Hypurin Porcine Insulin

Hi dgw.
Welcome to the forum. Take a good look around especially the Insulin Pump Forum area. I am sure someone who has the answer to your question will be along soon.

Ken.

Hi, I changed to Hypurin Porcine follwing 4 1/2 years of hell on Lantus (glargine). I too, had been on synthetic 'human' insulins previous to that and had never been offered animal insulin. I was diagnosed in 1989.
My health has improved drastically, I have a lot more energy, and feel like a different person to the one I was while on Lantus. I was like drugged up zombie, couldn't think straight and my memory suffered too. I felt so ill some days I could barely function and felt like I was being poisoned. My blood sugars were up/down and all over the place, never knew what was going on.I have been in contact with many people, some of them on this forum who also report huge improvements to their health following the change to animal insulin.
I hope some of them will reply to you on this posting.
In my opinion doctors are being neglectful by ignoring patients' concerns and continuing them on a regime or insulin that clearly does not suit them. The push to change people to 'analog' insulins is unnecessary and suspect. If you choose to switch to animal insulin, there is no just reason why your doctor should refuse. You should contact the IDDT (insulin dependent diabetes trust) for advice, they have a helpline number and email which is on their website.
Best of luck
Justine

Hello

I changed back to Hypurin Porcine Neutral & Isophane a month ago & wish I had done so earlier. When diagnosed in 1970 we only had the choice/option of Porcine insulin.

I had debilitating side effects from Analogues particularly Lantus & it is no exaggeration to say that I was virtually bed ridden & this was distressing because I had always been such an active individual.

Taking porcine insulin initially has the same warnings as taking human or analogue insulin i.e. you might get a localised reaction at the injection site. - I personally had no reaction at all.

Although I am not familiar with an insulin pump I would recommend commencing the Porcine Insulin in the morning rather than at night because you will need to test your blood glucose levels frequently.

If you have been taking a basal analogue such as Lantus or Levemir which has a very flat profile you will possibly feel the peaking effect of the Neutral – initially when I changed back I got a slightly flushed feeling in my face – but it was fantastic because I knew the insulin was actually working!

Hypo symptoms have returned & I describe them as “proper” hypo symptoms not pseudo ones or hypos that plummet your blood sugar from 10 to 2mmols in 30 seconds! :cry:

Energy levels have soared – am back swimming and walking. Joint stiffness in the morning has virtually gone.

The most significant change for me has been the lifting of the horrid “foggy, toxic feeling” I had had for 4 years – I can only describe it as trying to function with a gold fish bowl on your head! That has completely gone.

Memory deficit has improved slightly – I still get an occasional word mixed up or cannot grasp a word from my memory that I want but maybe that’s just due to my age! :lol:

I cannot comment on the gastroparesis as I do not suffer from that.

All in all I feel so much better.

Good luck with the switch. In my personal opinion and experience if you have made the right switch the results are noticeable quite quickly.

All the best

Tracey xx

You know not to bang on about this, but I wonder if this is also c-peptide related? Since the animal insulins contain a form of c-peptide. :?

Hi Monica

Please correct me if I have interpreted this incorrectly.

I am assuming that you would like to try Porcine Insulin & you can get a supply but you need it to be prescribed?

Who provides the input to your diabetes is it a physician in hospital or a physician in a primary care practice. If the primary care practice has several physicians & you see the same one and he/she refuses to prescribe animal insulin you are entitled to see another. :idea:

Do you or an insurance policy pay for the insulin?
I am aware that in the US animal insulin is not cheap and the FDA and USDA make it difficult (though not impossible) to import it.
In the UK animal insulin on prescription is actually much cheaper than synthetic insulins.

What have your A1C results been like because you can always use that as leverage to initiate change. :idea:

Any doctor regardless of which country they work in must give a valid reason why they would not consider a trial of Animal insulin.
You may get told incredulous statements including
“we don’t know how to manage patients on animal insulin” – :evil: well in that case health professionals you need to learn!
“you are on the best regime possible” – :evil: well clearly not if your quality of life is severely impaired and you are having difficulties maintain good blood glucose levels.

Have you contacted the US division of the IDDT? :idea: They are based in Michigan.
The website gives you email contact etc.
http://www.iddtinternational.org.uk/iddtinternational/us/index.htm

They also have details regarding Pork insulin available without a doctor's letter so its worth perusing the website.
http://www.iddtinternational.org.uk/iddtinternational/us/Pork_insulin_available_online_without_a_doctor%27s_letter-2.html

Hope you managed to get things this sorted.

All the best

Txx

I'm oddly fascinated by this idea.

What idea are you oddly fascinated about?

I have had diabetes type 1 for about 22 years .I initially used actrapid and Ultratard, but about 4 years ago Novo Nordisk stopped manufacturing Ultratard. So My doctor in his infinite wisdom put me on the analogue insulins Novorapid and Lantus.
This change has been disastrous, for the past year or so I have been suffering from aching joints, especially the knees. Carpel tunnel syndrome (stiff finger joints) in the mornings. arthritis like symptoms in the fingers especially the right thumb, mole like growths in various places on the body and IBS.
My left knee was x-rayed and the doctor proudly claimed that I was suffering from arthritis.
I changed to Levemir about 6 months ago. (My own idea, NOT the doctor's, It took me that long to put two and two together) Most of the symptoms of the so call arthritis disappeared.The mole like growths stopped and most disappeared naturally.
But I suspect that the Lantus has severely weakened my body, because I still suffer from IBS .
My doctor who is supposed to be a Diabetic specialist does not believe that the Lantus can cause these symptoms.
I changed to hypurin Porcine insulin recently to see if that improves my health from using the Levemir ( Levemir is an Analogue insulin after all, although not as dangerous as Lantus ).
I think If I had started using Levemir straight away, 4 years ago, none of these symptoms would have occurred. Although this may have not been possible as it was introduced more recently than Lantus.
Lantus is a real Poisonous load of dangerous toxic waste as far as I'm concerned.

Gjimmy said:

This change has been disastrous, for the past year or so I have been suffering from aching joints, especially the knees. Carpel tunnel syndrome (stiff finger joints) in the mornings. arthritis like symptoms in the fingers especially the right thumb, mole like growths in various places on the body and IBS.
My left knee was x-rayed and the doctor proudly claimed that I was suffering from arthritis.
I changed to Levemir about 6 months ago. (My own idea, NOT the doctor's, It took me that long to put two and two together) Most of the symptoms of the so call arthritis disappeared.The mole like growths stopped and most disappeared naturally.

Click to expand...

Hi GJimmy, welcome to the club!
Well done to you for posting this! I hope many people read it and it rings a bell with them. God only knows how many people on analogue insulins are misdiagnosed with illnesses that are related side-effects. My misdiagnoses was Fibromyalgia, by a leading "expert" in the field :lol: , depression by 2 diabetes consultants, and IBS :evil:
You are so right, unfortunately the effects of these drugs do have lasting consequences, and doctors will still not acknowledge these problems exist :twisted:
All we can do is make sure that as many people, especially young people, are aware of these side-effects and that they are NOT explained away as being part and parcel of being type-1. Keep it out there
I strongly believe that it will " all come out in the wash" as they say, but how many people's life's will be negatively affected in the meantime is anybody's guess Animal insulin is the safest option in my opinion.
Jus x

I've used both types human and animal and not had a problem with either, and hubby actually gets on better with human than he did with animal, and he used to build up anti-bodies to the animal insulin so would have to change.. This hasn't happened with the human!

I did notice that you've got gastroparesis, so it's not surprising that you are having problems with your control,

I really do doubt that changing to animal insulin will resolve this at all, as well insulin is insulin human or not it all works in the same way, and if you have problematic emptying of the stomach and unperdictable adsorbtion of carbs then Animal isn't going to resolve this at all...

It's not surprising that if you are having frquent hypo's etc, that you feel lousey, hypo's do train a lot of energy out of the body...

jopar said:

I've used both types human and animal and not had a problem with either, and hubby actually gets on better with human than he did with animal, and he used to build up anti-bodies to the animal insulin so would have to change.. This hasn't happened with the human!

I did notice that you've got gastroparesis, so it's not surprising that you are having problems with your control,

I really do doubt that changing to animal insulin will resolve this at all, as well insulin is insulin human or not it all works in the same way, and if you have problematic emptying of the stomach and unperdictable adsorbtion of carbs then Animal isn't going to resolve this at all...

It's not surprising that if you are having frquent hypo's etc, that you feel lousey, hypo's do train a lot of energy out of the body...

Click to expand...

There are two main type of human insulin, regular and analogue. It's the analogue ones that are allegedly causing all the fuss. Insulins like the long acting Lantus and Levemir and the rapid acting types like Novorapid etc..
Analogue insulins have been genetically altered by changing their basic DNA structure. This has the effect of either Making them act slower or quicker depending on the DNA chain that has been replaced. Many people including myself find these analogue insulins to be an excellent diabetic control mechanism. My glucose control was truly excellent when using these types of insulin.
Unfortunately because of the "tinkering" with the DNA structure, it leads to a double edged sword.
Diabetic control is improved greatly, but the modified insulin binds to the bodies insulin receptors in such an aggressive manner that ALL cells in the body eventually suffer. To put it in simpler terms it's as if a vice like grip has been put onto the cells to make them behave in a way that is not natural to them. consequently people suffer debilitating side effects in areas of the body that wouldn't normally suffer if a natural insulin closer to normal human insulin is used.

This poor fellow suffering from gastroparesis has not been looking after himself very well.
gastroparesis can be a sign of Diabetic damage to the vagus nerve . He's only 20, so for this much damage to occur in such a short time, is very worrying.
Vagus nerve damage can be reversed by taking extremely large doses of lipoic acid. I do mean very large doses. 100's and 100's of mg daily.

Hi GJimmy,
Can't agree with you more, and regarding the probs with analogue insulins there's no allegedly about it- these insulins DO cause dreadful side-effects for many people, I've met and been in touch with plenty of them, and it's always a familiar story unfortunately. I dread to think what the future holds for patients For many people these insulins do or appear to control blood sugars, but it can often take months, even years for side-effects to appear; by this time the patient has been on the analogue insulin for a long period of time and t is very rarely suspected for the problems occuring.
I've been type-1 for over 22 years ,and I think things are getting worse for patients not better; less choice of insulin types should be a real concern for all. Novo Nordisk plan to discontinue ALL their "human" insulins in the near future. Take a look at the IDDT website for more info- Mixtard is the next on the hitlist- to be discontinued http://www.iddt.org/?s=mixtard
Jus

What I can't understand is, if so many people are suffering from all these side effects, why aren't the diabetic doctors and nurses doing anything about it ?
Don't they read the posts on this site or what ?

To give an example I recently visited my diabetic doctor who I usually see once a year. I paid him a visit unannounced because of the terrible side effects of Lantus.
I explained the symptoms that I had . He just dismissed each symptom (with a smile on his face) as normal arthritis and IBS etc etc.. He even said that he'd just prescribed a new patient with Lantus that very day ! The poor sod.

Maybe these doctors are taking back handers from Sanofi Aventis ? Either that or they are just completely stupid !

Without this web site to back up my claims I would be up the creek without a paddle !
Does anybody know how many Lantus patients suffer from side effects in the UK ?

Hi again Gjimmmy
Welcome to my world :lol: It's a puzzle isn't it why these side-effects are either being not recognised or deliberately ignored by some medical professionals. I'm not the only person to have had a strange reaction from my diabetes nurse over this issue-I believe they DO know. Do you know that Lantus is Germany's biggest export? Drugs suchas Lantus have not been around long enough for anyone to know whether there will be long-term problems. People are reporting the same things with Lantus; exhaustion, depression, muscle/joint pain, cognitive problems, digestive/bowel probs, etc; so it's no co-incidence. I feel the same as you when I hear of newly diagnosed people being put on Lantus, but expecially for kids
As for how many people are suffering problems on Lantus, who knows as many will not have even made the link, or think they have Fibromyalgia, IBS, etc, etc........
I've been pretty slack on keeping records of people who've contacted me, I must sort that. The IDDT are the best people to contact about this issue, the charity was set up after the founder's daughter suffered a reaction to synthetic "human" insulin.
You should report the side-effects you've suffered on Lantus to the MHRA Yellow Card Scheme. Sorry don't have the link, got to dash to pick my son up from school.
take care
Jus

This is very interesting. I have been on analogues longer than I care to remember, and they have worked pretty well at controlling my blood sugar to be honest. Reading through teh thread, I noticed there was a post about being diagnosed with arthritis...butthis being down to lantus? I understand in that case, this was "diagnosed" by changing insulins, and the effects going away. Does anyone know if there is any other way?

I have joint problems, and although it has not been directly linked to diabete, the surgeon who sorted out my "trigger thumb" did say that diabetics are more prone to this type of thing. I just put it down to bad luck, and to e honest, the link between diabetes and other conditions is so common (heart disease etc) it never occured to me that it might be the insulin?

It may well not be anything to do with the insulin, and I have used them all, lantu, novorapid, levimir, but I wondered if going "cold turkey" ie changing to a differen isulin was theonly way of isolating analogue insulins as the cause?

Hi Sugar2,
It's definately worth thinking about. Don't know about turkey insulin though :lol:
Changing insulin would be the only way of finding out whether it's causing your pain.
Porcine and Bovine inslulin work fine though for many people and no side-effects.
What insulin are you on now, and are you suffering any of the other probs mentioned in this thread?

Gjimmy metioned being mis-diagnosed with Arthritis, I was misdiagnosed with Fibromyalgia. The most commonly reported pain people report on Lantus is in their shoulders and arms. People also report developing skin growths and lumps. I had a small lump surgically removed from my foot 2 yrs ago at Barts- I first noticed it 2 years earlier in 2006 when I was on Lantus. I, too had pains in my finger joints, and am left with swollen knuckles on 2 fingers. I can't say for definite Lantus was to blame, but I suspect it might be.

With so many people on analogue insulins, I wonder how long it will be that it is just accepted, as your doctor said, that joint pain and other side-effects are explained away as part of the condition. Type-1 diabetics of the future may have perfect BG control, but could potentially have a much poorer quality of life. :cry:
Jus

Hi,

I am Novorapid in a pump now...and my symptoms are still there, but alot less than they used to be. This could of course be because my control is better now as well...but worth a look.

My sypmtoms are basically joint pain, frozen shoulder, trigger thump, painful hip, painful knee. As these occur at different times, I have been offered things to sort them indivisually. Current niggle is frozen shoulder...going for a massage on Saturday to see if that helps...sick of having minor operations to fix these things. I will discuss this at my next appointment, but from what you have aid, I am guessing I am not going to get very far. My consultant is certainly not the type to try and fob me off, but I suspect I will get, "may, but these are small side affects of keeping your blood sugar under control" rather tahn a complete denial of the idea. I guess, if there was no alternative, then I would go along with this...but knowing that there is, means I will push a little harder.

Thank you!

Hi,
If you decide to change to Porcine or Bovine insulin, there's no reason why you can't use "neutral" (short-acting) in a pump, many people do.
If you suggest to your consultant you want to try it for a time to see if health improves, it would be very unfair of him to refuse your request without very good reason. You might want to give the IDDT(insulin dependent diabetes trust) a ring for more info and support. Here's a link to their website. http://www.iddt.org/here-to-help/contact-us/
Best of luck with your next appointment,
take care
Jus