Type 2 Information needed

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 11, 2017

I am a recent Type 2 but managing my diet changes myself through education and on no meds.I have read the long report on the forum titled "The cure for Type 2 Diabetes" and feel that I am on the right track with his thinking. I only use Olive oil for cooking and an oil called Argan oil culinary type for putting on salads. I also have a cold pressed virgin rapseed oil on the shelf, which I have used for cooking. Can anyone tell me if this oil is safe to use as he says in the report that rapeseed is a no no. Yet on the other hand it says that cold pressed oils are ok. Does he mean to use it for cooking or only to drizzle on salads as a food?

Also can anyone help in finding out if Palm oil used in a Tesco 'free from milk' brand of soya spread, an alternative to butter.

Deleted Account · Aug 11, 2017

I don't know how good rapeseed oil is for diabetes.
However, I recently read an article explaining that "refined" oils are ones that have been treated most. Hence why extra virgin olive oil is considered better than refined olive oil.
Rapeseed is a crop that was originally grown as animal feed. Then, it was discovered that, through extensive refining, it could be consumed by humans. As someone who likes to eat food as close to how it is naturally produced as possible, this has put me off Rapeseed oil.

Guzzler · Aug 11, 2017

As heating oils changes the molecular structure then I use cold pressed olive oil and cold pressed rapeseed oil for dressing. For cooking I use butter, suet, goose/duck fat or lard because I am no longer scared of sat fats. I avoid all highly processed oils because transfats are so, so bad. This goes for margarine or spreads, too, I've gone back to butter.

bobrobert · Aug 11, 2017

JAMESEY_1 said:
I am a recent Type 2 but managing my diet changes myself through education and on no meds.I have read the long report on the forum titled "The cure for Type 2 Diabetes" and feel that I am on the right track with his thinking. I only use Olive oil for cooking and an oil called Argan oil culinary type for putting on salads. I also have a cold pressed virgin rapseed oil on the shelf, which I have used for cooking. Can anyone tell me if this oil is safe to use as he says in the report that rapeseed is a no no. Yet on the other hand it says that cold pressed oils are ok. Does he mean to use it for cooking or only to drizzle on salads as a food?

Also can anyone help in finding out if Palm oil used in a Tesco 'free from milk' brand of soya spread, an alternative to butter.

I don't think there is a cure for diabetes. Haven't read the article myself but surprised that such a claim would be made on this site.

Bluetit1802 · Aug 11, 2017

Cold pressed olive oil and rapeseed oil are good because of the omega 3 content. It is refined vegetable oils that are bad, not specifically for diabetes, but our health in general.

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

Guzzler said:
As heating oils changes the molecular structure then I use cold pressed olive oil and cold pressed rapeseed oil for dressing. For cooking I use butter, suet, goose/duck fat or lard because I am no longer scared of sat fats. I avoid all highly processed oils because transfats are so, so bad. This goes for margarine or spreads, too, I've gone back to butter.

I agree that heating changes the molecular structure of the oil and it is this change that produces the transfats that block the cells from vital nutrients. What is not made clear from the manufactures of these oils, and there are a vast number on the market, that there is no definitive data on which oils we should use for cooking purposes. Top of the charts there is coconut oil, olive and rapeseed which are labelled as being beneficial but they are still oils. My feeling is that the WHO keep moving the goal posts in what is okay or not okay to consume. Oil is oil and if you heat it, it changes its structure, which may be bad for us. Maybe these oils should not be used at all to cook with, or maybe use a light spray of olive oil or even a small amount of butter instead. Use the cold pressed virgin oils as a food over salad etc and not use these for cooking. I don't think using goose fat or lard is good because it is high in saturates but agreed it does produce lovely roast potatoes!! It is the same with wine. It was in the news recently that red wine is bad for us yet the grape is full of antioxidants and it is those antioxidants that help reduce the bad free radical oxygen molecules in our bodies, so a glass of red wine with a meal must be okay then?
It is a bit of a minefield out there and one has to be sensible and do some research but not become too paranoid. Reducing the fat off meat will also help reduce the trans-fats too. My grandmother and mother used to cook with what is regarded these days as all the wrong ingredients yet they lived to a good age with really no real health problems. I feel that since around the middle of the 1900's our food industry has changed dramatically. It now produces more and more refined and processed food. The agriculture and farming processes have also dramatically changed. The chemical changes that have been given to our meat industry over the past years have now worked there way into the human body causing in my opinion changes in our chemical make up.
In the long term it would have not been known how these processes, that the farmers, food and the medical industry carried out, would affect us in the future. I am sure that no real danger was or is intended from 'improvements in technology' to our food
.A way of feeding the world is now becoming a real problem so more and more deviation from the real natural food is inevitable. This is why today, more people are becoming ill with, in some cases mystery illnesses. Our bodies are just chemicals ordered in a way to make us what we are. It is shown that by altering just a simple chemical molecule it can cause cells to become dysfunctional. It is about being educated but also a need for the real truth of what we are consuming and that is difficult to find out there.
Doctors don't seem to help as they have their own ideas and stick to what the WHO have said. So we are left with forums like this, which give various opinions for us to further ponder on.

Resurgam · Aug 13, 2017

I use groundnut oil for frying due to its high smoke point temperature for anything where most of the oil is left in the pan, but for adding oil where it will be absorbed or eaten with the food I use extra virgin olive oil.
I do cook gently, though, partly due to using heavy cast iron cookware which takes time to heat up, so the food simmers gently over a low heat rather than singeing on the outside. I do turn up the heat to crisp or brown meats for the last minute or so, but I don't like it 'crozzled' as my family describe it, too overdone.

Guzzler · Aug 13, 2017

JAMESEY_1 said:
I agree that heating changes the molecular structure of the oil and it is this change that produces the transfats that block the cells from vital nutrients. What is not made clear from the manufactures of these oils, and there are a vast number on the market, that there is no definitive data on which oils we should use for cooking purposes. Top of the charts there is coconut oil, olive and rapeseed which are labelled as being beneficial but they are still oils. My feeling is that the WHO keep moving the goal posts in what is okay or not okay to consume. Oil is oil and if you heat it, it changes its structure, which may be bad for us. Maybe these oils should not be used at all to cook with, or maybe use a light spray of olive oil or even a small amount of butter instead. Use the cold pressed virgin oils as a food over salad etc and not use these for cooking. I don't think using goose fat or lard is good because it is high in saturates but agreed it does produce lovely roast potatoes!! It is the same with wine. It was in the news recently that red wine is bad for us yet the grape is full of antioxidants and it is those antioxidants that help reduce the bad free radical oxygen molecules in our bodies, so a glass of red wine with a meal must be okay then?
It is a bit of a minefield out there and one has to be sensible and do some research but not become too paranoid. Reducing the fat off meat will also help reduce the trans-fats too. My grandmother and mother used to cook with what is regarded these days as all the wrong ingredients yet they lived to a good age with really no real health problems. I feel that since around the middle of the 1900's our food industry has changed dramatically. It now produces more and more refined and processed food. The agriculture and farming processes have also dramatically changed. The chemical changes that have been given to our meat industry over the past years have now worked there way into the human body causing in my opinion changes in our chemical make up.
In the long term it would have not been known how these processes, that the farmers, food and the medical industry carried out, would affect us in the future. I am sure that no real danger was or is intended from 'improvements in technology' to our food
.A way of feeding the world is now becoming a real problem so more and more deviation from the real natural food is inevitable. This is why today, more people are becoming ill with, in some cases mystery illnesses. Our bodies are just chemicals ordered in a way to make us what we are. It is shown that by altering just a simple chemical molecule it can cause cells to become dysfunctional. It is about being educated but also a need for the real truth of what we are consuming and that is difficult to find out there.
Doctors don't seem to help as they have their own ideas and stick to what the WHO have said. So we are left with forums like this, which give various opinions for us to further ponder on.

I agree with all you have said except for the saturated fats. As you say, our older relatives cooked with sat fats and ate the fat on meat and a lot of them lived to a ripe old age. I have researched this so called 'fear of fat' including its birth with the report from Ancel Keys. His research didn't stand up to scrutiny but left a legacy of change in our modern views and certainly changed the way out meat was farmed in that customers shopped for leaner meat. Cholesterol is a dirty word for me, big pharma has made billions pushing statins and the food industry likewise has made a huge profit promoting cholesterol lowering products. Why on earth would you put a healthy fifty year old man on statins for life to lower his cholesterol when there is very little evidence (one boffin puts it as low as 1% ) that statins lower the risk of cvd?
You are right, it is a minefield out there and we, ordinary people, shouldn't have to research every biteful of food we eat but until the day comes that we can trust the food manufacturers and big pharma then this is necessary, unfortunately.

Resurgam · Aug 13, 2017

My completely healthy husband was put on statins some years ago, and he changed into a grumpy old man within weeks. My sister's husband was prescribed statins when he retired, and he went from a happy outgoing and active person to someone sitting staring at the TV all day with hardly a good word for anyone.
The Victor Meldrew effect is not one which is described as a side effect on the packet, but they should come with the warning in large red letters.
My husband has decided to stop taking them, and in a week his disposition is very much altered - I just hope it goes on and I get back the man I knew.

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

JAMESEY_1 said:
I agree that heating changes the molecular structure of the oil and it is this change that produces the transfats that block the cells from vital nutrients. What is not made clear from the manufactures of these oils, and there are a vast number on the market, that there is no definitive data on which oils we should use for cooking purposes. Top of the charts there is coconut oil, olive and rapeseed which are labelled as being beneficial but they are still oils. My feeling is that the WHO keep moving the goal posts in what is okay or not okay to consume. Oil is oil and if you heat it, it changes its structure, which may be bad for us. Maybe these oils should not be used at all to cook with, or maybe use a light spray of olive oil or even a small amount of butter instead. Use the cold pressed virgin oils as a food over salad etc and not use these for cooking. I don't think using goose fat or lard is good because it is high in saturates but agreed it does produce lovely roast potatoes!! It is the same with wine. It was in the news recently that red wine is bad for us yet the grape is full of antioxidants and it is those antioxidants that help reduce the bad free radical oxygen molecules in our bodies, so a glass of red wine with a meal must be okay then?
It is a bit of a minefield out there and one has to be sensible and do some research but not become too paranoid. Reducing the fat off meat will also help reduce the trans-fats too. My grandmother and mother used to cook with what is regarded these days as all the wrong ingredients yet they lived to a good age with really no real health problems. I feel that since around the middle of the 1900's our food industry has changed dramatically. It now produces more and more refined and processed food. The agriculture and farming processes have also dramatically changed. The chemical changes that have been given to our meat industry over the past years have now worked there way into the human body causing in my opinion changes in our chemical make up.
In the long term it would have not been known how these processes, that the farmers, food and the medical industry carried out, would affect us in the future. I am sure that no real danger was or is intended from 'improvements in technology' to our food
.A way of feeding the world is now becoming a real problem so more and more deviation from the real natural food is inevitable. This is why today, more people are becoming ill with, in some cases mystery illnesses. Our bodies are just chemicals ordered in a way to make us what we are. It is shown that by altering just a simple chemical molecule it can cause cells to become dysfunctional. It is about being educated but also a need for the real truth of what we are consuming and that is difficult to find out there.
Doctors don't seem to help as they have their own ideas and stick to what the WHO have said. So we are left with forums like this, which give various opinions for us to further ponder on.

Guzzler said:
I agree with all you have said except for the saturated fats. As you say, our older relatives cooked with sat fats and ate the fat on meat and a lot of them lived to a ripe old age. I have researched this so called 'fear of fat' including its birth with the report from Ancel Keys. His research didn't stand up to scrutiny but left a legacy of change in our modern views and certainly changed the way out meat was farmed in that customers shopped for leaner meat. Cholesterol is a dirty word for me, big pharma has made billions pushing statins and the food industry likewise has made a huge profit promoting cholesterol lowering products. Why on earth would you put a healthy fifty year old man on statins for life to lower his cholesterol when there is very little evidence (one boffin puts it as low as 1% ) that statins lower the risk of cvd?
You are right, it is a minefield out there and we, ordinary people, shouldn't have to research every biteful of food we eat but until the day comes that we can trust the food manufacturers and big pharma then this is necessary, unfortunately.

Someone who agrees is refreshing to know. Not enough people are willing to stand up to big pharma who seem to find a pill for every malady and if there is no malady they make up one. The reason I said about taking the fats off meat is because of the extra fat on the meat is a preference I do because I like my meat lean. However, I had been also swayed by the talk that the extra fat on meat is also bad for you. I contradicted myself in knowing that my parents and grandparents ate the fat without problems I know that! It is so easy to be swayed by the media marketing today.
I thought I was a healthy bloke who watched his diet and did pay attention to all the healthy options. As with all men over a certain age we put on weight. I was concious of this. I went to the doc's for something minor and was then told I must have a man check up. This was the start of being told I had T2.
I am not a fan of the medical industry and to be told I was borderline and at the moment it was to make lifestyle changes and to reduce my BS figure made me concerned as I am not in favor of taking pills as I am aware of all the side effects. So at the moment I am being even more concious in finding out all I can in doing this myself. Unfortunately the Doc's still require check ups every now and again and I do get concerned when I have to go.

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

Resurgam said:
My completely healthy husband was put on statins some years ago, and he changed into a grumpy old man within weeks. My sister's husband was prescribed statins when he retired, and he went from a happy outgoing and active person to someone sitting staring at the TV all day with hardly a good word for anyone.
The Victor Meldrew effect is not one which is described as a side effect on the packet, but they should come with the warning in large red letters.
My husband has decided to stop taking them, and in a week his disposition is very much altered - I just hope it goes on and I get back the man I knew.

This must have been very noticable for the change to be effective in a matter of weeks. I hope that he continues to improve. I hear stories like this all the time and it makes you wonder , should we be giving control of ourself to the third party medic who really knows very little about us but pigeon holes us into one of those medical boxes that patients get put into and we then become another statistic. Then we are the victims of more pills to cure the effects of the first pills?

Resurgam · Aug 13, 2017

You only put on weight because you follow the 'healthy eating option' as laid out for us.
I was 40 lb heavier when following a strict diet for lowering cholesterol. One more pound and I will be under 16 stone, and I intend to go on losing weight. I have to stick to a lower level of carbs than I did in middle age, and I even fast on just water for part of the day from time to time - mostly when I see a slight creeping up on the scales. It seems to work.

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

Resurgam said:
I use groundnut oil for frying due to its high smoke point temperature for anything where most of the oil is left in the pan, but for adding oil where it will be absorbed or eaten with the food I use extra virgin olive oil.
I do cook gently, though, partly due to using heavy cast iron cookware which takes time to heat up, so the food simmers gently over a low heat rather than singeing on the outside. I do turn up the heat to crisp or brown meats for the last minute or so, but I don't like it 'crozzled' as my family describe it, too overdone.

Thank you for the post...interesting I will look into that. I have seen it in shops but never thought of using it. Thank you.

leslie10152 · Aug 13, 2017

JAMESEY_1 said:
I am a recent Type 2 but managing my diet changes myself through education and on no meds.I have read the long report on the forum titled "The cure for Type 2 Diabetes" and feel that I am on the right track with his thinking. I only use Olive oil for cooking and an oil called Argan oil culinary type for putting on salads. I also have a cold pressed virgin rapseed oil on the shelf, which I have used for cooking. Can anyone tell me if this oil is safe to use as he says in the report that rapeseed is a no no. Yet on the other hand it says that cold pressed oils are ok. Does he mean to use it for cooking or only to drizzle on salads as a food?

Also can anyone help in finding out if Palm oil used in a Tesco 'free from milk' brand of soya spread, an alternative to butter.

As soon as I hear 'processed' - I start to ask questions. How is it processed, and what is used in processing?

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

leslie10152 said:
As soon as I hear 'processed' - I start to ask questions. How is it processed, and what is used in processing?

My understanding of 'processed' is that the food item goes through a series of processes. Certain refining of the product takes place. The good things sometimes are removed and replaced by other ingredients. At the end of the process the item is no longer a natural product. Cold pressed virgin oils for example are produced by natural processes. The oils are not refined in any way and the oils are then bottled by mechanical means in the case of a factory.

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

Resurgam said:
You only put on weight because you follow the 'healthy eating option' as laid out for us.
I was 40 lb heavier when following a strict diet for lowering cholesterol. One more pound and I will be under 16 stone, and I intend to go on losing weight. I have to stick to a lower level of carbs than I did in middle age, and I even fast on just water for part of the day from time to time - mostly when I see a slight creeping up on the scales. It seems to work.

can you explain the healthy eating option because I thought that was kosher? You know salads, fish, chicken less carbs?

Guzzler · Aug 13, 2017

I only have one thing against palm oil and that is that the plants are ruining habitats. As to whether it is healthy or not, I do not know.

Resurgam · Aug 13, 2017

Low carb is good - the 'healthy eating option' includes things like the Eatwell plate and all the advice about wholemeal and brown carbs - ill advised for most but dangerous for the more mature.

JAMESEY_1 · Aug 13, 2017

Guzzler said:
I only have one thing against palm oil and that is that the plants are ruining habitats. As to whether it is healthy or not, I do not know.

Hmmm! The thing is I have noticed in my supermarket that items that used to have Hydrogenated oil in them such as all your cakes and biscuits now that name has been removed and replaced by palm oil????

I just thought it was ok in Jesus' day so it must be okay now???!!!!

Pinkorchid · Aug 13, 2017

JAMESEY_1 said:
I am a recent Type 2 but managing my diet changes myself through education and on no meds.I have read the long report on the forum titled "The cure for Type 2 Diabetes" and feel that I am on the right track with his thinking. I only use Olive oil for cooking and an oil called Argan oil culinary type for putting on salads. I also have a cold pressed virgin rapseed oil on the shelf, which I have used for cooking. Can anyone tell me if this oil is safe to use as he says in the report that rapeseed is a no no. Yet on the other hand it says that cold pressed oils are ok. Does he mean to use it for cooking or only to drizzle on salads as a food?

Also can anyone help in finding out if Palm oil used in a Tesco 'free from milk' brand of soya spread, an alternative to butter.

Guzzler said:
As heating oils changes the molecular structure then I use cold pressed olive oil and cold pressed rapeseed oil for dressing. For cooking I use butter, suet, goose/duck fat or lard because I am no longer scared of sat fats. I avoid all highly processed oils because transfats are so, so bad. This goes for margarine or spreads, too, I've gone back to butter.

Actually that is wrong about spreads they are no longer allowed to use trans fats in them most are made from rapeseed oil

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