• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Just so annoyed, with surgery, but how do you complain

daddys1

daddys1

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,353
Location
St Neots Cambridgeshire
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
HI all,
Just wanted to get this off my chest.

Went for my HbA1c blood test early this morning, not due to see Doc until the 23rd (I think) re the results.

When I was diagnosed 22 October 2014 by my Doctor, have all the usual mass of information (verbally) given to me. Also given a verbal list of DOOM.

So from memory I took note of the numbers, one of those being, Cholesterol 5.3.

I was then given meds, not a lot, but at that point I wouldn't know what I was getting.
1 x 1000mg Metformin but 20mg Symvastin for the Cholesterol.

Bearing in mind I was borderline, just diabetic, HbA1c at 46 I asked the doctor, "can this still be reversed", he said "no" I said but I was Pre just 9 months ago, he repeated "no", then looked at my Cholesterol of 5.3 (I thought) and said I would have to have the statin

Head hung down, already accelerating into depression of what I had hear, no hope, left the surgery.

It took me a little while to find this superb forum, where I think Bluetit, (if i'm wrong and it was someone else who help me, forgive me) suggested I get printouts of everything, which I did, but the Cholesterol report did not appear, I went back a few weeks later, said they could not find it, please ring in speak to nurse.

She rang and said there was "no report because no cholesterol test was done".

I saw this nurse today, and asked where did my Cholesterol 5.3 come from, she replied "2012 but it was 5.7" , I said why would the Doctor prescribe Statin's then, REPLY, "Oh that's normal if you have diabetes the Doctor will always prescribe"

Any way, said it now, need to tell the doc some how I'm not happy.

Neil
 
I think it is good to question your GP ...about your numbers ...but I believe in good relationships and they have to be a two way process ...
You would be taking a leading role here ...empowered patient ....a good thing ...

Yes some GP,s do just precribed the package metformin and statins ..that is why it is good to go back for further discussion if you feel that is the right way forward .....best wishes ..Kat
 
Just write a letter to the surgery, but you need to be absolutely clear about what you're complaining about.
 
Sorry - only just seen this thread, or I would have answered earlier

The whole reversal question is a tricky one. You will find so many different opinions. My own thoughts are that promising reversal to ANYONE is not a good idea.

It seems to work, with sufficient weight loss, for some people. Especially if newly diagnosed. But there are no guarantees. And we've had people who post on here saying 'my consultant said I would be cured if I lost weight but I've now lost so much weight he says I look like a prisoner from a concentration camp. And my blood tests show I'm still diabetic. So now I'm on drugs'.

That must be more disappointing than not being offered false hope - and I REALLY hope that consultant has learned not to offer such promises!

On the statins, it is worth doing your reading and going in prepared. Some doctors seem to prescribe statins to all diabetics, no matter how low their cholesterol. Others vary. That's based on what people say on the forum. I believe diabetics are supposed to have lower cholesterol targets than non diabetics. But again, you have to make up your own mind whether you agree with that. No one can force you to take medication, but then it's your responsibility for the consequences.

If you want to complain... Well, I agree with @AndBreathe , you need to be very clear. And specific.

I handle some complaints at work, and the ones that write 2 pages of rant, frothing indignantly about every perceived insult... well, they come over as idiots. Especially as they are usually too vague on actual detail to give something to investigate. A sensible, calm, short paragraph of polite, factual, focused detail generally gets much better handling, and better results.

Not that I'm suggesting you are likely to complain 'frothily', but thought it might help.
 
Brunneria said:
Sorry - only just seen this thread, or I would have answered earlier

The whole reversal question is a tricky one. You will find so many different opinions. My own thoughts are that promising reversal to ANYONE is not a good idea.

It seems to work, with sufficient weight loss, for some people. Especially if newly diagnosed. But there are no guarantees. And we've had people who post on here saying 'my consultant said I would be cured if I lost weight but I've now lost so much weight he says I look like a prisoner from a concentration camp. And my blood tests show I'm still diabetic. So now I'm on drugs'.

That must be more disappointing than not being offered false hope - and I REALLY hope that consultant has learned not to offer such promises!

On the statins, it is worth doing your reading and going in prepared. Some doctors seem to prescribe statins to all diabetics, no matter how low their cholesterol. Others vary. That's based on what people say on the forum. I believe diabetics are supposed to have lower cholesterol targets than non diabetics. But again, you have to make up your own mind whether you agree with that. No one can force you to take medication, but then it's your responsibility for the consequences.

If you want to complain... Well, I agree with @AndBreathe , you need to be very clear. And specific.

I handle some complaints at work, and the ones that write 2 pages of rant, frothing indignantly about every perceived insult... well, they come over as idiots. Especially as they are usually too vague on actual detail to give something to investigate. A sensible, calm, short paragraph of polite, factual, focused detail generally gets much better handling, and better results.

Not that I'm suggesting you are likely to complain 'frothily', but thought it might help.
Click to expand...
Thank you Brunneria for your very detailed reply.

I agree I did not want to be offered false hope, but when diagnosed as 'pre' 9 month earlier, I was told only to lose weight (16st 8lbs 6ft not that bad) asked me what my diet was, it contained a lot of fish & vegetables, he mentioned no complications attributable to diabetes, I had no warnings then of how serious diabetes was, just told lose the weight it will prevent you getting diabetes.

I don't just blame the Doctor here, as I should have looked up what it was all about, which I did not, but I started eating fruit which did not help me, I was losing weight and I had lost a stone when diagnosed, but then immediately told even though borderline you cannot prevent this, absolutely the opposite to what I had been told when 'Pre'.

And then, I was just so very disappointed that the Doctor had not requested cholesterol test, or even the 'Nurse' (must state here, she is not fully qualified and just does all the blood tests etc. There is not a Diabetic Nurse in our surgery, you always see the Doctor) who had to ask me to retake the original diagnosis blood tests as she had not specified to me it was a fasting test. She does have authority to specify what tests are being done on the bloods with doctors guidance, but cholesterol was not on the list, even though they were testing for everything regarding diabetes. Yet you have this situation of being put on statins on 'out of date' information. It could be that I needed extra statin, it's the fact that this prescription was made on information from 2012

Anyway thanks again, I don't think I will be writing, and do not think I will complain as such, I will just question a lot more and I realize now that these people that we seem to view in high esteem are by no means infallible.
Neil
 
daddys1 said:
Thank you Brunneria for your very detailed reply.

I agree I did not want to be offered false hope, but when diagnosed as 'pre' 9 month earlier, I was told only to lose weight (16st 8lbs 6ft not that bad) asked me what my diet was, it contained a lot of fish & vegetables, he mentioned no complications attributable to diabetes, I had no warnings then of how serious diabetes was, just told lose the weight it will prevent you getting diabetes.

I don't just blame the Doctor here, as I should have looked up what it was all about, which I did not, but I started eating fruit which did not help me, I was losing weight and I had lost a stone when diagnosed, but then immediately told even though borderline you cannot prevent this, absolutely the opposite to what I had been told when 'Pre'.

And then, I was just so very disappointed that the Doctor had not requested cholesterol test, or even the 'Nurse' (must state here, she is not fully qualified and just does all the blood tests etc. There is not a Diabetic Nurse in our surgery, you always see the Doctor) who had to ask me to retake the original diagnosis blood tests as she had not specified to me it was a fasting test. She does have authority to specify what tests are being done on the bloods with doctors guidance, but cholesterol was not on the list, even though they were testing for everything regarding diabetes. Yet you have this situation of being put on statins on 'out of date' information. It could be that I needed extra statin, it's the fact that this prescription was made on information from 2012

Anyway thanks again, I don't think I will be writing, and do not think I will complain as such, I will just question a lot more and I realize now that these people that we seem to view in high esteem are by no means infallible.
Neil
Click to expand...

Personally, I think the medics are on a bit of a hiding to nothing when it comes to diabetes. It's such a complex, individual condition with no one-size fits all treatment. Couple that with the GP's need to be across this, and so, so, so many common, long term and potentially damaging conditions, then add in NICE Guidelines which don' seem to make a load of sense to me, and where do these guys go?

I would imagine the GPs are up against it with their professional indemity insurers if they deviate too much from NICE Guidelines, and I wouldn't want to be doing their job without adequate insurance. (Actually, I think that would be considered unlawful in UK, but I'd have to look that up to be honest.)

Unfortunately, it would seem that your approach some months ago was more passive than it is now. I imagine most patients are pretty passive. We are the exceptions. I have always been a challenging patient, who wants detail and information on anything I am diagnosed with - and I will always, always, always do my own research. Without doubt, I have more time to research my conditions than my GP has. He/she has to move onto the next patient immediately I have left the room - and some of those patients will be very significantly unwell. I don't imagine for one moment any consultation I have with my GP will stick in their minds beyond the span of time I am sitting in front of them. The only exception is probably my actual GP (whom I don't often actually see), and that's only because we always have discussions about sailing and boats. He won't remeber my ingrowing toenail, or whatever I've gone with!!

Sadly, you have learned a hard lesson, but probably at a good time, in that you are well and well placed to get information, digest it and take it with you to your appointments.

I think I would agree it's probably worth chalking this up to experience and move forward. We need decent relationships with our advisors. If we have falling outs and start changing surgeries, then next could be much worse. Sadly the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
 
Your HbA1c was 46? That isn't diabetic, that is pre-diabetic. You aren't diabetic until you reach 48. Not having a cholesterol test is poor management, but putting you on Metformin with an HbA1c of 46 is lunacy. That is not within the NICE guidelines at all. NICE recommend either Metformin or lifestyle trial with an HbA1c of 48 or more.

People above are right that GP's do tend to prescribe statins to all diabetics, no matter what their personal CVD risks may be. Mine did with me. I asked her why. She replied "we put all diabetics on statins"

I would just move on and carry on doing what you are doing, but do insist on a full cholesterol test with lipids and make sure you get the print outs. Did you also get your liver and kidney function tests, plus full blood count? You should have these on statins.
 
AndBreathe said:
Personally, I think the medics are on a bit of a hiding to nothing when it comes to diabetes. It's such a complex, individual condition with no one-size fits all treatment. Couple that with the GP's need to be across this, and so, so, so many common, long term and potentially damaging conditions, then add in NICE Guidelines which don' seem to make a load of sense to me, and where do these guys go?

I would imagine the GPs are up against it with their professional indemity insurers if they deviate too much from NICE Guidelines, and I wouldn't want to be doing their job without adequate insurance. (Actually, I think that would be considered unlawful in UK, but I'd have to look that up to be honest.)

Unfortunately, it would seem that your approach some months ago was more passive than it is now. I imagine most patients are pretty passive. We are the exceptions. I have always been a challenging patient, who wants detail and information on anything I am diagnosed with - and I will always, always, always do my own research. Without doubt, I have more time to research my conditions than my GP has. He/she has to move onto the next patient immediately I have left the room - and some of those patients will be very significantly unwell. I don't imagine for one moment any consultation I have with my GP will stick in their minds beyond the span of time I am sitting in front of them. The only exception is probably my actual GP (whom I don't often actually see), and that's only because we always have discussions about sailing and boats. He won't remeber my ingrowing toenail, or whatever I've gone with!!

Sadly, you have learned a hard lesson, but probably at a good time, in that you are well and well placed to get information, digest it and take it with you to your appointments.

I think I would agree it's probably worth chalking this up to experience and move forward. We need decent relationships with our advisors. If we have falling outs and start changing surgeries, then next could be much worse. Sadly the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.
Click to expand...

Yes, & thanks for this Andbreathe, you have put it into perspective.

I can agree, I was little more passive when diagnosed 'Pre', (I'm not a passive person) but this was the first time I have been diagnosed with something significant although I didn't know it. I have been very fortunate and in the last 20 years never had a day off sick. Although, I don't fully blame them & I have to shoulder some of the blame myself, I would have preferred to have had all the dyer warnings that I got when diagnosed fully, when I was told I was 'Pre' as this at least would have spurred my on or got me me realize I needed to check it out. But I have learn't.

I didn't need to know about you ingrowing toe nail ;) but the sailing is different, :) I/we are into boats have an Cruiser on the river and sailed the Ionian twice, just myself & my wife (with a flotilla on a Beneteau 36' had a fantastic time.

Thanks once again
Neil
 
Bluetit1802 said:
Your HbA1c was 46? That isn't diabetic, that is pre-diabetic. You aren't diabetic until you reach 48. Not having a cholesterol test is poor management, but putting you on Metformin with an HbA1c of 46 is lunacy. That is not within the NICE guidelines at all. NICE recommend either Metformin or lifestyle trial with an HbA1c of 48 or more.

People above are right that GP's do tend to prescribe statins to all diabetics, no matter what their personal CVD risks may be. Mine did with me. I asked her why. She replied "we put all diabetics on statins"

I would just move on and carry on doing what you are doing, but do insist on a full cholesterol test with lipids and make sure you get the print outs. Did you also get your liver and kidney function tests, plus full blood count? You should have these on statins.
Click to expand...

Thank you Bluetit, you are right, technically I'm not Diabetic, but according to my printouts I had on the 2/09/14 HbA1c of 46 and a fasting of BG 9.2 then on the 22/09/14 a further fasting test BG 8.3, it does say on the reports that a diagnosis of diabetes should be made should there be 2 FBG levels above 7mmol/L or greater. I argued this with the Doctor (not that I knew what I was arguing as I do now) but he insisted I was, and that's probably a good thing, as I now get all the benefits, all the checks etc.

I have just been back this week for my HbA1c and specifically asked for the Cholesterol, I did not specifically ask for lipids as I presumed that would have been included anyway! The Liver, Kidney, was already on the list. Not due to see the Doc until the 23 Jan, suppose I should get my results printed before seeing him, is that what you do.

Neil
 
daddys1 said:
Thank you Bluetit, you are right, technically I'm not Diabetic, but according to my printouts I had on the 2/09/14 HbA1c of 46 and a fasting of BG 9.2 then on the 22/09/14 a further fasting test BG 8.3, it does say on the reports that a diagnosis of diabetes should be made should there be 2 FBG levels above 7mmol/L or greater. I argued this with the Doctor (not that I knew what I was arguing as I do now) but he insisted I was, and that's probably a good thing, as I now get all the benefits, all the checks etc.

I have just been back this week for my HbA1c and specifically asked for the Cholesterol, I did not specifically ask for lipids as I presumed that would have been included anyway! The Liver, Kidney, was already on the list. Not due to see the Doc until the 23 Jan, suppose I should get my results printed before seeing him, is that what you do.

Neil
Click to expand...

I suppose your HbA1c could have been showing lower if you had only recently gone above the cut off, with maybe just a few weeks of diabetic levels within those 2 to 3 months average. I agree it is better to be registered and get all the routine check ups and other "perks".

Yes, I get my print outs before I see the nurse (never seen a doc, not even on diagnosis) and I print out some of my own averages to show her. This last time my averages showed all my readings, at an hour, and at various other times in addition to before and 2hrs after. She was able to see how my one hour spikes came right down by 2 hours, and seemed more pleased with that than my HbA1c result!
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I suppose your HbA1c could have been showing lower if you had only recently gone above the cut off, with maybe just a few weeks of diabetic levels within those 2 to 3 months average. I agree it is better to be registered and get all the routine check ups and other "perks".

Yes, I get my print outs before I see the nurse (never seen a doc, not even on diagnosis) and I print out some of my own averages to show her. This last time my averages showed all my readings, at an hour, and at various other times in addition to before and 2hrs after. She was able to see how my one hour spikes came right down by 2 hours, and seemed more pleased with that than my HbA1c result!
Click to expand...

Hi Bluetit,
We don't have a Diabetic Nurse, we have a Nurse who does mainly all the pregnancy stuff, but then we have an assistant Nurse who just does injections & blood tests, the Doctors on our practice and there about 6 all see the patients re diabetes.

I use the Code Free, which I think you do also, I got the software from the Homehealth website, bought the lead to connect to the PC so I can give him those averages as I can print off from that report directly from the Code Free.

Thanks for the tips.
Neil
 
Yes I use the Codefree but I copy all my readings to an Excel spread sheet so I can separate each meal and include fasting and bedtime readings plus amounts of spikes and other data.
 
Part of the prescription process for statins is that the GPs have to get your agreement. They can't force them on you.
 
sanguine said:
Part of the prescription process for statins is that the GPs have to get your agreement. They can't force them on you.
Click to expand...
Hi Sanguine, Yes I'm aware I could have refused and he needed my agreement, but at the time I was overwhelmed with information and certainly was not aware that the Doctor was just recommending them as they are part of the Diabetic Package, we actually had a conversation re the cholesterol, I didn't know we were looking at numbers 2 years old and by that time I was dazed, over all the complications I had just digested that I could look forward too.
I will certainly approach it differently this time.

Thank you

Neil
 
Back
Top