liver dump good or bad?

[mekalu2k4]

Hi folks,

I have noticed that HIIT exercises are causing liver dump, my fasting BS levels are around 100 - 110 range. If I do not exercise for 3 or 4 days then fasting BS is around 85 - 95 range. Now my questions:

1. Is liver dump good? or bad?

2. Should I eat carbs in the night to prevent liver dump?

3. is it true that liver dump is a process of liver pushing the toxins out of it?

4. is it true that liver dump improves insulin sensitivity?

Please help me on the above. Thanks in advance for your responses.

 

[Lazybones]

Interesting questions, but I'm not sure that I can answer them all without spending some time researching for all the answers to you multiple question.
Normally a Liver dump is associated with raising the B/G levels at the Dawn period in the morning so as to pre-load the bodies bloodstream with glucose at the initial start to the day. This is something that we have inherited from pre-historic times and is inbuilt into all us humans.
During the rest of the day the liver will help store excess glucose from the bloodstream, or in the case of heavy exercise, such as marathon running, discharging it's store back into the bloodstream so as to help stabilise and maintain a constant source of glucose to the bodies muscles as the exercise takes place.
Regular exercise helps reduce B/G levels as we all know, by toning up the muscles, allowing them to become more responsive to the intake of glucose, which might go someway in explaining the answer to your question on 'insulin resistance'
Ensuring that you go to bed at night with sufficient intake of energy from a late evening snack will certainly help in maintaining a steady B/G level throughout the night time and should eliminate any need to consume more foods during the night time.
We diabetics tend to stay clear of 'carbs' for their obvious glucose raising properties, but we do still need a certain amount of them for maintain general health though this can be reduce by careful use of a LCHF diet.
Hope this goes some way to supplying some answers.

 

[4ratbags]

When you get a liver dump there is usually a sharp rise in BS. When you are doing HIIT exercises it may be contributing to the small rise that you mention but it really isnt that significant a rise to call it a liver dump. I used to have a lot of trouble with my fasting BS being well over 150 but since being on LCHF for 3 months it stays around 95-100. It is definately sonething to keep an eye on to make sure it isnt getting higher. Also are your evening meals the same whether you are exercising or not as what you are eating the night before may impact your morning reading.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

1. It is essential since if you ran out of sugar during period when not eating you would die.

2. This could apply at any time during the day or night. I have heard of people doing this but fortunately for me the liver dump is not a problem.

3. Never heard of that one before and to be honest it sounds a bit witch doctory.

4.I tend to go with Malcolm Kendrick on this one. If you use up the sugar in your stores then there is room to take some more on. If you don't use any sugar then you can't take more on. This looks like the insulin isn't working. If you are up for a liver dump the possibility is that you are running low on sugar and can therefore use some. Other theories are available.

 

[mekalu2k4]

This liver dump thing is kinda complex, not able to understand. After joining this forum I got excited with different diet regimes, particularly with ND. Started ND, but failed to sustain; however the general knowledge from this forum made me to put myself on low carb [and kinda low portion too] diet. But... I did not cut my rigorous exercises and this combination heavy workouts with low diet - resulted in this liver dump [I assume, think]. After my recent blood tests I decided to cut down on exercises, but continue with LC diet.

One thing about HF diet - I indeed tried HF diet for sometime like 6 weeks or so, but recent blood reports are very clear - my cholesterol and triglycerides are very low. Earlier I was very opinionated on HF diet. I am now enjoying my Feta cheese.

Another aspect I can share from my experience: HIIT over 3 to 4 months significantly improves lactose tolerance besides other benefits. I got rid of my breathing problems [I suffered with bronchitis for years], dust allergies etc.

Ensuring that you go to bed at night with sufficient intake of energy from a late evening snack will certainly help in maintaining a steady B/G level throughout the night time and should eliminate any need to consume more foods during the night time.

Very good one! will follow. I am still experimenting. Another problem is - I do my workouts in the evening. I will see what adjustments I need to make.

When you are doing HIIT exercises it may be contributing to the small rise that you mention but it really isnt that significant a rise to call it a liver dump.

Well, I hope so.... when I look at my family medical history and siblings, it is like T2D is sitting right next to me saying 'Hello Mr. I am getting into your body'. I am not sounding negative, but not sure if I can really delay the onset, if I can - I cannot say for how long. GP at my job also told me that my readings are fine, nothing to worry. But apparently last year fasting BS reading is 89 or so.

Also are your evening meals the same whether you are exercising or not as what you are eating the night before may impact your morning reading.

As I explained above, I was on very low carb and low portion diet; but continued with rigorous exercises. You are right in pointing to this.

It is essential since if you ran out of sugar during period when not eating you would die.

- haha haha! good one, agreed.

Never heard of that one before and to be honest it sounds a bit witch doctory.

Yes, I know this is bit out of my awareness limits. No doc or GP will give enough time to discuss like this. I usually stay away from pills - in any form.

If you are up for a liver dump the possibility is that you are running low on sugar and can therefore use some. Other theories are available.

- I did not understand this - 'and can therefore use some' do you mean 'and can therefore consume some'?

After posting this I was reading about liver dump. There a few symptoms listed. Frankly I do not have those symptoms - like headache etc. However, I do sweat a bit up to 2 hours. Definitely body temperature goes up, cannot get sleep. Even if I go to sleep, I will get up after 4 hours or so with a lot of thirstiness. I raid my fridge, down whatever I can get [even a raw tomoto] and then continue my sleep.

Thanks for replies, we continue

 

[4ratbags]

I see by your profile that you are a non diabetic but it runs in your family so Id just like to say I admire you for being pro-active with your health and for taking the steps to ensure (hopefully) that you dont get diabetes. Please keep us posted in regard to your BS.

 

[Squire Fulwood]

- I did not understand this - 'and can therefore use some' do you mean 'and can therefore consume some'?

After posting this I was reading about liver dump. There a few symptoms listed. Frankly I do not have those symptoms - like headache etc. However, I do sweat a bit up to 2 hours. Definitely body temperature goes up, cannot get sleep. Even if I go to sleep, I will get up after 4 hours or so with a lot of thirstiness. I raid my fridge, down whatever I can get [even a raw tomoto] and then continue my sleep.Thanks for replies, we continue

First let me explain what I meant by "and can therefore use some". If you haven't eaten for a while and your blood sugar is low then the body needs to get sugar from somewhere. It is in need or it can "use some". There is a store in the liver for just this purpose and the body will use this store until such time as you eat and provide sugar from external sources.

I think you may be confusing a hypo with liver dump. When you are very low on blood sugar you may experience the symptoms listed above. Different people get different symptoms but there is often a headache involved.

 

[Indy51]

It's neither good nor bad - it's a normal physiological response.

 

[AndBreathe]

Liver dumps happen in everyone; whether diabetic or not, if they are in energy deficit or bang on consumption, but upping the energy usage. I can actually tell when it's happening these days, and a while ago, I did some personal research around it, to track its profile. Call me a geek if you dare. But, the upshot is, we diabetics (and others interested in their metabolic functionality I'm guessing) find out about it because we test. "Normal" people who don't test probably would call the signs I get for liver dump either hunger or energy lag.

I never, ever have evening snacks, and I would never eat during the night, unless I was up to travel or something really very extraordinary.

I see the liver dumps I experience to be healthy and in my mind I rationalise it by thinking it must be healthy to "refresh" the liver contents from time to time.

My liver dumps aren't uncomfortable or painful, just a bit odd, but now I understand what's going on, I tend to just metaphorically shrug my shoulders and get on with whatever I'm doing.

 

[phoenix]

In normal circumstances , the brain and the rest of the central nervous system needs a constant supply of glucose amounting to some 35 millimoles per hour. If you are doing maximal exercise then the muscles may take up several hundreds of millimoles per hour.
As mentioned glucose rises, even in non diabetics in preparation for needs on waking; it doesn't though rise to the levels which define diabetes or 'pre diabetes'.
No-one is constantly eating to keep their blood glucose at the right level. The glucose comes from stored glucose. Part of insulin's role is to convert glucose from food into glycogen to store in the muscles and liver.
If more is needed, then It can also be manufactured in the liver from proteins, a portion of the triglycerides ( fats as stored in the body) and possibly fatty acids ( ongoing debate on this one)
When the body requires glucose the liver will use whatever it can to get it and will even break down muscle and fat to get it.

Insulin is also part of the regulation process working in conjunction with glucagon
It's a finely tuned process to keep blood glucose at around 5mmol/l

Blood glucose falls, insulin levels fall, glucagon levels rise, liver releases glucose
Blood glucose rises, insulin levels rise, glucagon falls ,liver stops releasing glucose see diagram http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/diabetes/diabetes1.htm
It's an on going process as glucose is constantly changing.

In a person with insulin resistance, higher levels of insulin are required to get the liver to stop releasing glucose. This means they may not stop releasing glucose as quickly as they should. A person with T2 may produce 3x as much glucose from the liver as a non diabetic. Metformin is such a useful drug because it acts in part on the liver to stop the excess glucose from this source.
In untreated T1 the message doesn't even get sent .With injected basal insulin it's hard to get the right amount at the right time.(that's one place where pumps can help)



.

 

[mekalu2k4]

In normal circumstances , the brain and the rest of the central nervous system needs a constant supply of glucose amounting to some 35 millimoles per hour. If you are doing maximal exercise then the muscles may take up several hundreds of millimoles per hour.
........
Insulin is also part of the regulation process working in conjunction with glucagon; It's a finely tuned process to keep blood glucose at around 5mmol/l

Blood glucose falls, insulin levels fall, glucagon levels rise, liver releases glucose.
Blood glucose rises, insulin levels rise, glucagon falls ,liver stops releasing glucose see diagram http://health.howstuffworks.com/diseases-conditions/diabetes/diabetes1.htm
It's an on going process as glucose is constantly changing.

In a person with insulin resistance, higher levels of insulin are required to get the liver to stop releasing glucose. This means they may not stop releasing glucose as quickly as they should. A person with T2 may produce 3x as much glucose from the liver as a non diabetic.
.

Nice post with references. Thanks Phoenix!

 

[mekalu2k4]

It's neither good nor bad - it's a normal physiological response.

Liver dumps happen in everyone; whether diabetic or not.

Thanks to all. This thread, in particular all the responses are very helpful. Usually we see personal opinions [different from personal experiences] and somehow, responses for this thread are based on scientific and well known resources. I am very glad to see this thread clearing up one of my doubts with solid background information. Without this I would have ended up reading tons of web pages.