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HUMALOG, APIDRA INSULIN USERS!

A

~Anna~

Member
Messages
8
Location
England
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Hi there! :wave:

I am on a basal/bolus regime, using animal insulin (for my basal, which I recently changed from Lantus (thank God)), and I am also using Humalog, for my bolus.

After spending hours on this website lol :oops: , reading threads about testing regularly (1 and 2 hour PP levels), reducing carbs etc, I have made important changes to my Diabetes management!!!!

This has led me to notice after testing blood sugar levels thoroughly, that I have to inject Humlaog 75 mins beforehand, to coincide with the spike of my blood sugars, which is within the hour after Ive eaten something.
Ive tested regularly and it seems the drop in mmols begins at 90 mins, odd, since Humalog is a rapid acting insulin.

I'm looking into using a bolus insulin which has a short(er) profile, and has a quicker onset to the one I'm currently using.

Looking at this Insulin wall chart, Apidra seems to work slightly faster than Humalog (and Novorapid):
http://www.diabetes.org.uk/Documents/Magazines/Insulinwallchart.pdf
(*apologies, I'm not too sure how to link that page)

Insulin users who have switched from Humalog to Apidra have you noticed this quicker onset/peak?
What are the pros/cons between both insulins for you?

I understand medication will work differently between individuals, but if there is a general consensus that Apidra peaks quicker than Humalog I'll be making a change to my bolus insulin!

Ciao!
 
Hi Anna!

I've never used Humalog, but do use Apidra. It does work quickly for me - but still not quickly enough to catch the immediate spike that e.g. cereal causes. I jab about 20 minutes before breakfast, but still sometimes get that spike. Apidra's action finishes by 3 hours for me with a peak at about 2 hours, so it sometimes misses the late rise I get from protein. I was actually pondering whether I could use it in conjunction with a short-acting to get that protein rise down. You kind of know where you are with Apidra - it has an aggressive onset at about half hour, peaks at about 2 hours and is gone within 3 - well that's how it works for me anyway. Sorry I can't be more help, but I'll also be interested in people's responses.

Smidge
 
Your goals may be a bit too ambitious, contrary to what some people may suggest (Bernstein, again) it's quite normal to have some spike in BG after eating. You do not need to keep your BG at 4.0 exactly 24/7.

In case you've read his book, I'd suggest not following his advice for speeding up the action of insulin.
 
smidge said:
Hi Anna!

I've never used Humalog, but do use Apidra. It does work quickly for me - but still not quickly enough to catch the immediate spike that e.g. cereal causes. I jab about 20 minutes before breakfast, but still sometimes get that spike. Apidra's action finishes by 3 hours for me with a peak at about 2 hours, so it sometimes misses the late rise I get from protein. I was actually pondering whether I could use it in conjunction with a short-acting to get that protein rise down. You kind of know where you are with Apidra - it has an aggressive onset at about half hour, peaks at about 2 hours and is gone within 3 - well that's how it works for me anyway. Sorry I can't be more help, but I'll also be interested in people's responses.

Smidge
Click to expand...
Hi Smidge, appreciate your msg regarding Apidra. No no, I think you've done more than enough, and I have decided to try out Apidra for several months, until my next appointment at the Diabetes clinic, in February...

I've also read several topics regarding both analogue insulins and it seems many users do think Apidra kicks in relatively quicker than Humalog. Im grateful in that, I don't get blood sugar rises (from food) lingering more than 2 hours...Usually the spike happens within the hour.
However, with Humalog, I find that it tails off in the 4th hour, I feel thats too long of a profile...I'm hoping what Apidra does for you, will work for me too lol (I can only hope :) )
 
I have no experience of Humalog.. but Apidra is slightly faster acting than Novorapid perhaps 15 mins or so... the real difference is the tail.. Apidra in me stops pretty much around the 2.5 hour mark.. I can / could use it to be more aggressive with +1 to +2 hour post meal readings without fear of +4 hour hypo..

That said if your really serious about +1 and +2 hour readings then it much easier to achieve by just not eating processed carbohydrates.. pretty much all my carb's come from the meet / diary I eat or fruit / veg.. occasionally beans / pulses / etc... no bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, etc...
 
AMBrennan said:
Your goals may be a bit too ambitious, contrary to what some people may suggest (Bernstein, again) it's quite normal to have some spike in BG after eating. You do not need to keep your BG at 4.0 exactly 24/7.

In case you've read his book, I'd suggest not following his advice for speeding up the action of insulin.
Click to expand...
Hi!
Umm, no I don't think I'm being too ambitious. Regularly testing blood sugars: pre, post 1 & 2 hour meals I have noticed a trend, I'll give you an example of the results I was and I'm now getting:

Oats, milk, tea: (Injecting insulin with meal)
Pre meal: 7.2
1 hour pp: 18.3
2 hour pp: 10.4
3 hour pp : 3.3

Oats, milk tea: (Injecting insulin 75minutes before meal)
Pre meal: 6.9
1 hour pp: 10.2
2 hour pp: 8.8

Lasagne, bruschetta: (Injecting insulin with meal)
Pre meal: 6.3
1 hour pp: 20.2
2 hour pp: 14.5
3 hour pp: 8.9


Lasagne bruschetta: (Injecting insulin 75minutes before meal)
Pre meal: 7.9
1 hour pp: 12.8
2 hour pp: 9.8

As you can see, I have vastly improved on the 1 postpandrial reading by making an adjustment, that being injecting 75 minutes beforehand.
Although my results could further be improved on, which I am currently doing, hence the reason for this thread (possibly switching to Apidra) I am satisfied with my results.

As I mentioned in my initial post, I have read many threads and I did come across Dr Bernsteins name being thrown around (I'd never heard of him before spending time reading from this site), from those who were working on a similar diet plan as instructed by Bernstein, to those ciritcal of his overzealous diabetes management. Kudos to him though, for achieving such great results. That being said, I haven't read any of his books....yet. lol. Although I am new to low carbing, what I have acheived so far I am very pleased with. At a later stage....I may take on board the principles of Dr Bernsteins low carbing diet/managing diabetes.
 
Ok, I apologize. I had assumed (since the difference between Humalog and Apidra isn't that big) that the peaks were minor and were looking for a minor tweak to reduce them further. :oops:

However, I really don't think that those figures are typical. Might be worth trying Apidra just to see if it's a random fluke with the Humalog.
 
Hello Anna

I appreciate yr attempts to get yr 1hr bg level after eating food to not be too high but I think if you ask HCPs what type of control you should aim for they will say to try and make sure that yr 2hr level is within a safe target...and dont worry about the 1hr level.

I would not want to inject bolus insulin 75mins in advance myself as half the time, I'm not really sure what carb I am going to eat anyway so would only do what you are doing if there was literally no other option. Have you thought about eating alternative foods than the ones you listed........I notice from yr msg that you eat porridge made with milk for breakfast. Porridge is well known for causing high bg levels but one way of eating it is to put some large flake porridge in a bowl and add a very small amount of cold water to it and then wait a min and then stir it together and then add a heaped dsp of thick live yogurt to replace the milk. The beauty of eating porridge this way is that the porridge will still be large flake and hasn't swelled up so causes less of a rise in bg. I also add a tsp of white chia seeds to it and that also helps to keep bg a bit more stable.

Regarding Apidra.... I can confirm that it does have a faster onset than Humalog and Novorapid and it also has a shorter duration as I used it with Levemir. Other than that.... you could try to change your diet or see if you could use a pump.
 
Hi Anna!

I can really empathise with your BG figures at 1 and 2 hours, because mine would be the same if I ate the high carb foods you mention. I think you might find Apidra helps you with this - especially if you are prepared to inject two smaller doses instead of one larger one. However, I think the biggest impact would be to reduce the carbs as low as you can tolerate and use smaller doses of insulin overall. This is exactly why I keep my carbs to 50g or less a day.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Smidge
 
Hey AMBrennan!

AMBrennan said:
I can really empathise with your BG figures at 1 and 2 hours, because mine would be the same if I ate the high carb foods you mention.
Click to expand...
That's because you're not taking insulin, duh.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand the post (above). I take Apidra with every meal and Levemir twice a day (just swapped from Insuman basal). I never miss my doses, so I don't know why you think I wouldn't take my insulin? :crazy: I have LADA and it cannot be managed in any other way - if I didn't take my insulin I would end up in hospital or worse!

Smidge
 
smidge said:
Hey AMBrennan!

AMBrennan said:
I can really empathise with your BG figures at 1 and 2 hours, because mine would be the same if I ate the high carb foods you mention.
Click to expand...
That's because you're not taking insulin, duh.
Click to expand...

I don't really understand the post (above). I take Apidra with every meal and Levemir twice a day (just swapped from Insuman basal). I never miss my doses, so I don't know why you think I wouldn't take my insulin? :crazy: I have LADA and it cannot be managed in any other way - if I didn't take my insulin I would end up in hospital or worse!

Smidge
Click to expand...

In your profile it states you're a T2 who takes oral meds, so I guess that's why AMBrennan posted the above.

This is a very good thread, I too have huge spikes one/two hours after eating, initially I was given Humalog Mix 50, I've NEVER seen normal levels one/two hours after a meal, but then I've never taken more than 10 units so I guess that has something to do with it.

I've been since given NovoRapid which I find works faster for me, I can see lower readings within two hours, but then I am taking more units as it's not a mixed solution.
 
Thanks GlazedDoughnuts!

I've corrected that now - can't remember ever setting that and it was completely wrong! Anyway, I did state clearly earlier in the thread in response to the OP that I am on Apidra, so I would have thought that gave a clue :lol:

Smidge
 
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