood test results in May were - 46 and 6.4% which I am pleased to see are a big improvement.

I think that I am correct in thinking that those figures would just about fall into the ranges for `Pre-Diabetes` although I am sure that my Doctor would still state that I have Type 2 Diabetes.

The lowering of my Blood Glucose must be because I changed my Diet from probably [unknowingly] having 300 - 400 grams of carbohydrates per day for 20 years to between 75g and 100g daily - this has also seemingly caused me to lose about 36 kilos in weight in 4 months - hopefully that has been the change of diet and not something serious ?

However as I described in my previous messages on here I am still very dehydrated when I wake up and would be throughout every day if I did not drink copious amounts of water throughout the time that I am awake which obviously results in VERY frequent urination.

There was a problem with the Hospital Blood Laboratory Computer system which meant that there was a big delay in test results being sent electronically to the patients Doctors Surgeries so I had to wait more than 2 weeks for my results or I would have posted them on here sooner.

My Diabetes Specialist Doctors appointment is not for about another 2 weeks so I will be interested to see what he makes of my dehydration and very frequent urination symptoms - [not my body flushing out excess glucose - checked by testing my urine] plus the very quick / large amount of weight loss and what he recommends going forward regarding my Diabetes.

I am much more worried about the dehydration, frequent urination and large weight loss than the Diabetes at present but I was not able to arrange a Doctors appointment to speak specifically about those symptoms because the Surgery records showed that one was to be scheduled after the May Blood tests.

I will post an update again after my Doctors appointment.

Thanks to all of the Members who have already replied to this thread and to any future readers / responders.

Chris
 
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Hi Chris

Firstly, congratulations on the success with lowering your blood glucose. You're right that the reading of 46 on the HbA1c puts you in the "pre-diabetic" range. Given the huge reduction you've achieved already, it seems probable that your next A1c might see you in normal range. My view, for what its worth, is that those of us who've reduced BGs to normal levels are still diabetic - we'd still be insulin resistant, and still be at risk of raising our A1cs by eating quantities of carbs. However we've avoided the harms that can follow from living with too high a level of blood sugars.

Your weight loss is pretty substantial - 36 kilos in four months is really a lot. Weight loss does travel with low carb for many people - I'm sure your doctor would be interested in that.

You might have picked up already that not all T2s have/had the classic increased urination symptom - I had quite the reverse, as my body tried its best to lower the sugar concentration by retaining as much water as possible.

Congratulations again. Let us know what happens.
 
Hello KennyA,

Thanks for your message.

What I am worried about regarding my dehydration and very frequent urination is that although I thought that it was a definite symptom of Diabetes [so did my Doctor at the diagnosis appointment] information that I received from a Member on the Forum stated that my Blood Glucose test results were too low for me to have excessive Glucose for my body to flush out by increasing the frequency of my urination.

The Member prompted me to buy some Urine test strips which when I used some confirmed that there was definitely not excess glucose in my urine.

I did about 12 urine tests - 2 per day - one upon waking up and one in the early evening for 6 days - spread out over a period of about 2 weeks - the test strips were advertised as the type being used by the NHS and I did verify that - all of the 12 test strips showed Glucose as `Neg` which I took to mean a negligible amount.

I have tried to research what else could be causing my dehydration and very frequent urination and I came across `Diabetes Insipidus` - NOT a form of Diabetes but named that because years ago Doctors thought that the frequent urination was a symptom of Diabetes and when they found out that it was not being caused by Diabetes they did not change the name for some reason.

I read that this is caused by a combination of a problem in the Brain and the release / non release of a particular hormone which is related to regulating the body`s water retention or non retention.

The information that I found stated that confirming a diagnosis of that requires Hospitalisation so that tests can be carried out over a period of a couple of days and apparently there is no cure - patients just have to `keep drinking plenty of water` for the rest of their lives and I am guessing be prescribed minerals, electrolytes etc. that they are losing in the excessive urination.

Even if my Doctor does agree / suspect that I may have `Diabetes Insipidus` he almost certainly will not be able to justify referring me for hospitalisation to have tests carried out for a medical problem that has no cure.

So because of there being no cure being referred as an in patient to Hospital for tests is unlikely at present because of the millions of people who are on the waiting lists since the disruptions caused by the Covid-19 pandemic.

So even when I speak to my Diabetes Specialist Doctor about what I have described in these messages he probably will not know what is causing the dehydration and frequent urination.

Something else that is concerning me is that I have logged my water drinking quantities and urination quantities and although I thought that it would be impossible I have been urinating quite a lot more than I have been drinking - on some days urinating as much as 1.5 litres more than I have drunk.

I thought that when we drink water / other liquids a percentage would be absorbed by our bodies to `run` our organs / our metabolism / our digestive system etc. and the excess disposed of as urine - how can I be urinating substantially more water than I am drinking ?

Sorry that this is such a long winded message Kenny - thanks again for your interest - I would welcome your and other Members comments on what i wrote here.

My Regards, Chris
 
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hi Chris, now for the science bit. What we eat and drink generally gets stripped right down and either used immediately for energy, or is stored as 'fat' for use later on or used to make proteins and superstructure like bones and cartilage. we run a duel fuel system, that either converts the basic fuel to be either glucose or lipid based ketones. Our furnace completes the stripping down to one fuel and burns only one fuel element which is called ATP. and both glucose and lipids get a final stripdown to ATP. The result of this action is oxidation which adds oxygen to the ATP to make it burn. The exhaust products are basically CO2 and H2O (similar to what happens in a car engine) Because we only feed it ATP the burn is very efficient and we don;t get CO or partial hydrocarbons. (burps are from a previous stage of the process)

So in answer to where the wee comes from, it comes from whatever you are burning during the day. It is not dependant on what you drink or how much. When the body stores glucose as gylcogen it bundles up 3 glucose molecules together, adds water and stores it as a triglyceride. When the body retrieves this from store it removes the added water and shoves the glucose back into the blood, and dumps the surpus water/ The added water will come from your drink most likely. So it seems you are probably thirsty while your body is storing glucose or lipids, and weeing when you switch to running on reserve supplies.
 

I found out that I have type 2 diabetes today and I am very nervous. I read the comments, thanks.
 
bottomgrowth said:
I found out that I have type 2 diabetes today and I am very nervous. I read the comments, thanks.
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Hi, welcome to the forums. What are you nervous about? Has anyone explained what's going on?

By the way, you're posting in someone else's thread and to avoid confusion it might be better to move your post into a thread of your own. We can do that for you - is that OK?.
 


Hello again Oldvatr,

Thanks for explaining that in so much detail - I really appreciate it - I think that you also replied to me about this previously.

I did try to take the process that you described in your previous message into consideration regarding my frequent urination / urination amounts but I did not think that for example urinating approximately 1.5 litres more than the liquids that I had consumed in some 24 hour periods would have been due to the processes that you described ?

I thought that such a large `additional amount` of fluid being urinated [much more than I had drank] would not have been caused by the processes that you described.

The most urine that I have regularly produced is 6.5 litres in a 24 hour period - with approximately 6 hours of that being sleep time - the daily average has been approximately 5.5 litres - regarding both quantities I would have drank approx. 5 litres and 4.5 respectively.

Although I am a retired Engineer having used metric measurements for the last 50 years I was schooled / educated in Imperial measurements and for some things I still think in Imperial terms - I can envisage the 6.5 litres amount of urine as over 11 Pint glasses lined up - a serious quantity of liquid !

Thanks again for your interest and for the excellent explanations.

Chris
 
As another Engineer, my gut instnict says that if it ain't coming from what I drink, then its coming from somewhere. Burning a hydrocarbon forms water which is what we do 24/7/365.25 awake or asleep it still happens. Fats, protein, and carbs are all hydrocarbons and all get oxidized by the air we breathe. Remember that we are some 60% water, and women are 55% because they are curvier. How steady is your weight?

Edit to add: you are only needing to account for the extra liquid. You drink 5 litres, excrete 6 litres, so need to account for 1 litre, which is well within the bounds of normal metabolism byproducts. What needs addressing is why are you drinking such a lot and feeling thirsty?
 
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I haven't read all the post. If you going a lot at night and can't put down to diabetes get your prostate check out that's how I found out I had large prostate
 


Hello again Oldvatr,

Thanks for your message - as you wrote I need to find out if possible what is causing my dehydration - frequent drinking and the resulting frequent urination.

As I mentioned previously apart from obviously hoping to find the cause of my dehydration etc I was very concerned about the volume of urine that I have been producing over the amount of fluids that I have been consuming - I thought that producing between 1 litre and 1.5 litres more than I had drank was far too much for it to be caused by my metabolism / the processes that you had described.

Having seen your latest message which stated that my metabolism / bodily functions could easily produce a litre more than I had consumed in a 24 hour period I am reassured about that worry - Thanks.

With regard to my weight - I have lost quite a lot recently which is also something that concerns me.

Since retiring form work which was quite a few years ago because I have a severe Back problem and problems with both knees I did put on quite a bit of weight after going from being very active to a sedentary life where I am not only not active but actually having to lay down on my bed for most of every 24 hours.

I have lost about 20 kilos - most of that weight between mid January and mid May:

In January just before I was officially diagnosed by my Doctor I had seen my Diabetes related blood test results so I knew that I was a Diabetic - I immediately checked my regular meals to find out what amount of Carbohydrates I was consuming daily and found that it was between about 380g and 500g.

That amount of Carbohydrate intake was probably being consumed by me every day for 20 years.

I changed my diet straight away hoping to achieve a daily intake of less than 50g of Carbohydrates - I found that difficult regarding still being able to eat `nice food` so after about 3 weeks I had settled on meals that are less than 100g of carbohydrates.

For about the last 50 years I only eat once a day - my evening meal / dinner - that is not a diet situation I got used to it when I was going out early to work, not wanting to eat breakfast or lunch and just having a dinner in the evening.

I am very surprised that just cutting down on my Carbohydrate intake with absolutely no exercise [I cannot exercise - not even walking around the block] would have the result that I lost about 20 kilos in 4 months - it seems in my case to be a `miracle diet` unless there is something very serious that has caused the weight loss.

I have my Diabetes Specialist Doctors appointment in 10 days time and as I wrote in previous messages I am concerned that when I explain to him all of the details that I have written in my messages on this thread that he will not know what is causing the `Non Diabetes` Dehydration / Frequent Urination but hopefully will be able to refer me to Hospital for further tests.

I hope / cannot imagine that it could be a prostate problem because my urinary symptoms seem to be the opposite of those normally associated with prostate problems and I had it checked less than a year ago - see more details below:


Thanks also to Member alanj for your message:

I had my prostate checked in Summer last year at a Hospital Urinary clinic - it was found to be normal in size - I also had an ultrasound done of my bladder etc. - I also had a camera put into my bladder via obviously my penis and prostate - they also carried out a timed urine flow test.

The Doctor stated that there was no problem with my prostate - no problem internally with my bladder and that he was guessing that there was none of even the younger Doctors who could match my urine flow rate so the Urinary system `plumbing` was also in perfect working order.

My first notice of Dehydration and Frequent Urination came only a few months after I attended that Hospital Urinary Clinic - it was just me feeling a bit more thirsty more often at first but it became more of a problem at around December 2021 / January this year.

That caused me to be almost certain that I had developed Diabetes so when that was confirmed by Diabetes blood tests and my Doctor I thought that those `symptoms` were being caused by Diabetes until I tested my urine for excess Glucose and found that there was almost no glucose in my urine.

Thanks again Oldvatr for your very informed messages and Thanks also to Member alanj and all of the other Members that I have replied to me.

Chris
 
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Hello again KennyA,

Having read through some of my previous messages on the thread I found a mistake in what I recently wrote to you:

I made an error in my previous message to You regarding my weight loss - I have lost about 20 kilos - not 36 kilos.

When I was remembering a previous weigh in result I forgot that I weighed myself in both Kilos and Stones / pounds - when I was typing my message to you I obviously remembered the approximate 36 pounds of weight loss that I had found on that previous weigh in - not the 16.36 kilo figure.

That result was from a weigh in about 3.5 weeks ago - my most recent weigh in a couple of days ago showed that I have lost about 20 kilos in the 5 months since mid January.

I mentioned in one of my messages to Member Oldvatr that although as a retired Engineer I have been using Metric measurements for at least 50 years because I was schooled / educated originally in the use of Imperial measurements I sometimes still think in those measurements for everyday situations - hence me remembering that at the previous weigh in `I had lost 36 pounds`.

For example if I look at something that is about 30cms away from another object - perhaps a car parked next to my vehicle I would probably say - `that is only about a foot away` - not `that is only about 30cms away`.

Sorry about the error - I wanted to post this correction because if I had lost 36 kilos / 79.2 pounds [!] in 4 or 5 months I would be sure that I had a VERY serious problem because I am almost certain that `normal weight loss` could not have been that rapid.

Chris
 
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Chris - I was gently asking that question. I know from personal experience what a ~20 kg weight loss looks like, over two years. Double that in four months might need additional consideration. By the way, you're not alone in mixing imperial and metric measures. My year in school was the last to use imperial, so I grew up with no instinctive feeling for some metric measures. I know what size a half-litre is, because that's what a draft Jupiler is in Belgium, but (eg) 700g of butter? Is that a lot? But I know exactly what one and a half pounds of butter looks like.
 
About 6 years ago i decided i needed to lose weight. i was nearly 18 stone. I found and started the keto diet as it was mainly all the foods i liked. over the next 4 months i lost 4 stone approx 25 kilos so don;t worry over that much weight loss it is entirely possible. i'm not saying there may be no problem but don't fret about it.
 
Hello ajbod,

Thank You very much for your reply and for letting me know about your weight loss over a 4 month period.

What worried me was not just the actual amount of weight loss but it was the fact that I lost such a large amount of weight without being able to do any exercise at all - not even being able to walk around the block on a daily basis.

I have been basically `Bed bound` / having to spend most of every 24 hours laying on my bed because of Back and knee problems.

I have a severe / life ruining Back problem and problems with both knees which have both had Arthroscopes with as much cartilage trimmed away as was necessary / possible which left me with almost no `cushioning` in my knee joints - every step feeling like my knee joints are `bone on bone` even though I know that is not quite the case.

When I do have to go out locally for example to my imminent Doctors appointment - about a 1400 metre return walk - I will find it difficult and very painful and will then be on crutches to even get up from my bed for about a week.

The Surgery is located in an area at the back of where I live but with a Main Railway line between it and my area - without the railway line it would be a short walk from my home but unfortunately it is not because the foot bridge that I have to use is quite a distance away.

I cannot really use my car because there are no parking spaces to use near the Surgery and I cannot justify the cost of mini cabs because my Doctors Surgery is the other side of the Railway line and there are only 2 road bridges over the line locally.

Both of the bridges are about a mile in either direction from my home so I really have to walk to get there using a nearby footbridge because the route using the road bridges make getting a mini cab to do a return journey too expensive - it would involve actually driving away from the area where the Surgery is located - crossing a road bridge then driving back a longer distance because of the way the roads on the other side of the railway line run.

Also because of my physical limits meaning that I cannot exercise my physical condition / everyday situations gets worse - my muscles don`t get exercised so they get gradually weaker meaning that I will get even less `mobile` and cannot mobilise - a `catch 22` scenario.

Sorry for the very long message and the `off topic` details about my physical problems and details about going to my Doctors Surgery - although I can only type using one finger I got carried away while writing this reply to you.

Thanks again for your interest - the information about your weight loss amount and your kind reassurance I really appreciate it.

Chris
 
My wife was non diabetic, but weighed over 18 stone and was bedbound. I took over the cooking etc, and I provided LCHF (not keto) for the two of us. Both of us lost about 8 stone and went back to the weights we were when we married. So even a low carb diet can lose a substantial amount of weight and it is nothing to do with diabetes. Five years on, and I am still registering a BMI of 21 and it is steady. I neither calorie count nor carb count, but I do go for LC meals that I know from experience are good for me. Saves a lot of faff when shopping and preparing to have known go-to's in the freezer.

On the other aspect of your post, I have been using a mobility scooter for over 6 years since I retired. It is one that can fit in the boot of the car, and it allows me to shop and get to the doctor's for appointments. I can drive around the shops in it and most shops will be accessible. Most wheelies nowadays will do 15 miles on a charge, so you could manoevre the road bridge if it has a pavement. And it costs pennies to run - no road tax or insurance, no petrol, no MOT.
 
When i originally did Keto i suffered from (wrongly diagnosed ) Peripheral Neuropathy. I could only walk about 100 metres on bad days and have to stop and massage legs for a couple of minutes before going on again. So i didn't do much exercise and was quite sedentary. I still lost the weight without any problems. shortly after doing Keto i was diagnosed as pre-diabetic, i think wrongly as my months of Keto probably affected the HBA1C, so i think i was Diabetic much longer than when i was later diagnosed.
Much later a proper diagnosis of Peripheral Artery disease, and a femoral artery bypass massively improved things. The only problem regarding exercise now is sheer laziness
 
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