HOW DIFFICULT IS IT TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE ...

... between giving 'advice' and giving an 'opinion''?

There seems to be great confusion on this forum between the two words in quotes above.

Advice can be interpreted, especially by vulnerable people as a direction to follow, coming from an expert on a particular matter. Advice is a very powerful word and suggests the giver is an expert on the matter.

Opinion is a less powerful word, and doesn't have the connotation that a person should agree, disagree or mimic the opinion of the giver. An opinion is simply a statement of how one person feels about a particular topic or situation.

Advice givers tend to be intolerant of others opinions whereas opiniers tend to accept that others have opinions too, which they may or may not agree with.

A forum such as this is not and should not become an advisory service because that changes it's structure and purpose and it's powerbase.

A forum should be a place where people of different levels of understanding can openly share their opinions without fear of ridicule, sarcasm or personal attack. A place where different opinions are welcome whilst the members understand that no-one who is expressing an opinion is asking another person to agree or disagree.

There are people on the forum, for example, who follow different diets and some who object sarcastically when one person who follows a particular diet and has had success with it, offers information on that diet to another member who has requested information on diet. What possible point is there in confusing newcomers with sarcastic remarks?

Rather than responding with sarcasm, why can't that person simply respond to the questioner by offering their alternative diet.

Diabetes, as far as I know, is not an exact science. This is not a competition about who'se been here the longest, who knows the most or whose opinions are the most valid. But that's what it feels like sometimes.

Sensitivity is another issue here. There have been sarcastic comments about people such as myself who have expressed that they would not wish to view posts regarding the complications of diabetes at least until they'd got to grips with the basics and got over their initial shock.

This was perceived as people like me wanting to bury their heads in the sand and ignore the dangers, which is totally untrue. There were also comments that people who didn't receive information about complications as soon as they walk through the forum door, would be unlikely to bother taking their condition seriously. That again is untrue. There are many people, like myself, who take the condition seriously from the start, work hard to get to grips with it in a methodical way and who don't want to get side-tracked by going down roads they don't need to go down initially, just because someone else wants to lead them there.

Just as I would object to someone giving me a plate and loading it up with a pile of food that was way too much to digest at one sitting I would also object to anyone loading me with information I didn't feel I could digest at any particular moment.

Sometimes when we know a subject inside out we want to share it all as quickly as possible with those we feel don't yet know enough. And all with the best possible intentions. And what WE wanted and needed in the way of information when we were first diagnosed and what we believe OTHERS want and need when they are first diagnosed - are two very different things.

That's why knowledge and the ability to pass on information isn't enough - there has to be sensitivity to how it will be received added to the equation.

Sadly, some people have been unable to see that.

catherinecherub said:

Dear Grace,

Until people can understand we are all different there will be disharmony, here and everywhere else. Opinions are like backsides, we all have one. Advice given may be acceptable for someone or may not but should come from a knowledgable person. We then have the dilemma as to who decides that someone is knowledgeable? Whilst we all strive to be an expert in the management of our own diabetes, we cannot manage this condition for other people because we do not know that person, their physical and mental state, other illnesses they may have, (not always divulged), their level of fitness, their understanding of what we post, etc....the list is endless.
Each of us is unique and we have our own preferences, thoughts, desires, needs, abilities and goals.

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Catherine ... that's my point exactly ... we none of us know the emotional, physical or mental state of any newbie who comes here for information ... so it's vital in my opinion that we exercise sensitivity where information is concerned. That includes where certain sensitive information is placed on the forum and who has automatic access to it and it what timeframe from joining the forum.

There is a lot to take in for the newly diagnosed diabetic and we must remember that what information they RECEIVE has to be their choice, not ours.

So to me at least, it makes sense to have for example a BASIC INFORMATION section, an INTERMEDIATE INFORMATION section and an ADVANCED INFORMATION section, and perhaps newcomers could be accepted into the BASIC INFO section to start with and when they request to be included in the next section they should be shown how to request that and that is then THEIR choice, not ours to shower them willy nilly with too much information all at once.

Those headings I've chosen above are simple examples, I know they may not be perfect, but they're just to illustrate the idea of leaving the choice of what kind and how much information - with the newcomer.

There are sensitive subjects such as menopause, sexual problems, diabetes complications which may not perhaps be suitable for or welcome in the general part of the forum but which nevertheless need to be discussed. I would much prefer to see them set aside in their own section and where anyone who wishes to join those discussions would need to ask to join them. That way we would know for sure that a person is ready for that particular topic, and not that we're foisting it on them.

These things take planning and discussion and it's very difficult to do that online with all the misunderstandings and misinterpretations that happen. Perhaps those who run the forum could set up a SUGGESTION BOX where members could put forward their suggestions for the layout of the forum etc?

Patch said:

I'm not even gonna read that long post - the difference between advice an an opinion is in the way the receiver chooses to accept the advice/opinion.

Authority (of the giver) has an impact on how the advice/opinion is received. That can be genuine authority, or even self implied authority.

In either case - it is the responsibility of the receiver to decide how much weight that advice/opinion carries.

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Hmmm ... well there you go ... you dismissed the long post immediately ... and jumped straight to placing the responsibility on the receiver. So are you saying that self imposed advice givers have no responsibility whatsoever for how they come across? Are you saying that they don't have to look at themselves and become aware of how they might come across? Are you saying that they have nothing else to learn, especially about two-way communication?

If so, that's a really interesting viewpoint. Thank you for that. :think:

lucylocket61 said:

This is a general post, not aimed at anyone specific:

As the forum repeatedly stresses in various places that this is not a medical forum. People who post repeatedly stress that they are not giving a medical opinion or advice. Some posters have that message in their bits on the bottom of their posts. I take the words advice and opinion in the same vein.

whether someone phrases themselves as advising or giving an opinion, I look at it as a layman offering their view and experience for me to think about.

I think this arguing over use of a word is making a huge mountain out of a molehill, and causing even more disharmony and strife on this board.

The point this thread is making is irrelevant because it is made very clear by the mods and admin and posters that this is not a medical site. If a reader chooses to ignore that point, that is not our fault or problem.

It is all clearly stated here: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=5019

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If the forum states what you say it states, then why do certain posters use the word 'advice' in their signature? It gives the impression they are in some way, qualified to give advice and that they do actually think of themselves as advice givers rather than simply forum members sharing their views and experience.

They may be very, very experienced in relation to their own diabetes and that's fine, we all eventually become well experienced in our own diabetes as we do in other aspects of our lives, and there's a danger then that we also feel entitled to give advice rather than profer opinions. I know it's only a tiny word, but if someone goes away from this forum and comes to harm by following the guidance of another person on the forum who has been using the word 'advice' in their signature, there could be legal connotations to that.

My whole point about putting this point forward is not to have anyone removed from the forum, especially when they're so valuable to it, but to ensure that forum members who share views are aware of possible problems arising from the use of certain terminology.

I belong to another site, not a diabetes site, where a particular member who was very vulnerable and very ill, actually went away and committed suicide because of certain 'advice' and 'straight-talk' she was given by other members who felt she needed some 'tough love'. The fact was, she couldn't cope with their comments and she ended her life. It truly does happen.

She wasn't a child. She wasn't ignorant. She was a very intelligent and astute woman who was very sensitive and caring towards others.

And to be honest, I'd prefer to be disliked for nit-picking over an inappropriate word than see anything like that ever happen again.

lucylocket61 said:

this is getting tiresome.

definition of advice: http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/advice?q=advice and http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/advice

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Thank you Lucy ... that depicts exactly what I've been saying and what the forum is NOT here to provide.

hanadr said:

Gracew
Advice isn't an order.
It's offered and no-one is obliged to follow it. An opinion may not be any kind of helpful suggestion at all. I often try to offer suggestions to people of what might help them. I try to avoid giving my opinion on something someone is doing.

Just being pedantic about the English language
Hana

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Hana ... the reason we have different words, is because they mean different things which may or may not be perceived by the giver or the receiver ... until a court case ensues.

That's the only reason I'm being what you call 'pedantic' and what I would call 'thorough'.

There is a huge difference between 'advice' and 'opinion'.

Advice suggests 'this is my opinion AND I think you should follow it'. There is also an element of authority attached to the giving of advice as well as an element of responsibility on the part of the giver.

Opinion suggests ... 'this is my opinion ... I could be right, I could be wrong ... and I'm not suggesting you join me in my opinion, I'm merely stating it as such.'

AMBrennan said:

DISCLAIMER: MY POSTS SHOULD NOT BE INTERPRETED AS ADVICE OR DIRECTION. I PUT FORWARD MY PERSONAL OPINIONS AND EXPERIENCES AND DIETARY CHOICES WHICH I'VE FOUND BENEFICIAL TO ME.

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That's suspiciously similar to your typical quack Miranda warning:

These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

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You're either giving advice (or making statements that will be taken as advice by new/confused/desperate people) or you're not. If you say how great you're doing with supplement X or diet Y, then this will obviously result in people with similar issues trying the same. If you don't think that that's good (evidently the case since you feel there's a need for a disclaimer), posting it anyway and hiding behind a disclaimer is :thumbdown:

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Oh come on now ... hiding behind a disclaimer?

I'm stating very clearly that I am not giving advice or direction to anyone. I am making it clear that I am giving personal opinions based on personal experience of what works for ME and only ME. And you'll find there are very good legal reasons for those 'typical quack Miranda warnings'.

lucylocket61 said:

GraceK:

Your disclaimer is in capital. As has been discussed in another thread, using all capitals is considered shouting and offensive under internet etiquette rules.

I am a sensitive soul and am upset by you shouting at me every time you post.

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Do internet etiquette rules also include forum members pm'ing others in private about what they think of their posts, Lucy?

I'm a sensitive soul too and believe me I can tell even in text when someone has it in for me and has their eye on every post I make just so they can pick holes in it and come back with yet another criticism. And I appreciate that personality clashes happen even on forums.

But I won't stop posting Lucy. I won't stop offering my opinions and I certainly won't be bullied in pm either. As I've mentioned before, there is a facility in the User Control Panel for those who wish to ignore another poster for whatever reason.