How Low Carb is Low Carb

Winnie53 said:

I support all diets that work including the diet described in Joel Fuhrman's book, The End of Diabetes, which is a whole foods, plant based, lower fat, higher carbohydrate diet and Joe Cross' videos on how to restore health via juicing, also a higher carbohydrate diet.

Why? Because ketogenic and low carb researchers Phinney and Volek, have stated repeatedly that 10% of their research subjects do not respond well to a low carb diet. They do better with a higher carb diet. I know people like this.

Additionally, I myself alternate back and forth between the low carbohydrate high fat diet and the low carbohydrate ketogenic diet. I stated that in post #14.

Oldvatr our views are actually aligned most of the time, and I greatly appreciate your thoughtful, informed contributions here. Additionally, why are you defending a book you haven't even read? Particularly when I didn't mention or attack it?

Again, totally confused.

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I was neither defending or decrying that book or the author, only I analysed press reviews and other forum appraisals (DUK mainly) to see if the book would take the OP down the full keto path, and I found I could not make that connection, so IMO the subject of keto was not of primary need and thus the 30g / 90g carb intake was in fact probably academic anyway.

I think I am just a bit sensitive to comments I used to receive from others when I said I was aiming for 50g.day, and was told it had to be <20g or the diet does not work. Your earlier post shows this is not a view you hold, and we are generally in agreement. We both seem to flip in and out of ketosis at will and are happy with this.

Incidentally science studies have established that a high carb, VERY LOW fat diet does work for some diabetics, but the secret is keeping the fat lower than usual. It seems to be the combination of high carb, high fat that is so deadly for T2D.

@Oldvatr I personally continue to be wary of low fat diets. I don't understand how the brain can function well without intake of omega 3 fatty acids from cold water fish and pastured, grass-fed beef. Perhaps those who do well on low fat diets are better at converting nutrients from plants into fatty acids.

Researcher Dale Bredesen, M.D. is coming out with his book, The End of Alzheimer's: The First Program to Prevent and Reverse Cognitive Decline, in August. It's been a while since I read his 2014 study in which they reversed Alzheimers in 9 out of 10 study participants using diet, nutritional supplements, and exercise, but I don't think they're using a low fat diet: [Approach 1 of 36 in listed in table]: "Goal: Patients given choice of several low glycemic, low inflammatory, low grain diets. Approach: Optimize diet: minimize simple CHO, minimize inflammation. Rational and References: Minimize inflammation, minimize insulin resistance." http://www.aging-us.com/article/100690/text#fulltext My mom is in the process of being formally evaluated for dementia. She's trained in the sciences and wants to try the Bredesen's protocol. Hoping it works well for her and helps the rest of our family learn how to protect and preserve brain function.

When I founded our local diabetes group, I chose to help members to find the diet that works best for them. Most of our members use a variation of the low carb or ketogenic diet, but we have one member who chooses to use more of a Joel Fuhrman/Joe Cross/Michael Greger approach to diet. We don't know if it's working or not though because so far he's chosen to not monitor his glucose levels or have regular lab tests done. I think he is now though. I learned yesterday that he is working with a functional medicine practitioner now, so that's good.

Oops - think this was probably my fault - the only reason I mentioned ketosis was that C56 mentioned that she was feeling tired during/after exercise. It seemed to me that it might be a case of getting (what we used to call in the cycling world) the "knock" when your muscles just run out of fuel. My own experience is that when I am in ketosis and my metabolism has adapted to using fat as a source of energy, I don't get this so much.

So I was just suggesting a consideration of using ketosis to get round the issue, rather than advocating it as a universal cure-all, 'cos I know that everybody is different. I think that everybody who has contributed to this thread has made reasoned, valid and valuable contributions so if I have poked a stick into the hornets' nest, I apologise.

W53, thinking of you and I am sure that your friends appreciate the support that you give them.

Hi All,

Interesting discussion on Keto or Not, but can I just remind everyone that this thread was started by @Cinderella56 about her experiences as a newcomer to low carbing.

Remembering when I was just starting out, I would have found keto debates and technical discussions rather intimidating.

So I just wanted to ask Cinderella if she had any more questions?