I've become a low carb binger..

jcbman said:

I'm kinda lost.

Fat?
Does it stick to your belly, or does it pass out and you flush it away. Literally.
(And obviously I'm talking about the excess here)

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It is not usually output in the form that it went in. It does get absorbed by fibrous diet ingredients but is not a major fatberg. There are slimming products such as XLS and others that accentuate this function, but it is important to regard fat in different forms.

Firstly as dietary fat that gets broken down in the lower bowel and either absorbed or excreted- it ceases to be fat s we know it but as simpler bi-products of the breakdown process that are only partially prepared for use in the body,

Then there is choleterol born lipids and triglycerides that get either used for energy, or stored by the action of insulin in the liver and adipose tissue in the lower torso.

Then there is fat stored in the liver, pancreas etc.
This is the fat that weight loss diets try to address, and is the hardest to shift.

This is the fat that low bgl levels cause to be used as fuel instead of glucose. This fat needs to be converted to lipids in the blood when taken out of storage, and bundled up into cholesterol such as chylomicrons, VLDL, LDL and sLDL, This fat is either used as fuel or returned to the liver for either recycling, or excretion via the bile duct as waste. It has to be filtered out by the gall bladder.

So the discussion so far has oversimplified the term FAT. It is dealt with by the metabolic system, then as cholesterol in the hepatic system, then dealt with by the insulin storage process, then unbundled for use when needed in the Endocrine system, then removed from the body by the lungs, the kidneys, the bile duct, the bladder and lower bowel. At each stage there is a set of hormones and enzymes responsible for regulating their particular stage in the process, and at each stage there is the potential for faults and damage to occur. Like I say, it is not just FAT. The conversion at each stage is regulated so in an ideal body the systems handle fat in purrfect harmony, but life is never that easy.

In closing, not all fat ingested is used for energy. not all the excess fat is stored as unsightly body handles and bumps. But modern lifestyles, eating habits and sedentary low activity all conspire to overwhelm the body which malfunctions

So, the op is eating too much fat, (cheese) and not losing weight, 'cos the fat is being making them not lose weight.
Ok

jcbman said:

So, the op is eating too much fat, (cheese) and not losing weight, 'cos the fat is being making them not lose weight.
Ok

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For the first time in this discussion I find myself in agreement with you. Yes, if you study the LCHF diet plan then indeed one increases fat to maintain or gain weight, and reduce the fat to encourage weight loss. It is the secondary control function in the diet plan where carb intake controls bgl almost directly, and fat controls energy levels and saiety when in keto mode, and controls weight gain/loss as a longer term goal. It is possible to use protein to gain weight, but as protein becomes glucose (where fat does not ) then the control of bgl levels becomes harder. This is why fat is more often advised when in LCHF. Other keto diets such as Atkins have their own methods.

I use this method for weight control, and I share my journey over the last 3 years when I switched to an LC diet. I find 67 kg to be my most comfortable target value. I am no longer using LCHF or keto myself, but I apply the same principles to my current lifestyle.

Oldvatr said:

For the first time in this discussion I find myself in agreement with you. Yes, if you study the LCHF diet plan then indeed one increases fat to maintain or gain weight, and reduce the fat to encourage weight loss. It is the secondary control function in the diet plan where carb intake controls bgl almost directly, and fat controls energy levels and saiety when in keto mode, and controls weight gain/loss as a longer term goal. It is possible to use protein to gain weight, but as protein becomes glucose (where fat does not ) then the control of bgl levels becomes harder. This is why fat is more often advised when in LCHF. Other keto diets such as Atkins have their own methods.

I use this method for weight control, and I share my journey over the last 3 years when I switched to an LC diet. I find 67 kg to be my most comfortable target value. I am no longer using LCHF or keto myself, but I apply the same principles to my current lifestyle.

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You can't always argue just because you feel you need to lol.

Been doing s low carb diet for 3 months now. 3 crumpets with lurpak in morning. Turkey breast and pork steak in evening with some vegetables. Eat cheese at night. Surprisingly managing to hold weigh at moment at 10 stone 8 ( I'm male 5ft 8 talk). I am beginning to believe carbs are much more of an issue for weight gain. I was 13 stone 10

Guzzler said:

Your CFS may have a direct effect as per your energy as, the last time I was talking to a close freind with the condition, I learned that the problem may have a root cause (one of a few) within the mitochondria.

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I have type 2 and cfs as well, and am a low carber addressing bingeing!

Lovejoy00 said:

Since being diagnosed a few weeks ago and going all low carb, I now realise I have replaced the usual biscuits and general carb rubbish I was binge eating with cheese and meats.

Yesterday I had basically a whole pack of Stilton cheese, and the day before a whole packet of continental meats in one sitting.

Did this happen to anyone else? In my first week I lost 2kg, and now this week I haven't lost anything. I am worried I will end up putting on more weight due to the excess fat. I know fat isn't as bad as we are all led to believe, but excessive fat surely is?

However, the good news is, my post meal sugar level rarely exceeds 6.0! I found out yesterday a few Nairn Oat Biscuits didn't make a lot of difference.

So, what is more important, a healthy sugar level or losing weight? I know they are both important, but should one be priortised?

Sorry to ramble on!

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Your diet should help you achieve good blood sugar levels and also loose weight (provided you are overweight in the first place)
You are on right track to replace all those carbs.

Lovejoy00 said:

Since being diagnosed a few weeks ago and going all low carb, I now realise I have replaced the usual biscuits and general carb rubbish I was binge eating with cheese and meats.

Yesterday I had basically a whole pack of Stilton cheese, and the day before a whole packet of continental meats in one sitting.

Did this happen to anyone else? In my first week I lost 2kg, and now this week I haven't lost anything. I am worried I will end up putting on more weight due to the excess fat. I know fat isn't as bad as we are all led to believe, but excessive fat surely is?

However, the good news is, my post meal sugar level rarely exceeds 6.0! I found out yesterday a few Nairn Oat Biscuits didn't make a lot of difference.

So, what is more important, a healthy sugar level or losing weight? I know they are both important, but should one be priortised?

Sorry to ramble on!

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The rest of the thread got a bit distracted.
How low carb are you aiming for? And how were you eating before you started making these changes.
You have probably lost a bit of water weight after cutting carbs but to be honest two weeks is not a long time in weight loss terms. You say you have been "over eating" fats but haven't gained any weight? Sounds good to me. You should find over time that your overall food consumption should go down as you start to feel satiated after eating fat. It may take a little time as your body changes from burning carb energy to utilising your fat. For the first month or so I wouldn't worry too much about calories just keep carbs as low as possible. Keep up your protein and use fat to fill you up so you aren't hungry.
As you say you are getting good blood sugar levels which is what you should be aiming for especially in the early days.

Lovejoy00 said:

So, what is more important, a healthy sugar level or losing weight? I know they are both important, but should one be priortised?

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My priority is healthy blood sugar, the weight loss was an added bonus and I find it is easier for me to lose weight when I have lower blood sugar levels.

Don't worry about what you feel is over eating fat to start with. My experience was that it does reduce after a while and that this is just a stage of part habit and part your body protesting against the reduction of sugar and carbs.

Guzzler said:

What I am saying is that to become fat adapted (meaning using fat as fuel rather than using carbohydrate as fuel) can take weeks or months depending on the individual. The OP is fairly new to low carbing and is imo in an intermediate phase. Once fat adapted the fat in the diet does not make you fat as the energy is used. In other words, excess carbs are stored as fat whereas excess fat is excreted after a while on LCHF.

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Can you point us in the direction of information that supports the excretion of excess fat? I found this and it does not support your assertion: http://rejoovwellness.com/1143/

Guzzler said:

Then we reach an impasse.

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You cannot just make grandiose assertions that can affect people’s health if you have no evidence to back them up. That is reckless behaviour.

It seems to be if you overeat, you can crack on you can over eat fat, and not losing weight isn't your fault?
And if you can drag the world into the pit with you, it proves you right?
Well, unless it was a carb, because they make you do it?

Me, if I put it in my mouth, it'll make me fat, and it wasn't the fault of the food, it was my fault for putting it in there.

That's me though, no offence to anyone like.

And I reckon I've never poohed fat straight out.

Guzzler said:

Once your body becomes used to a lowered carb intake and you are eating enough fat and protein to compensate you will find that you no longer get hungry. We are so used to eating meals and snacks throughout the day before diagnosis that the habit can be hard to break, especially the snacking habit.

A high fat diet habit will only result in weight gain if it goes alongside a high carb diet.

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I agree, stick to the macros- high fat, moderate protein and low carb and eventually the weight will move. Blood glucose is priority #1.

SockFiddler said:

Of course they won't. Carbs are a habit as much as anything else: we like to see a nice, full plate of food and when we see an emptier plate, we're instantly thinking of dessert or supper before bedtime. Just like smokers can quit the cigs but miss the habit, so it is with carbs.

Maybe the OP will continue to eat the massive stilton wheel - and more power to him. Both the first time I went LCHF and this time I've started now, I must have eaten around 30 Peperami's in a week. That's just how it goes. Eat mindfully, enjoy it, then move on.

The Fat Emperor thing is also correct - it's the actual "What happens" when we're fat adapted. A lot of it is a bit nonsensical (bodies be weird machines, eh?) but that's mostly because the guy's an engineer who specialises in processing information into models. But he's an interesting chap and if you can give yourself a bit of time to listen to one of his talks, you'll see he's a genuine fellow with a lot of really sound, up-to-the-minute sources feeding his information:

http://www.thefatemperor.com/latest-material/

In essence (though not universally), if we've managed to persuade our bodies to burn fat for fuel, our bodies aren't going to be burning AND storing the same stuff. SO what doesn't get burned gets thrown out because, guess what? There's another meal on its way and still no carbs. And we turn that fat into all kinds of interesting and fun stuff in order to get rid of it. But, the term for getting it out of the body is, exactly, "excretion" - it's not just a poop word!

You're right to be confused. It IS confusing, and it's the big diet secret that every single self-help diet book of the last 30 years, every slimming club, every nutritionist and dietician has been keeping from you. Given that you've had to stumble onto the info yourself - in the face of a lifetime of not-quite-accurate information, it's completely natural to be skeptical.

Enjoy your food. Eat without guilt. Be healthier and happier. I wish this for everyone x

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DCUKMod said:

Hello there - I think the impact of your cheese and meat consumption would depend on how much you had. A pack of cheese or meat could be lots or not too catastrophic in terms of potential to stall your weight loss; especially if this is a single incident, or contained to weekends (as opposed to a daily thing).

To your query about the prioritisation of blood scores, versus weight loss? Personally, when diagnosed my efforts were focused 100% on bringing my blood sugars into line. My view was that I would rather have healthy blood sugar scores plus love handles, than be super-slim and have blood scores that were still causing concern.

As it transpired for me, when my numbers moderated my love handles disappeared, and eventually had a challenge to halt the weight loss. Many people find this, but others prefer to focus on weight loss. In reality, we could probably get into a chicken and egg argument on this, as demonstrated by how your thread has gone. I do hope you haven't found the bickering by some to be too distracting.

Moving forwards though; I am one of these people who appears to be able to eat plenty of fat, without gaining weight, although if I do over-indulge, my tummy becomes upset, which is quite unpleasant. I'll spare you the details, but it is easy to identify the culprit. It seems I have a personal fat threshold, in terms of what I can eat.

My daily calorie intake, last I spent time checking it, varied from 2000-2500 calories a day. I am 160cm tall, weight 48kg and am not a massive, massive exerciser. For me, not all calories are equal. I can gain weight if I up the carbs, but it takes me a long time to gain on low carb, but increasing protein and fats.

We are all different. I all that I'm not trying to lull you into a false sense of security in terms of what you eat, I am merely declaring my personal experience over the 4.5 years since my diagnosis.

Looking towards your binging

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You have not really addressed the issue under discussion at this point i.e. whether fat that is in excess of the body’s energy needs gets stored or excreted.

lucylocket61 said:

thats what orlistat does. so its not a natural mechanism for fat to be undigested and pass right through?

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Indeed. Floating faeces are usually a sign of eating dietary fibre!

Osidge said:

You have not really addressed the issue under discussion at this point i.e. whether fat that is in excess of the body’s energy needs gets stored or excreted.

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Well as we know that eating fat does not make you fat then if it is not used for energy it must go somewhere so I would guess at excreted unless you have proof of some other mechanism.

lucylocket61 said:

just when I thought I was grasping something, I am lost again.

so, if I eat too much fat, it is excreted because fat adaption means it doesnt become visceral or subcutaneous fat?

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Excess fat not needed for energy is stored. The products mentioned are the products of using fat not storing it.

Osidge said:

Indeed. Floating faeces are usually a sign of eating dietary fibre!

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No, they're always the sign of the bloke that went in there before you!!!

bulkbiker said:

Well as we know that eating fat does not make you fat then if it is not used for energy it must go somewhere so I would guess at excreted unless you have proof of some other mechanism.

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The proof has already been posted that fat that is not needed for energy is stored in adipose tissue. It cannot be excreted as it is absorbed into the liver and then the bloodstream. From there it is either used or stored.

bulkbiker said:

Well as we know that eating fat does not make you fat then if it is not used for energy it must go somewhere so I would guess at excreted unless you have proof of some other mechanism.

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ROFL

You know it maybe, I'm a chubber on excess fat.
You may be slim, I'm not.

Excess fat doesn't pass through me, dream food doesn't exist for me I'm afraid.

I get fat for a reason, my mouth is bigger than my a*******