I don't get it..

I think as with everything people that strongly advocate one opinion over another often end up writing blanket statements which clearly as we see in the NHS's own guidelines don't work... you can not have a one fits all solution! I suspect this is what you find in the material that is linked in reversingmediabetes blog.

I think we all on this forum welcome open debate and discussion but sometimes you have to take posted discussion with a pinch or in some cases a bucket load of salt!

...but type 2 diabetics do NOT need drugs. In fact, taking insulin if you're a type 2 diabetic is one of the WORST things you can do. ...

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Even leaving aside the suggestion that Type 2 is self-inflicted, I'd also take issue with both these statements: diet (what we eat), physical activity AND medication are all tools available to managing Type 2 Diabetes. What each of us uses should be an individual assessment -- and may change with time and circumstance. All or nothing blanket statements do not apply here. Injected insulin for a Type 2 is certainly an option and for some a necessity -- call it drug, therapy or whatever... it requires a prescription, is dispensed by a Pharmacist, comes with a list of side-effects and cautions and should be treated with respect. With any intervention there should be a risk:benefit ratio determined and of course injected insulin can be used safely in the long-term.

Thanks all,

Just to agree with much of what has been said - this forum is primarily for people to share their own experiences and not to advocate that one method of dealing with your diabetes is particularly favourable compared with all the others. We also do not give medical advice or advice that could be construed as such. We would always recommend that all decisions regarding your medication and treatment are taken in consultation with your medical team. There are many ways to manage diabetes and what works for one will not necessarily work for another. Advocate your own method, by all means, but not at the expense of anyone else's.

NewdestinyX said:

...what you stated there is a myth too often promulgated on these forums. Hyperinsulinemia has never been conclusively proven to be a factor in heart disease and stroke. Total myth. ...

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Please let's not confuse the issues here... I don't see anyone talking about hyperinsulinemia until you brought it up. There is a significant difference between careful use of injected insulin and high levels of insulin -- but in case you are interested to learn more about the risks of high levels (for example)... http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/84/3/1165.short

I will say that I read many books on diabetes. There is no one doctor or writer about diabetes that I agree with totally. I have found much useful information from most of the books that I read. Dr. Bernstein does use insulin for his diabetes patients but he also checks their insulin levels along with their blood glucose levels so as not to have them taking too much. I don't follow everything that Dr Berrnstein advocates not everything the Dr. Whitaker advocates, nor Dr. Mercola but I have learned much from each one.

As for the Quote by the other doctor (I'm not sure which one it was), I don't necessarily agree with that. I think that the goal should be to get control of this disease by whatever means necessary. My blog is about my own journey with diabetes and I have learned much since starting it.

I think that doctors who have treated diabetes patients for many many years sucessfully can't be called quacks. I don't think that their patients think that they are. I guess if they had lawsuits against them or had their practices closed due to malpractice you could call them a quack.

I believe that we all should be our own advocate. I question the mainstream. I also often question the alternative. I test, I experiment. I use what works and I abandon what doesn't. I share what I've learned when I can because I am so happy to have turned things around.

Reversingmydiabetes,

I have read through your recent posts here and would ask if you have magical powers that enable you to read through the medical notes of every diabetic, with regard to the supplements that you recommend, so that you know there are no adverse effects for any of us with acute/chronic conditions and the medications that we may take for them?

You are also quite scathing of the GI/GL method and yet it works for many here, myself included. I have been diagnosed for eight years with Type2 diabetes and am using this method without any medication. I can assure you that I do not have peaks hours after eating my meals as I did extensive testing in the beginning. I peak after 75 minutes. At this time I am eating every four hours in an attempt to gain weight and I do test more often. There are some low G.I. foods that I cannot eat and we have to be aware that because a food is labelled low GI it may still not be suitable for us. To be successful with low GI you have to eat a balanced meal. Some examples of this would be, a slice of Burgen and Soya buttered toast = Unbalanced. The same slice of toast with a poached egg and grilled mushrooms = Balanced. A bowl of porridge = Unbalanced. A bowl of porridge with nuts, seeds and fruit added = Balanced.

Nobody here can manage another person's diabetes as it is a 24/7 condition requiring self management. I do not promote my method of control as per the ethos of this forum but willingly answer any questions that I can on the subject as I have researched it well.

Reversing diabetes is a term that I choose not to use as I feel a more acceptable term is that I am controlling it. It may be dormant at the moment but I am sure that a chip buttie on white bread followed by a couple of doughnuts and a large milk shake would awaken the beast into action again as there is no cure for Type2 diabetes.

Meds and/or insulin are often needed by Type2's as a diagnosis can be late in arriving. There is a school of thought that some have had the condition up to ten years before a diagnosis is made and the uncontrolled high blood sugars during that time have damaged the pancreas and beta cells. Many people feel a failure because they have to take meds or insulin but this is often through no fault of their own. We are all different thank goodness.

reversingmydiabetes said:

I will say that I read many books on diabetes. There is no one doctor or writer about diabetes that I agree with totally. I have found much useful information from most of the books that I read. ...

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This is also my approach. It is annoying, personally insulting and disingenuous to find myself characterised as if I am worshipping at the feet of a guru because I mention the name of someone whose work I respect -- respect without mindlessly following it to the letter. I think that each of us is capable of our own critical thinking... this is not like a religion or something.

reversingmydiabetes said:

I think that doctors who have treated diabetes patients for many many years successfully can't be called quacks. I don't think that their patients think that they are. I guess if they had lawsuits against them or had their practices closed due to malpractice you could call them a quack.

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I agree and think it is shameless to dismiss (using unfounded slurs and innuendo) the life-work of, in this case, an individual who is a long-term Type 1 himself, and has helped us all substantially as a pioneer of home BG testing, MDI, carb counting -- much of what we currently rely on to take control of our own Diabetes -- often against resistance from the medical establishment. He continues to this day (in his 70s?) to provide free advice alongside his clinical practice. It is a mistake to state that there are no respected endocrinologists who endorse his approach.

reversingmydiabetes said:

I believe that we all should be our own advocate. I question the mainstream. I also often question the alternative. I test, I experiment. I use what works and I abandon what doesn't. I share what I've learned when I can because I am so happy to have turned things around.

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Again I agree. We each need to decide what is best for ourselves and I am also happy to share what works for me when others ask for help or advice.

To reiterate Russ's post from earlier...

Advocate your own method, by all means, but not at the expense of anyone else's.

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To my thinking that means: tell us about what works for you BUT please do so without trying to impress upon us why you think everyone else's approach is wrong.

Yes, all we are asking is that respect is shown for each other and each others ways of doing things. As i have said many times now, we are all different. What works for one, doesn't always work for another an may infact be detrimental depending on other health issues etc.

If you are planning any changes to your regime it is always best to run them by your HCPs first.

You are also quite scathing of the GI/GL method and yet it works for many here, myself included.

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Wow! I also use GI/GL. It is a wonderful tool! I even use nutrition data website to check food that I am unsure of eating. I simply pointed out that I personally have discovered a later spike and that should be perhaps considered. A few others pointed this out to me only a few months ago. I simply thought that this may be helpful to some people who wonder, like I did, why their blood sugar seemed to still be high 4 hours after a meal. Because I made a simple and true statement that "all carbs", even low GI/GL eventually have some effect on blood sugar, I am now an enemy worth shooting down?

Because I choose to take supplements that my doctor approves of, I am an enemy here? And because I "suggested" that a supplement might be helpful to someone else, not knowing the rules of this forum on my first day here, I am an enemy here?

Again, I can only say WOW! I feel a lot of hostility here for managing my diabetes naturally. That is my choice and as for my username, it is what it is, it presents what I feel I am trying to attempt. I could have chosen "diabeticandfrustrated" if that is how I felt and trust me, some days that is how I feel.

To Pianoman, I appreciate your clarity in your above post. Very well said!

reversingmydiabetes

whitbyjet, thank you for that. I realize that I am not known here yet. I saw this post and because I had the same frustration as others with some of the advice given by the mainstream I was excited to share and perhaps have been perceived in a way that I didn't mean to perceived. I have been on Metformin myself at the beginning. It lowered my blood sugar by only about 1/10th even after my doctor doubled the dose. My Mom is on insulin and metformin. She's been diabetic for 30 years. My step dad went blind from type 1 at 50 and had so much pain from nueropathy that he regularly talked about shooting himself. He died at 58. I am quite aware of what may await me in my future. It is for exactly that reason that I have poured myself into this studying and experimenting and finding my way through. I have just as many struggles as anyone else as anyone who reads my blog would see today.

Reversing diabetes is a fine name. I've reversed mine too. Just because you can't cure it, doesn't mean you can't reverse it.

Russ----
"Please cite your source saying the DUK advocates eating 50% calories from carbohydrates?"

A confusion about websites. The DUK I was looking at was Diabetes.org.uk, not Diabetes.co.uk.The .org does indeed say half of food from carbohydrate in "About carbohydrate" . They are following NHS advice, and point people to the so called Eatwell Plate, which is a carb fest.
Diabetes.co.uk gives very different information I'm glad to say. There's only 1 section on cho that seems not to have been updated--called Diabetes and Carbohydrate. It would be confusing for someone starting out to read this and then some of the other cho sections as they are inconsistent.

CatherineCherub--

"To be successful with low GI you have to eat a balanced meal. Some examples of this would be, a slice of Burgen and Soya buttered toast = Unbalanced. The same slice of toast with a poached egg and grilled mushrooms = Balanced. A bowl of porridge = Unbalanced. A bowl of porridge with nuts, seeds and fruit added = Balanced."

Just wondered whether you think a meal can be balanced without starchy carbs? Suppose toast, egg + mushroom was 2egg+mushroom+grilled tomato---would that be balanced? If your bowl of porridge+nut/seeds+fruit was bowl of greek yoghurt+double cream+nuts/seeds+berries, would that be balanced?

Also, out of interest, what low GI foods can't you eat?

NewdestinyX said:

But what happens next to individuals who choose the ultra low carb (no med/needles) regimen is what gets weird in some (not all) cases.

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What weird thing happens?

NewdestinyX said:

I notice that people who ultra lo carb/no meds or insulin an then find a level of success on it - they often turn into 'zealots' and 'conspiracy theorists'

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oh dear, last week we were Calvinist "purists" and "elites"; this week we're Jewish fundamentalists-- I don't know where your going with this--what's next?--New Guinea head hunters?

NewdestinyX said:

.. insulin therapy. It's people's 'misuse/overuse' of it that creates the only two potential complications; hypos/stopping weight loss/weight gain. As soon as you get the dose right and keep moderating the carbs you can do anything you want -....So if you eat 'too much' - you'll gain weight. .... -- especially if you set the basal insulin (slow acting - Lantus, Levemir, etc) too high.

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This all seems like such a palaver to me, why not just ditch the carbs?
Also, for those who are not too far down the Dx road, reducing carbs can probably help your own hormones deal with things more accurately than dosing/injecting.

reversingmydiabetes said:

You are also quite scathing of the GI/GL method and yet it works for many here, myself included.

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Wow! I also use GI/GL. It is a wonderful tool! I even use nutrition data website to check food that I am unsure of eating. I simply pointed out that I personally have discovered a later spike and that should be perhaps considered. A few others pointed this out to me only a few months ago. I simply thought that this may be helpful to some people who wonder, like I did, why their blood sugar seemed to still be high 4 hours after a meal. Because I made a simple and true statement that "all carbs", even low GI/GL eventually have some effect on blood sugar, I am now an enemy worth shooting down?

Because I choose to take supplements that my doctor approves of, I am an enemy here? And because I "suggested" that a supplement might be helpful to someone else, not knowing the rules of this forum on my first day here, I am an enemy here?


Again, I can only say WOW! I feel a lot of hostility here for managing my diabetes naturally. That is my choice and as for my username, it is what it is, it presents what I feel I am trying to attempt. I could have chosen "diabeticandfrustrated" if that is how I felt and trust me, some days that is how I feel.

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Your post implied that the GI method was a waste of time because your blood sugars would remain high for several hours afterwards. I simply pointed out that this was not the case for me.

As for the supplements, people should be made aware that you cannot take all supplements willy nilly without checking any side effects and interactions if you are on other meds or have some acute/chronic conditions.

Nobody has suggested that your username is not valid. I merely pointed out that I prefer to use the term controlled and this had no implication for your forum name. That is your choice.

If you see hostility and enemy within my post then that says something about you, not me. I couldn't care less how other people manage their diabetes and I wish them every success in their chosen method.

Etty said:

CatherineCherub--

"To be successful with low GI you have to eat a balanced meal. Some examples of this would be, a slice of Burgen and Soya buttered toast = Unbalanced. The same slice of toast with a poached egg and grilled mushrooms = Balanced. A bowl of porridge = Unbalanced. A bowl of porridge with nuts, seeds and fruit added = Balanced."

Just wondered whether you think a meal can be balanced without starchy carbs? Suppose toast, egg + mushroom was 2egg+mushroom+grilled tomato---would that be balanced? If your bowl of porridge+nut/seeds+fruit was bowl of greek yoghurt+double cream+nuts/seeds+berries, would that be balanced?

Also, out of interest, what low GI foods can't you eat?

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If you are following a low G.I. diet as opposed to eating some G.I. foods then you will use all food groups. The examples that I gave were for a G.I. diet

As for the complex carbs that I cannot eat, pasta, (even dreamfields), granary bread and some makes of potatoes.

catherinecherub said:

If you see hostility and enemy within my post then that says something about you, not me. I couldn't care less how other people manage their diabetes and I wish them every success in their chosen method.

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I'm frankly confused by these statements... I accept it when you say that your intention is not hostility or enmity (?) and I sincerely appreciate your support by wishing everyone success in their own method... the bit I can't figure is the "I couldn't care less..." :?:

It seems to me a rather dismissive statement to make, and do you really mean that you don't care about how anyone else here manages their Diabetes? I can see how each of us does our own thing but do you never speak up to offer advice to others, accept advice or perhaps new ideas from others, or warn someone if you think they are doing something potentially harmful? Perhaps I misunderstood?

Pianoman,

When I say that I couldn't care less about how people manage their diabetes I mean that I don't care if they high carb/medium carb/ low carb/ follow Atkins, Bernstein, Mercola, Taubes, Mendosa, Jimmy Moore et al. They can eat anything that they like and whenever they like.. Whatever floats your boat as long as it works for you. I cannot manage any other person's diabetes, only my own. I can see I will have to scrutinise my posts more carefully before I submit them. :roll:

If you read through some of my posts you will see that I do offer advice to others even when it is not diabetes related. I cannot leave a post unanswered when a person is struggling with problems of a personal nature, stress related or wanting to vent their feelings. and also warn people about possible ill effects of certain meds and supplements and also relevant reasons why they may not be getting the results that they thought they would. Of course I do this, this forum is a support forum. The only thing that I do not do is to promote my diet as I would not presume to tell people what they must do. Self education is the key to control IMHO.
As my own method works for me and fits in with other health problems that I have there is no advice that I need at this time There may come a day when I do and I will research fully and ask advice from my Health care Team who have always served me well. If there is a question that I need to ask here then I will not hesitate to ask it. I know that I am luckier than a lot of people here because I cannot fault the care I have received since diagnosis in 2003 and I wish that it was the same for everyone here.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding that you have encountered over my previous post.

Yes, I see.. thank you for clarifying your position. It can be hard to interpret others over the internet and to be honest the only times I've heard the phrase "I couldn't care less..." used, it has invariably been meant in a petulant and dismissive way. My misunderstanding, I guess.

I've also had good success with my HCPs whom I treat with the deepest respect. And I rely heavily on my own research, which I share freely with them.

I see a significant difference between promoting my diet (the way I eat) and telling others what to do... for example you spoke above in positive terms about how your GI diet works for you... I can accept that as your promotion of a way that works for you and may be of benefit others, despite it not being a method that has proven successful for me.