L-arginine

I've looked into it, but never tried it.

How much are you taking, how often, and what for?

there is some info here
http://examine.com/supplements/Arginine/

mickey blue eyes said:

p.s. I couldn't eat the rest of the diet because it was loaded with nuts and berries and other high sugar stuff so I just tried the L-arginine

Click to expand...

Nuts and berries are usually low carb, so they should be fine?

mickey blue eyes said:

from what I can make of it so far (and I am relatively new to this,) it seems that carbs do get turned into sugars but we do need some to function on and taking sugary foods like strawberries fresh orange juice chocolate etc will put our blood sugar up quicker than a slow release carb like porridge oats however I also have noticed that lentils and nuts make my bs go through the roof really easily too I used to love nut roast and dahl, rice and chapatis) ,if I thought I was stressed enough before for it to make diabetes come on it certainly hasn't helped since it got here, lol

Click to expand...

I don't think we need carbs to function, and I avoid porridge. Nuts are usually ok in small quantities.

mickey blue eyes said:

from what I can make of it so far (and I am relatively new to this,) it seems that carbs do get turned into sugars but we do need some to function on

Click to expand...

There's a lot of disinformation around this. It all stems from a statement that the brain needs a certain amount of carbs per day to function.

If you delve into the research, this turns out to be around 30g per day. This can be more than handled by the body converting protein to glucose. Unfortunately, the various chinese whispers and reprints that have developed have taken this up to something like 140g per day, which just isn't true.

Fundamentally, you don't need much in the way of carbs at all. There are a couple of people on the forum (@Brunneria and @nosher8355) who live in a permanent state of eating next to no carbs and they have been doing for a long time, very successfully. They may be able to tell you more about nuts and berries. I'm T1, not T2, but I see that Nuts and Berries have limited impact on my bg levels if eaten in moderation. The only way you can really tell is to test and test again.

The school of thought that is gaining ground (even amongst professionals in the field in the UK) is that the best way to treat type 2 diabetes is eating a very low carb diet, higher fat diet.

There has also been discussion on the forum of ways to treat Neuropathy, and the inclusion of Benfotiamine and Alpha Lipoic Acid supplements are supposed to be beneficial.

Hi,

Here is a thread to a link you may find interesting.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/type-2-and-supplements-neuropathy.81636/#post-917242
Oh, and this one too
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/neuropathy-update.69662/

As for my own eating (thanks for tagging me @tim2000s ), I do try and maintain a ketogenic diet, since i find it much more comfortable than being out of ketosis - my joint inflammation, energy levels, stamina, concentration, etc. are much better in ketosis. To do this, I really need to keep somewhere in the region of 0-30g carbs a day. I do sometimes eat more, but always regret it because it just makes me feel 'meh' (thats a technical term )

mickey blue eyes said:

from what I can make of it so far (and I am relatively new to this,) it seems that carbs do get turned into sugars but we do need some to function on and taking sugary foods like strawberries fresh orange juice chocolate etc will put our blood sugar up quicker than a slow release carb like porridge oats however I also have noticed that lentils and nuts make my bs go through the roof really easily too I used to love nut roast and dahl, rice and chapatis) ,if I thought I was stressed enough before for it to make diabetes come on it certainly hasn't helped since it got here, lol

Click to expand...

Hi, yes, I'm in permanent ketosis, you don't need carbs to live. But you can't get away from them completely as they are everywhere, the trick is to eat foods that are very, very low in carbs.
I only eat food in very small proportions, if I have nuts, a handful at most, berries, two or three.
But something like porridge or orange juice, I can't touch, always rocket my blood levels even one spoonful.
The statement that we need a carb balanced diet is absolutely rubbish, unless you need some for other medical problems than blood glucose disorders.
If you are new, reduce your carbs, reduce your plate size and if you can exercise more.
When you get used to eating lower your body will respond from the healthier lifestyle.

What do you call a sudden hike? Levels up to 8.5 (depending on the person maybe higher) are a perfectly normal spike even for someone without D depending on their diet previously. Meat and salad would not digest that fast unless you are adding a high carb dressing of some sort. Met wouldn't stop the spike is just lowers your base level.

I have always eating lots of hazelnuts for the specific reason that they are extremely high in arginine. However, you must realise that dietary arginine broken down in the gut so you need quite a lot for some to be absorbed. I don;t know if the hazelnuts helped but I love them anyway and they make a great snack high in mono-unsaturated fats so raise HDL as well. What more can you ask for. There is a different supplement you should take which causes the body to make its own arginine and is the best way to get it; I can't remember its name but google should find it

mickey blue eyes said:

This is the thing I find weird about it all, people seem to have pre-conceived ideas about who gets to be diabetic, I don't sit around stuffing my face in front of the telly all day.
I am a 55 yr old man who farms for a living, I have 27 horses (amongst other animals) to look after,(which means I NEVER get a day off whether I'm ill or not) they can all run faster than me but I seem to do more walking than any of them and a hell of a lot more carrying stuff around, I won't go into a list of the manual labour jobs I do around the place running a farm on my own but I will add that I am 5' 10 inches tall and vary between 13 to 13.5 stone which is by no means obese and I know from experience that if I try to do a day fencing or shoveling poo or splitting logs etc without putting "fuel in the tank" then I will make myself ill, I tend to get the shakes when my bs goes down to about 3, what I find is that I need to eat reasonably and reasonably often and every time I eat I have to take metformin to stop the sudden hike of sugar levels, even if I eat just meat and salad, it's my pancreas that isn't functioning, not my arms and legs.
I used to be able to eat a meal and run for ages off the energy but no longer, now I have to keep stopping to re-fuel and eat less at a time, these days if I eat a big meal I tend to fall asleep after... food coma

Click to expand...

I'm not 100% sure metformin is necessarily the right match for your needs, since you are of normal weight and you seem to have quite fluctuating BG levels. Perhaps you have a different type of diabetes than T2 (there are dozens). Can you tell us what your BG readings are like over the course of a day? I could be going off on a tangent so if I am don't mind me, I'm just cautious and curious.

mickey blue eyes said:

I had no Idea there were more than two types of diabetes, in fact I'm hardly educated at all concerning it, all Iknow is that my doc sez I'm type two and that after my sis (paramedic 300 miles away) told me to go and tell him to test me, he did and my bs was 24 at the time, he got me a test kit and told me to test in the morning before bfast, which I do (sometimes) I did (with 850mg metformin, 4 times daily and 60 mg diamicron) eventually get it down to 9/10 but with stomach cramps and still the constant headaches etc, then after complaining about pains in the legs etc too I ended up on a cocktail of drugs which left me with an inability to function at all (brain fog, vertigo, short term memory loss, inability to think) and I spent a lot of time lying on the settee feeling too ill to move as every time I did I got dizzy. so eventually I stopped taking everything and started again, now I'm on 500mg of metformin 4 times daily 60mg of diamicron and have altered my diet as best I can, I wasn't taking anything for the neuropathy as I felt it better to be in pain and be able to think but I have some nerve damage to my feet and lower legs, erectile disfunction etc,... untill the L-arginine which seems to help with the neuropathy (I'm told nothing can cure it) and my blood sugar which was hovering around 10 / 12 is now down to 8 ish in the mornings, when I was first given the kit I used to test myself during the day too to see what was happening but I was getting readings of 18 ish an hour or so after eating and figured that I was screwing up my average on the meter..

Click to expand...

So is your fasting BG 8? You need to get that down some more. What foods do you eat in a typical day?

I've been taking it L-Arginine in powder form - for about a month. No miracles for me - but I feel it is beneficial to a slight degree. I got 300gm bottle of it and the recommended serving is 6gm per day on the bottle....Mixed with water or juice. I just use water. The taste is not wonderful....but it isn't bad enough to barf it up. Now for the effects after a month:

Blood Glucose - directly probably nothing - but indirectly I'd say it is slightly beneficial. On days that I exercise, I have noticed I cycle farther with less effort, or use the weights longer, or walk the dog further, than it wanted to....I very much believe that this supplement does increase endurance and improve circulation. And of course the BG drops later in the day and stays subdued the next day to a degree.....In Australian, and I presume UK terms - I drop about .5 (say from a 6.0 average for the day to 5.5) So the BG benefit is likely more to do with the increased physical activity - made possible by the improved circulation.

For neuropathy - got it in my feet - mostly toes..(in fact that was my first indication that I had diabetes 'T2' and went to a doctor about it - LOL...likely had it for a long time before that)...I took Lyrica for a few months but I really hated it - and quit taking it. So I just knocked the neuropathy back as much as I could with B vitamins which the Doc suggested from the beginning.....But the saviour for me was alpha lipoic acid.....After a month of 600mg twice daily - it knocked back the pain by at least 70%...and that has improved slightly in the months since then. No side effects either, as long as it is taken with a meal..(for me breakfast and dinner)..otherwise can get slight heartburn. It is also great at BG reduction....easily worth 1 - 1.5 points in my case.....i.e. a fasting glucose of 7.0 becomes 5.5-6.0...It is that good. I can see why a lot of European doctors prescribe it....It is certainly effective for me and without the occasional gut issues of Metformin.

Blood Pressure - No real evidence to me that L-Arginine has helped to a significant degree. I have somewhat high blood pressure which came about a year after the 'T2' diagnoses. Take Ramipril for it and that knocks it back usually below the 140/90 threshold....but it has never returned to the previous normal....Am not obese, currently BMI is 27....I would like to lose a few more kilos in the hope of reducing the blood pressure....we will see. So far my BP readings are about the same.....as pre L-Arginine. I'd like to think that it has dropped the BP ever so slightly - but nothing consistent enough for me to say for sure.

Anyway, that is my experience with L-Arginine. I will continue to take it as I certainly feel there is some health benefit. Not a huge one for my diabetes directly....But Alpha Lipoic Acid has helped considerably in that regard and allowed me to drop the Metformin which I dislike intensely. The combo of ALA and L-Arginine seems to work well....I've always been careful about diet and exercise within reason....For me ALA is definitely worth it 5-stars, and L-Arginine - 2.5 stars....But that is just me....Your mileage may vary....Talk to your doctor and maybe get him interested enough to google journals etc after you leave......