Just saw my doc

KevinPotts · May 18, 2016

My doc both pre diagnosis of T2 at the beginning of April16 and post support has been outstanding. Gets all I am doing, sees the results, is thinking "how do we get more people turning around their progressive symptoms", provides me with prescriptions for lancets and strips even though I am only controlling with diet alone.

Amazing.

Perhaps it's the luck of the draw, but I for one am very grateful.

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magsiesss · May 18, 2016

What my doc liked was that I printed out the graph that you can get with my testing machine - the first page show the "how many tests done within range, high, low, averages" etc and shows the graph too - its the graph that impressed my doctor, He had not realised the macchines could be hooked up to the PC to present such result and asked to keep my printout.

Because of the graph showing such great results, he is giving me another blood test already and if bloods are lower than 60, he will reduce my glic .... (he is also testing other stuff to find out why I am not losing any weight despite having such great results)

Catlady19 · May 18, 2016

satkins said:
I think my doctor like most knows there are medicines that can control type 2 and he doesn't want me to not go with out things like bread and cereals if I don't have to. To him its a standard of living.

Thing is, if medication alone stopped us from having highs after eating a giant bagette, there wouldn't be a problem would there? But the meds don't stop you getting highs, you have to put the work in too. I don't personally have a problem taking medication and would be delighted if I could get away with some 'naughties'!

ChrisSamsDad · May 18, 2016

bulkbiker said:
Ok so you haven't been to see your HCP to be told your Type 2 will get progressively worse and that you will end up injecting insulin and there is nothing you can do about it? ..... My practise oversight Diabetes GP had never heard of Prof Roy Taylor, the Newcastle diet or Low Carb dieting. He was worse than useless. So yes I have very negative attitudes towards some GP's. Others seem to be able to at least educate themselves or are willing to learn.. others are not and assume that they know it all when they obviously don't know much at all.

Well, Roy Taylor is doing research, as are a lot of people, into diabetes, but he's still doing it, this is a quote from him recently:

"First of all, we’re just at the beginning of this story of how to reverse Type 2 Diabetes rather than at the end of it. So far we’ve shown exactly what’s happening in diabetes and now we need to translate this into practical treatment that people can use themselves."

And yes, the first part is exactly what happened - about 6 years ago, control wasn't even an option mentioned to me, just cutting out sugar. My mother had even worse advice 10 years before - she was told Fructose was fine, so was happily eating exactly the same but with fruit sugar, maple syrup etc in place of Sucrose.

Most of the blame for the whole demonisation of fat came about by dint of one man Ancel Keys, the government system that allowed him to dictate policy and the failings of Nutritional Science for not following the scientific method. There was a very good article in the Guardian about the cautionary tale: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

ChrisSamsDad · May 18, 2016

magsiesss said:
Because of the graph showing such great results, he is giving me another blood test already and if bloods are lower than 60, he will reduce my glic .... (he is also testing other stuff to find out why I am not losing any weight despite having such great results)

Maybe you're just the perfect size

bulkbiker · May 18, 2016

ChrisSamsDad said:
Well, Roy Taylor is doing research, as are a lot of people, into diabetes, but he's still doing it, this is a quote from him recently:

"First of all, we’re just at the beginning of this story of how to reverse Type 2 Diabetes rather than at the end of it. So far we’ve shown exactly what’s happening in diabetes and now we need to translate this into practical treatment that people can use themselves."

And yes, the first part is exactly what happened - about 6 years ago, control wasn't even an option mentioned to me, just cutting out sugar. My mother had even worse advice 10 years before - she was told Fructose was fine, so was happily eating exactly the same but with fruit sugar, maple syrup etc in place of Sucrose.

Most of the blame for the whole demonisation of fat came about by dint of one man Ancel Keys, the government system that allowed him to dictate policy and the failings of Nutritional Science for not following the scientific method. There was a very good article in the Guardian about the cautionary tale: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/apr/07/the-sugar-conspiracy-robert-lustig-john-yudkin

Are you now agreeing with me?
HCP's are stuck in the past and most aren't really even interested in new research.. there a few that are.. Moseley (although he's more of a journalist) Rangan Chatterjee in the UK as well as a few others including Dr Jason Fung in Canada et al. Why are so few even reading anything new? There was me thinking that Type 2 is going to bankrupt the NHS.. well it will if they persist in given out such **** information.. It makes me furious that people are being medicated instead of educated. Even if only 10% of diagnosed Type 2's tried low carbing how much could be saved and how many amputations, eye surgeries or kidney treatments avoided.

ChrisSamsDad · May 18, 2016

bulkbiker said:
Are you now agreeing with me?
HCP's are stuck in the past and most aren't really even interested in new research.. there a few that are.. Moseley (although he's more of a journalist) Rangan Chatterjee in the UK as well as a few others including Dr Jason Fung in Canada et al. Why are so few even reading anything new? There was me thinking that Type 2 is going to bankrupt the NHS.. well it will if they persist in given out such **** information.. It makes me furious that people are being medicated instead of educated. Even if only 10% of diagnosed Type 2's tried low carbing how much could be saved and how many amputations, eye surgeries or kidney treatments avoided.

Well, you see, you're stating this as a fact, but how do you actually know that on the countrywide scale? that's the problem with arguing from personal experience. But anyway, I'm saying that they maybe shouldn't start recommending this diet/lifestyle until they're sure it's not - on the whole - going to do more harm that good. It might be that for most people it will make them worse because they'll find it too complex or just not have the commitment needed, that's not to say it can't work for individuals, it clearly does, but there needs to be more research. The medical profession doesn't change tack in a day, and nor should it.

bulkbiker · May 18, 2016

ChrisSamsDad said:
Well, you see, you're stating this as a fact, but how do you actually know that on the countrywide scale? that's the problem with arguing from personal experience. But anyway, I'm saying that they maybe shouldn't start recommending this diet/lifestyle until they're sure it's not - on the whole - going to do more harm that good. It might be that for most people it will make them worse because they'll find it too complex or just not have the commitment needed, that's not to say it can't work for individuals, it clearly does, but there needs to be more research. The medical profession doesn't change tack in a day, and nor should it.

Not sure what I am stating as a fact (apart from HCP's mostly being about 10 years behind current science). My problem is they don't really seem to recommend anyone trying anything apart from taking more tablets. In my humble opinion that's not solving the problem but treating the symptoms which helps no-one in the long term as their underlying condition remains there which is why Type 2 is considered a progressive condition. Anyway we may as well agree to differ as you are certainly not going to change my views and I'm guessing I stand little chance of changing yours. So good luck and carry on with the meds.
I hope they do you no harm.

KevinPotts · May 19, 2016

Well bulkbiker and ChrisSamsDad, it was my GP who pointed me to a low carb diet, snd would not contemplate meds before giving it a serious go, something for which I'm so grateful.

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bulkbiker · May 19, 2016

KevinPotts said:
Well bulkbiker and ChrisSamsDad, it was my GP who pointed me to a low carb diet, snd would not contemplate meds before giving it a serious go, something for which I'm so grateful.

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Your HCP is certainly the exception..

ChrisSamsDad · May 19, 2016

bulkbiker said:
Your HCP is certainly the exception..

I'd like to see your evidence for that assertion - I'm assuming you have the statistics from a large survey to hand?

carty · May 19, 2016

My GP told me that it was the medication that would control my diabetes not my diet ,so I asked him if I ate scotch pies and deep fried mars bars would I be ok ? He just said that he knew t I wouldn't do that but he still wouldn't prescribe strips for me !
CAROL

Totto · May 19, 2016

ChrisSamsDad said:
Well, you see, you're stating this as a fact, but how do you actually know that on the countrywide scale? that's the problem with arguing from personal experience. But anyway, I'm saying that they maybe shouldn't start recommending this diet/lifestyle until they're sure it's not - on the whole - going to do more harm that good. It might be that for most people it will make them worse because they'll find it too complex or just not have the commitment needed, that's not to say it can't work for individuals, it clearly does, but there needs to be more research. The medical profession doesn't change tack in a day, and nor should it.

What we do know is that eating high carb low fat makes blood sugar much more difficult to manage.

My nurse was horrified when I said I followed LCHF while my cardiologist is happy with my good HbA1c. My mum's DN forbade her to eat the skin on chicken as it contained fat but said bread without butter was fine. Mum was soon on insulin while I manage very well without any diabetes medication at all.
There is research, quite a lot in fact, and the results point towards complete lack of hard scientific evidence of the current guide lines.

bulkbiker · May 19, 2016

ChrisSamsDad said:
I'd like to see your evidence for that assertion - I'm assuming you have the statistics from a large survey to hand?

Yep all that anedoctal evidence from our pals here...good enough for me..

Cat0409_ · May 19, 2016

And thats the problem all we have is anecdotal evidence on here.
Someone needs to do a research project on those of us who are low carbing and our results.
Then and only then might there be a change in diabetes education for a start.

KevinPotts · May 19, 2016

From what Ive read on here bulkbiker, you are absolutely right, a lucky exception rather than the rule.

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KevinPotts · May 19, 2016

I am pretty sure there are hundreds of RCTs and meta analysis reviews of LC

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NoCrbs4Me · May 19, 2016

Cat0409_ said:
And thats the problem all we have is anecdotal evidence on here.
Someone needs to do a research project on those of us who are low carbing and our results.
Then and only then might there be a change in diabetes education for a start.

Some studies have already been done, but good luck changing the system. Personally, I have stopped worrying too much about the failed system and am just glad I figured out how to reverse my diabetes. It may be a mass case of cognizant dissonance. Whenever I see my diabetes nurse she remarks how healthy I look and likes my blood work results, then tells me she thinks my diet is not healthy.

KevinPotts · May 19, 2016

Yep... That discordant response from the medic is incomprehensible, not to say irrational.

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Dillinger · May 19, 2016

ChrisSamsDad said:
I'd like to see your evidence for that assertion - I'm assuming you have the statistics from a large survey to hand?

This isn't a Peer Review journal it is a support forum for people with diabetes.

If we were only allowed to make statements that have been verified by double blind studies there would be nothing written anywhere on this site.

It is not helping anyone to say 'prove it' when they offer advice on diabetes control. Try it; see if it helps, drop it if it doesn't. That's it.

n=1 is good enough for me when I consider my control versus the official advice.

Just saw my doc

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