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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CherryAA" data-source="post: 1541217" data-attributes="member: 327005">I agree entirely that if you are T2 and  no longer have functional beta cells, then the treatment required will be insulin.  I also agree that there are many unfortunate people with complex medical problems that require and deserve proper medical attention.My point is rather that  absent any medical tests  IF you do find that LCHF will bring down your blood sugars which you can test in a week,  then it is quite likely that that may of itself be sufficient treatment if enough weight is lost as a result. The study I have participated in showed that LCHF does work to bring down sugars and reduce any need for medication amongst the majority of T2 diabetics in the study .   27 of 29 people found that a diet of 20% protein, 20% carbs and 60% fats brought blood sugar under control and  reduced medication whilst almost eliminating insulin usage even in diabetics up to 30 years diagnosed.    - One participant had been diabetic for 30 years,  much of it on insulin and on LCHF for 6 years.  Of the two  outliers, one has already been re-diagnosed as T1 as a result of the info provided by the trial and the second is under investigation at present.Interestingly ALL participants in the study had lost weight- the mean weight was 21 kg and as such easily meets the same criteria as the Newcastle Diet.Other studies have shown that the improvement in Hba1C is closely correlated to reduction in weight in a linear fashion  between weight at diagnosis and ideal weight.   The fatter you are the more weight you need to lose to bring the  visceral fat down. In just the same way the Newcastle Diet is being said to " reverse diabetes"  - a significant proportion of the LCHF sample no longer had  ANY clinical markers for diabetes including  fasting insulin.   It is  not known if in fact those people " could eat"  carbs again as a sample- because they are comfortable with their diet as it stands - which is not true of ND because ND is necessarily a  short term solution not a long term life change.I know for me personally carbs do not have the same adverse effect on me now than they did one year ago. I don't particularly want to add them back to my diet other than in small quantities because I don't particularly miss them.It is likely that most T2 are diagnosed before they actually get to the point of having lost all beta function simply because the symptoms are usually too serious long before that point for most people.Overall therefore it is highly likely that IF LCHF does not bring down blood sugars and show immediate measurable  improvements  within say 30 days THEN further medical investigation is required.What should not be accepted is a simple statement from the doctor  for ANYBODY   which states -" you have T2 diabetes, take this medication , with or without  insulin and pop along to see the diabetes nurse. "EITHER LCHF  ( or drastic rapid weight loss via significant calorie deficit such as the Newcastle Diet  if that 's the preferred option )   and no medications is a solution of itself -OR you need proper medical assistance  to determine the clinical state of the relevant organs. In my opinion no-one should take drugs before they have tried LCHF  or ND absent the proper medical  investigations especially when the drugs themselves have so  many side effects for so many people.I also think its a pity that LCHF ever got to be called LCHF -  in reality it is quite simply a REAL FOOD diet  where you are  getting rid of  the biggest starches such as potatoes, pasta and rice just  like your grandma would have done.The component one really needs to address is not to eat too much protein -  1g per kg of ideal body weight is far less than most people eat.If you stick to the protein limit in total but eat nothing that requires a label and instead replace  the food with real proteins  - of whatever type - from a wide variety of proteins from  nuts and seeds  dairy , eggs through to  fish and meats including the fatty varieties, couple that with substantial  real vegetables - ( probably of pretty much - whatever type according to taste but recognising that the less starchy the better  ) accompany those with  substantial  good quality  oily dressings  such as avocado oil or olive oil plus a wide variety of vinegars , treat fruit as  sweets instead of staple foods  and used stable oils -  butter, lard, coconut oil goose fat   according to taste to cook with  -- Then the  chances are that your foods will turn out to be around 60% fats on a much smaller quantity of food than one has been used to eating and you will still not  be hungry.For many people if they stick to the protein limit  say 50- 80 g per day depending on natural body size and try to keep actual carbs to under 30g per day, they will find that they naturally do not add enough fats to get to the 60% part and as a result the diet will almost naturally become close to a ND restricted calorie one- where  it becomes necessary to actually consciously add  in enough fats to keep weight stable once the initial weight loss phase is over.Difference between ND and LCHFFrom cron-0-meter -  for me  ( 1.67 height female) it is clear that it is possible to achieve 99% of all daily requirements of minerals , vitamins and proteins from 30g of carbs and  60 g of protein.   I  try to stick to 100g combined maximum in a day.If that is applied to the ND 800 calorie limit - the I would end up with a diet which was 15% carbs, 30% protein and 55% fats. -- this is  exactly happens to me on my " good days"  when I found I did not need extra fatty snacks.If those very same  carb and protein restrictions are applied to a 1200 calorie LCHF diet the you end up with 10% carbs 20% proteins and 70% fats    -  that is exactly my average proportions in this clinical trial  - which will include some " good days"  and some " bad days" .sorry  if this went off the point a bit -!</blockquote>

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