LCHF & Calorie Counting?

Hi Jo, you will need to find a balance that works best for you, some can manage 50g+ of carbs yet some can barely manage 10g have a little look on the 'what have you eaten today' section for meal & snack ideas. Are you testing bg? That will be the way you can work out what foods work for you. I hope you find the forum useful


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Sadly, it is different for every one of us.

Some people switch to low carb and the weight falls off, others have to add in exercise, or reduce the fat, or calories.

My advice would be to try it first, at a level of carb reduction you think is sustainable, and wait and see. If, after a week, you haven't seen any weight loss, then drop the carbs lower.
A week later, count calories
after than, drop calories...

But only take the next step if you need to. No point teaching your body to lower its basal metabolic rate unless you have to, eh? Otherwise you are effectively teaching it to manage on less in the long run.

Brunneria said:

Sadly, it is different for every one of us.

Some people switch to low carb and the weight falls off, others have to add in exercise, or reduce the fat, or calories.

My advice would be to try it first, at a level of carb reduction you think is sustainable, and wait and see. If, after a week, you haven't seen any weight loss, then drop the carbs lower.
A week later, count calories
after than, drop calories...

But only take the next step if you need to. No point teaching your body to lower its basal metabolic rate unless you have to, eh? Otherwise you are effectively teaching it to manage on less in the long run.

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Agreed. Softly softly catch the monkey. Can I just ask Brunneria, doesn't reducing your carbs and upping your fat increase your metabolism...burning fat more rapidly and easily?


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KevinPotts said:

Agreed. Softly softly catch the monkey. Can I just ask Brunneria, doesn't reducing your carbs and upping your fat increase your metabolism...burning fat more rapidly and easily?


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In theory. But not all theories work the same for everyone.
Sadly.

I do think the calorie theory is a load of codswollop. But then, we have had people post on here who find it is the thing that works best for them. So maybe it is only codswollop for some of us. lol.

Plus, of course, reducing carbs and upping fat doesn't necessarily result in weight loss - it may just result in no weight gain...

Hi and welcome to the forum loanne147, I have been following the LCHF diet since Jan this year, I do not count carbs or calories. I eat to my metre and try and test new foods 2hrs after eating. Whether I should count calories and carbs I don't know, but I have lost over 1st and a half in 3 months, what works for one might or might not work for another, look into the forum What have You Eaten Today like Mesas said you can see what meals some of us eat try and test for yourself, you will never get bored you wil soon know what you can buy and eat. I wish you luck.

joanne147 said:

Hi everyone first post ... just wondering does everyone follow LCHF along with calorie counting ... I need to lose weight and am just looking guidance as to best way .. have been diagnosed with Type 2 ... How many grams of Carb is ideal, and what are the ratios for protein and fat or do i not need to worry to much re this and just concentrate on low Carb. Any comment welcome thanks so much Jo

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Joanne - Not sure if you've seen @daisy1 's information post, so I'll tag her here. Welcome aboard.

Not everyone follows LCHF, particularly the 'high fat'

The only thing that worked for me was calorie reduction.
I came down from morbidly obese into a normal BMI, and put my diabetes into remission.

Any excess calories, of any type, and I gained weight.
I still do.
I did it mainly by salads, no fat, limited protein.

Now I eat a balanced diet, limited/low carb compared to the normal, wirth just enough protein and fat to make up the calories.
I exercise regularly, and did when I was aggressively dieting, and had no problems with metabolism, a shake up does it good occasionally.
You need a meter to test though, and that way you can make sure any carbs you do eat don't cause spikes.

Personally, I found trimming back my carbs, and just using full fat products (full fat, not low fat yoghurt for example) worked for me. Doing that seemed to take enough out of my diet without recourse to too much counting of either carbs or calories.

I found that by dropping bread, I was using less fat, as there was no toast to butter, for example.

I used MyFitnessPal to record my food intake, so by default, that gave me running totals of carbs and cals, but they weren't my reference points.

I'd urge you not to over complicate things to start with. If a simple approach doesn't work, then you can think about adding in more "work". I was never concerned about my weight, as I didn't carry that much, but doing as I did, I trimmed up quickly. My focus, and my only goal, at all times was to achieve improved blood glucose results.

I would rather have ended up as an upholstered T2 with decent blood scores, than a skinny T2 who got thin, but still have problematic bloods. As it was, I got very lucky and got great bloods and skinny.

Good luck with it all.

Hi. There are no real targets, but I would say to aim for a max daily carb total of 150gm and many go for a lot less than 100gm/day. The ratio of protein and fat is up to you depending on food taste and your meter. Personally I would forget calories, as the amount of calorie energy released on burning tests is completely different from the way the body uses carbs versus fats/proteins. I believe (puts on tin-hat!) the reason calorie reduction diets work, such as ND, is that they include carb reduction as well as fat/protein. If you just did a carb reduction I suspect many would achieve a similar result in weight loss and blood sugar reduction.

Daibell said:

Hi. There are no real targets, but I would say to aim for a max daily carb total of 150gm and many go for a lot less than 100gm/day. The ratio of protein and fat is up to you depending on food taste and your meter. Personally I would forget calories, as the amount of calorie energy released on burning tests is completely different from the way the body uses carbs versus fats/proteins. I believe (puts on tin-hat!) the reason calorie reduction diets work, such as ND, is that they include carb reduction as well as fat/protein. If you just did a carb reduction I suspect many would achieve a similar result in weight loss and blood sugar reduction.

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I can categorically say that while you may suspect it would work for you, there isn't any chance at all it works for me.
I could eat 100% fat, and if I go over my calorie limit, I'll put on weight.

SunnyExpat said:

I can categorically say that while you may suspect it would work for you, there isn't any chance at all it works for me.
I could eat 100% fat, and if I go over my calorie limit, I'll put on weight.

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Agree - same!

I am doing Slimming World and finding it helpful - am steadily losing weight and my BGs are good.

@joanne147

Hello Joanne and welcome to the forum You have already had loads of replies containing some very useful advice. To add to this, here is the information we give to new members and I hope you will find it helpful. Ask as many questions as you want and someone will reply.


BASIC INFORMATION FOR NEWLY DIAGNOSED DIABETICS

Diabetes is the general term to describe people who have blood that is sweeter than normal. A number of different types of diabetes exist.

A diagnosis of diabetes tends to be a big shock for most of us. It’s far from the end of the world though and on this forum you’ll find over 150,000 people who are demonstrating this.

On the forum we have found that with the number of new people being diagnosed with diabetes each day, sometimes the NHS is not being able to give all the advice it would perhaps like to deliver - particularly with regards to people with type 2 diabetes.

The role of carbohydrate

Carbohydrates are a factor in diabetes because they ultimately break down into sugar (glucose) within our blood. We then need enough insulin to either convert the blood sugar into energy for our body, or to store the blood sugar as body fat.

If the amount of carbohydrate we take in is more than our body’s own (or injected) insulin can cope with, then our blood sugar will rise.

The bad news

Research indicates that raised blood sugar levels over a period of years can lead to organ damage, commonly referred to as diabetic complications.

The good news

People on the forum here have shown that there is plenty of opportunity to keep blood sugar levels from going too high. It’s a daily task but it’s within our reach and it’s well worth the effort.

Controlling your carbs

The info below is primarily aimed at people with type 2 diabetes, however, it may also be of benefit for other types of diabetes as well.
There are two approaches to controlling your carbs:

• Reduce your carbohydrate intake
• Choose ‘better’ carbohydrates

Reduce your carbohydrates

A large number of people on this forum have chosen to reduce the amount of carbohydrates they eat as they have found this to be an effective way of improving (lowering) their blood sugar levels.

The carbohydrates which tend to have the most pronounced effect on blood sugar levels tend to be starchy carbohydrates such as rice, pasta, bread, potatoes and similar root vegetables, flour based products (pastry, cakes, biscuits, battered food etc) and certain fruits.

Choosing better carbohydrates

Another option is to replace ‘white carbohydrates’ (such as white bread, white rice, white flour etc) with whole grain varieties. The idea behind having whole grain varieties is that the carbohydrates get broken down slower than the white varieties –and these are said to have a lower glycaemic index.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/food/diabetes-and-whole-grains.html

The low glycaemic index diet is often favoured by healthcare professionals but some people with diabetes find that low GI does not help their blood sugar enough and may wish to cut out these foods altogether.

Read more on carbohydrates and diabetes

LOW CARB PROGRAM:
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/low carb program


Eating what works for you

Different people respond differently to different types of food. What works for one person may not work so well for another. The best way to see which foods are working for you is to test your blood sugar with a glucose meter.

To be able to see what effect a particular type of food or meal has on your blood sugar is to do a test before the meal and then test after the meal. A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal.

The blood sugar ranges recommended by NICE are as follows:

Blood glucose ranges for type 2 diabetes

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 8.5 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (adults)

• Before meals: 4 to 7 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 9 mmol/l

Blood glucose ranges for type 1 diabetes (children)

• Before meals: 4 to 8 mmol/l
• 2 hours after meals: under 10 mmol/l

However, those that are able to, may wish to keep blood sugar levels below the NICE after meal targets.

Access to blood glucose test strips

The NICE guidelines suggest that people newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes should be offered:

• structured education to every person and/or their carer at and around the time of diagnosis, with annual reinforcement and review
• self-monitoring of plasma glucose to a person newly diagnosed with type 2 diabetes only as an integral part of his or her self-management education

Therefore both structured education and self-monitoring of blood glucose should be offered to people with type 2 diabetes. Read more on getting access to bloodglucose testing supplies.

You may also be interested to read questions to ask at a diabetic clinic

Note: This post has been edited from Sue/Ken's post to include up to date information.

Thanks Brunneria.... Interesting.


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SunnyExpat said:

I can categorically say that while you may suspect it would work for you, there isn't any chance at all it works for me.
I could eat 100% fat, and if I go over my calorie limit, I'll put on weight.

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Hi I was being a bit extreme in my post as I realise having an infinite amount of fat will make you gain weight. I guess my key point which you may still disagree with is that carb and fat calories are not the same thing as the body has to work harder to use fat energy than carb energy and hence simple 'calorie' reduction without regard to the carb/fat mix within the calorie limit is too simplistic. But, whatever works for you and others is fine by me.

Daibell, you are referencing the "all calories are the same" model. I've read about this at length and although strictly speaking as a measurement of energy, all calories are the same, but that misses the "qualitative" aspect of the food groups generating the calories. Some calories are handled differently, for instance by our hormones etc and are processed more efficiently particularly so when are bodies are adapted on a ketogenic diet such as LCHF. Or at least that's my take of the reading I've done.


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Fat calories are my optimum fuel source. I metabolize them beautifully. Now give me some carbs and I'm sleepy ache headache and the list goes on. I thru e on fat and it takes a lot to make me gain weight. A piece of bread a day and I'll gain 10# s in a week.
Keto is the name if my game

Whenever I moderate proteins (down to 1g protein/kg body weight) I lose weight. Otherwise I could eat a lot of cheese, which does not contain carbs, and nuts, but eating a 350 g cheddar pack in one go does certainly not go unnoticed.

I was never overweight but I lost weight I didn't need to as soon as I stopped all the sugar stuff lowered potatoes and had hardly any bread...I never did eat pasta and rice and I can't eat a lot of saturated fats as in meat, butter and cream etc so my diet is more good oils and moderate carbs but I do struggle to put on some weight

Daibell said:

Hi I was being a bit extreme in my post as I realise having an infinite amount of fat will make you gain weight. I guess my key point which you may still disagree with is that carb and fat calories are not the same thing as the body has to work harder to use fat energy than carb energy and hence simple 'calorie' reduction without regard to the carb/fat mix within the calorie limit is too simplistic. But, whatever works for you and others is fine by me.

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The 'working harder' was debunked by someone, it may have been Jason Fung, I'll try to find it again.