Important Information for ALL Diabetic Drivers!

NorthernRose

Member
Messages
9
Greetings all Petrol-Heads!
It has taken a long time, but it’s looking like my licence will shortly be returned to me – 15 months after it was revoked on account of a head injury.
It was supposed to be a 6-month ban only. But as a Type 1, it has been a very frustrating and long-drawn out affair. Thanks to a very helpful consultant and the FOI Act, I can now warn all you drivers out there, to hopefully avoid the problems I’ve had to endure.
When you get your forms from the DVLA to reapply for your licence (mine is every 3 years), the questions are quite clear. Question 7 asks: ‘During the last 12 months, have you had any disabling episodes of hypoglycaemia while you are awake which required help from another person?’ OK – no problems here. We can all understand and answer that. This is on the DIAB1 form – the one sent to you, the patient!
BUT there is a DIAB3 form sent to your doctor/s. The question you need to know about is No.3, of which part a) asks: ‘Does your patient have a history of recurrent disabling hypoglycaemia within the last 12 months (exclude any occurring during sleep)?’
There is a HUGE omission here – lack of clarity for our overworked and often non-native English speaking doctors. It does NOT state what constitutes ‘disabling’. (Personally I would call a hypo ‘disabling’ if it happened to a window cleaner while up a ladder, that resulted in a fall and a serious spinal injury… but that’s just my interpretation!)
The DVLA do not explain that by ‘disabling’ (also referred to as ‘severe’ in their Annex 3 to Directive 91/439/EEC rulebook) they mean ‘requiring the assistance of another person’. Nor do they state that ‘recurrent’ means more than once within 12 months.
Only after nine months of hassle, a second refusal to issue my licence despite my GP and consultant assuring me they had informed the DVLA they considered me ‘medically fit to drive’, did I find out what (and who) was to blame.
BOTH my GP and consultant had ticked ‘YES’ in reply to question 3a), which meant my own answer was at odds with theirs. I’m aware that it’s a criminal offence to knowingly give false information on DVLA forms, and the fact they refused my licence meant they had made me out to be a liar! So taking the bit between my teeth I resolved to get to the bottom of it.
The FOI requests supplied the answer. My consultant (bless him) not only telephoned the DVLA, but sent them a long letter to clarify that what he had put on the form was wrong – and that he had misunderstood the question (his first language is Polish). Mind you, my GP’s first language is English, and he’d made exactly the same error!
So – take this information to your GP. Send a copy to every doctor in the entire practice. When the DVLA say ‘disabling’ (or even ‘severe’) with regard to hypoglycaemia, they mean – ‘a hypo requiring the assistance of another person.’
May you all learn this lesson in time for your next licence application. Spread the word. I very much doubt the DVLA will clarify their questions for the sake of our medical professionals, so it’s up to each one of us to do the necessary and SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!!!

Yours (soon to be back on the road - she hopes), :roll:
Rose x
 

Gappy

Well-Known Member
Messages
483
Dislikes
hypocrisy, prejudice and the corrupt legal system (never got compensation I deserved from an accident)
I'm not on insulin so not affected by this but thanks as it's a great help if my mum finds herself in this position. Also I love stories of faceless bureaucrats being beaten/proved wrong! Well done and thanks for sharing the information.
 

phoenix

Expert
Messages
5,671
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
I think this is very important . Thankyou
Hopefully doctors will get some form of information clarifying the DVLA definition of recurrent and disabling hypos (which differs for example to that required for a pump) but even so it may be worth taking a copy of the guidance with you when you see the doctor who will fill in your form.

The most recent (AUG2011) official guidance for group 1 (car motorbikes) is here

Must have awareness of hypoglycaemia.
• Must not have had more than one episode of hypoglycaemia requiring the assistance of another person in the preceding twelve months.
• There must be appropriate blood glucose monitoring.
• Must not be regarded as a likely source of danger to the public while driving.
• The visual standards for acuity and visual field must be met
Impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia has been defined by the Secretary of State's Honorary Medical Advisory Panel on Driving and Diabetes as, 'an inability to detect the onset of hypoglycaemia because of a total absence of warning symptoms'.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dvla/medical/ataglance.aspx

NB note the word total in the hypo awareness section. This is something that might be open to very varying interpretations. (for myself if exercising I can sometimes get down to 2 mmol/l before recognising a hypo, but I recognise it and act accordingly )
 

NorthernRose

Member
Messages
9
Thanks Phoenix,
You reminded me that I still owe a letter to my GP. Regarding the awareness of hypoglycaemia, on the DIAB3 form it's question 4a) which asks: 'Does your patient have impaired awareness of hypoglycaemia?' (NOTE - It does not use the word 'Total' when asking your doctor!)
But my GP failed to tick either the Yes or No boxes, instead scribbling something to the effect that normally I didn't (have impaired awareness) but that I had on one day in 2010...
This would be the day when I had a hypo, fell unconscious on tarmac and banged my head, resulting in a head injury that led to my licence being revoked in the 1st place. But he made a WRONG assumption. On that day I was only too aware that I was hypo, only I was compromised and unable to reach my glucose tablets.
I was doing voluntary work on a community transport bus that was FULL of elderly women going shopping. I was physically penned in to the only seat left, by a lady in a wheelchair that was strapped into the bus's floor with restraints, and which placed me some distance from my bag of 'goodies' - sweets, food etc.
Shame that GP's 'assumptions' can be passed off as truthful without anybody actually bothering to check the facts! When I asked for a copy of the DIAB3 form from the GP all I got was a NEURO2 form. Having seen what the GP wrote c/o the DVLA FOI request, I now understand why this form was withheld. But heh, 'truth will out' as they say!
Rose x
 

roger1

Member
Messages
5
After reading some posts here id like to ask a question about a driving accident while going hypo.I crashed into another car but thankfully none was injured and insurance claims were straightforward.I have had my licence revoked by DVLA and I was told by them I should fax a letter by my GP and Consultant with a covering letter from me to DVLA ..I have done that.In my GPs letter all it says im a well controlled diabetic and my Consultant wrote that im well controlled and very much aware of my hypos and my HB1s are good.She also stated that she would have no problem recommending me having my licence back.I did say in my report to DVLA and in my consultants letter that I was aware of going hypo on the day of my accident but before I could take action as I was on a busy main road I had an accident.It was also stated in the letter that I intend to carry short and long acting glucose and test myself always before driving.Can anyone tell me of similar experiences and what they think the likelihood is of getting my licence back..thankyou.
 

noblehead

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
23,618
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Pump
Dislikes
Disrespectful people
Difficult to answer Roger, the DVLA will assess all the information and write to you in due course with their decision.
 

jopar

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,222
Roger it's difficult to say..

But have you got any meter readings that tally with the accident, which confirms that you did test before driving your car, and the results shows that you activity test as standard practice, that proves the hypo you suffered was unexpected and against the norm!

I noticed that my hospital/clinic has changed it's lay of the letter to the GP, it used to contain the just my test results, and a briefing on my appointment... Now it includes, more details of control, such as my basal/bolus ratio, corrections factor and hypo awareness ability etc... (very useful for the DVLA) they are able to do this, because they download all my insulin pump and blood glucose meter readings to analyse...

I also download and keep a hard copy as well, never know when it might come in handy for proving that I've taken every reasonable action to ensure that I'm safe to drive...
 

roger1

Member
Messages
5
Can I ask if you went hypo at the wheel and or did you have an accident with another car?..as this is what has happened to me recently and now i ve had my licence revoked.do you know what i can expect after ive sent a positive letter to DVLA from my consultant and GP and myself in support of me driving again.
NorthernRose said:
Greetings all Petrol-Heads!
It has taken a long time, but it’s looking like my licence will shortly be returned to me – 15 months after it was revoked on account of a head injury.
It was supposed to be a 6-month ban only. But as a Type 1, it has been a very frustrating and long-drawn out affair. Thanks to a very helpful consultant and the FOI Act, I can now warn all you drivers out there, to hopefully avoid the problems I’ve had to endure.
When you get your forms from the DVLA to reapply for your licence (mine is every 3 years), the questions are quite clear. Question 7 asks: ‘During the last 12 months, have you had any disabling episodes of hypoglycaemia while you are awake which required help from another person?’ OK – no problems here. We can all understand and answer that. This is on the DIAB1 form – the one sent to you, the patient!
BUT there is a DIAB3 form sent to your doctor/s. The question you need to know about is No.3, of which part a) asks: ‘Does your patient have a history of recurrent disabling hypoglycaemia within the last 12 months (exclude any occurring during sleep)?’
There is a HUGE omission here – lack of clarity for our overworked and often non-native English speaking doctors. It does NOT state what constitutes ‘disabling’. (Personally I would call a hypo ‘disabling’ if it happened to a window cleaner while up a ladder, that resulted in a fall and a serious spinal injury… but that’s just my interpretation!)
The DVLA do not explain that by ‘disabling’ (also referred to as ‘severe’ in their Annex 3 to Directive 91/439/EEC rulebook) they mean ‘requiring the assistance of another person’. Nor do they state that ‘recurrent’ means more than once within 12 months.
Only after nine months of hassle, a second refusal to issue my licence despite my GP and consultant assuring me they had informed the DVLA they considered me ‘medically fit to drive’, did I find out what (and who) was to blame.
BOTH my GP and consultant had ticked ‘YES’ in reply to question 3a), which meant my own answer was at odds with theirs. I’m aware that it’s a criminal offence to knowingly give false information on DVLA forms, and the fact they refused my licence meant they had made me out to be a liar! So taking the bit between my teeth I resolved to get to the bottom of it.
The FOI requests supplied the answer. My consultant (bless him) not only telephoned the DVLA, but sent them a long letter to clarify that what he had put on the form was wrong – and that he had misunderstood the question (his first language is Polish). Mind you, my GP’s first language is English, and he’d made exactly the same error!
So – take this information to your GP. Send a copy to every doctor in the entire practice. When the DVLA say ‘disabling’ (or even ‘severe’) with regard to hypoglycaemia, they mean – ‘a hypo requiring the assistance of another person.’
May you all learn this lesson in time for your next licence application. Spread the word. I very much doubt the DVLA will clarify their questions for the sake of our medical professionals, so it’s up to each one of us to do the necessary and SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!!!

Yours (soon to be back on the road - she hopes), :roll:
Rose x
 

roger1

Member
Messages
5
I just saw your reply to my question of the problem I had..before I just asked you the same question before realising you replied..thanks!! in answer to your question I did not have a bloodglucose reading that tallys with my accident unfortuantely.
NorthernRose said:
Greetings all Petrol-Heads!
It has taken a long time, but it’s looking like my licence will shortly be returned to me – 15 months after it was revoked on account of a head injury.
It was supposed to be a 6-month ban only. But as a Type 1, it has been a very frustrating and long-drawn out affair. Thanks to a very helpful consultant and the FOI Act, I can now warn all you drivers out there, to hopefully avoid the problems I’ve had to endure.
When you get your forms from the DVLA to reapply for your licence (mine is every 3 years), the questions are quite clear. Question 7 asks: ‘During the last 12 months, have you had any disabling episodes of hypoglycaemia while you are awake which required help from another person?’ OK – no problems here. We can all understand and answer that. This is on the DIAB1 form – the one sent to you, the patient!
BUT there is a DIAB3 form sent to your doctor/s. The question you need to know about is No.3, of which part a) asks: ‘Does your patient have a history of recurrent disabling hypoglycaemia within the last 12 months (exclude any occurring during sleep)?’
There is a HUGE omission here – lack of clarity for our overworked and often non-native English speaking doctors. It does NOT state what constitutes ‘disabling’. (Personally I would call a hypo ‘disabling’ if it happened to a window cleaner while up a ladder, that resulted in a fall and a serious spinal injury… but that’s just my interpretation!)
The DVLA do not explain that by ‘disabling’ (also referred to as ‘severe’ in their Annex 3 to Directive 91/439/EEC rulebook) they mean ‘requiring the assistance of another person’. Nor do they state that ‘recurrent’ means more than once within 12 months.
Only after nine months of hassle, a second refusal to issue my licence despite my GP and consultant assuring me they had informed the DVLA they considered me ‘medically fit to drive’, did I find out what (and who) was to blame.
BOTH my GP and consultant had ticked ‘YES’ in reply to question 3a), which meant my own answer was at odds with theirs. I’m aware that it’s a criminal offence to knowingly give false information on DVLA forms, and the fact they refused my licence meant they had made me out to be a liar! So taking the bit between my teeth I resolved to get to the bottom of it.
The FOI requests supplied the answer. My consultant (bless him) not only telephoned the DVLA, but sent them a long letter to clarify that what he had put on the form was wrong – and that he had misunderstood the question (his first language is Polish). Mind you, my GP’s first language is English, and he’d made exactly the same error!
So – take this information to your GP. Send a copy to every doctor in the entire practice. When the DVLA say ‘disabling’ (or even ‘severe’) with regard to hypoglycaemia, they mean – ‘a hypo requiring the assistance of another person.’
May you all learn this lesson in time for your next licence application. Spread the word. I very much doubt the DVLA will clarify their questions for the sake of our medical professionals, so it’s up to each one of us to do the necessary and SHOUT IT FROM THE ROOFTOPS!!!

Yours (soon to be back on the road - she hopes), :roll:
Rose x