Type 2 Low Carb High fat. . . But how high fat?

AFAIK the amount of fats and oils you need depends on things like whether you want to maintain. lose or gain weight, your height, weight, sex, age, and how active you are. So it will tend to depend on the individual, and you certainly don't have to sit and stuff fat down your throat.

I eat enough fat in a meal to satisfy me, and I can go longer between meals or sometimes skip them /do a bit a a fast without being hungry, and generally need to eat less, as fatty foods are more calorific and filling. My fatty foods include some fattier cuts of meats, chicken preferably with skin on, oily fish - salmon mackerel, trout, tuna; eggs, dairy except milk (so real butter, full fat cheeses, cream, and Greek yoghurt) , seeds and nuts, nut oils, butters and flour, coconut oil and butter, olives and olive oil, avocados, small amounts of high percentage cocoa dark chocolate. So I'm eating my fats and oils in a wide variety of normal foods and don't actually consider that I'm putting any extra fat/oil on my food.

My cholesterol and triglyceride levels have come down together with my weight and glucose levels, which are currently stable. Some people may see a rise in their cholesterol levels before they actually start to come down, and it's actually the individual HDL, LDL, and triglyceride breakdowns that you need to look at rather than any overall figure.

Robbity

There is a plethora of threads on this subject already, so I'm kind at a loss as to why we need yet another one?

Anyhoo, I personally don't add lots of fat - the high fat in my diet is just the proportion of fat to the other macronutrients once you start eating full fat and stop eating all the low fat products out there. I'm not afraid of fat and don't give two hoots about whether my cholesterol is high or not - I have no faith whatsoever in the heart/diet hypothesis nor do I think high cholesterol is something we should be worried about. Shame they ever worked out how to measure it - look at where it's got us

As I've posted on some of those other threads, there are genetic reasons why some people metabolise saturated fat better than others, hence why some thrive on dairy fat and others don't. If your cholesterol goes up and it spooks you, then drop the dairy fat for more monounsaturated fats.

If other people don't have digestive or weight issues and they want to eat lots of fat in the form of bulletproof coffee, fat bombs, etc., more power to them. It's not to my personal taste, so I don't do it. It's all about personal choice and priorities.

Can't we ever stop flogging this dead horse

I don't add fat to my diet. I don't need to since I never joined the low fat fad in the first place. I always thought it was a sort of hysteria and didn't want to join in. My DN said I should buy skimmed milk and I said "No". I don't think anyone had ever answered back before by the way she sat back in her chair suddenly.

In my personal view I agree with Dr. Malhotra. If it says low fat on the package put it back on the supermarket shelf.

In the meantime enjoy the butter and eggs etc.

Some people thrive on higher fat and others don't, personally I keep my fats high (butter with everything please!) to keep me in deep ketosis which is when I feel the best. General rule is: carbs is a limit, protein is a goal and then fat until satisfied

I think I am taking a conservative view on Fats, but am not sure, for example circa 5 different types of nuts with 35 grams of porridge, lunch is cooked in olive oil and usually accompanied with a whole avocado and perhaps an oily fish. Unless dinner has an oily fish I don't actively look to add fats. I do break the code and have low fat yoghurt with 4 or 5 grams of carbs per 100 through choice, with berries, nuts and occasionally 2 level scoops of Oppo.

I would suggest judging based on HbA1C results, I am anxiously waiting for mine next month.

Indy51 said:

There is a plethora of threads on this subject already, so I'm kind at a loss as to why we need yet another one?

Anyhoo, I personally don't add lots of fat - the high fat in my diet is just the proportion of fat to the other macronutrients once you start eating full fat and stop eating all the low fat products out there. I'm not afraid of fat and don't give two hoots about whether my cholesterol is high or not - I have no faith whatsoever in the heart/diet hypothesis nor do I think high cholesterol is something we should be worried about. Shame they ever worked out how to measure it - look at where it's got us

As I've posted on some of those other threads, there are genetic reasons why some people metabolise saturated fat better than others, hence why some thrive on dairy fat and others don't. If your cholesterol goes up and it spooks you, then drop the dairy fat for more monounsaturated fats.

If other people don't have digestive or weight issues and they want to eat lots of fat in the form of bulletproof coffee, fat bombs, etc., more power to them. It's not to my personal taste, so I don't do it. It's all about personal choice and priorities.

Can't we ever stop flogging this dead horse

Click to expand...

You're right Indy, but there are always new people joining, and I think you summarized the whole issue very well and succinctly - thank you!

If you're really that interested in history - I'd say the history of mankind pretty much proves that high fat is not a problem



This is such a complex subject and if you're that interested, a good starting point would probably be Nina Teicholz's book "The Big Fat Surprise" - she covers the science in detail. There is also Uffe Ravnskov's freely downloadable online book "The Cholesterol Myths":
http://www.ravnskov.nu/cholesterol/

Just adding, if you haven't watched the Prof Tim Noakes deposition videos, they a good rebuttal of the old diet/heart hypothesis and review of the science: http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/prof-tim-noakes.102885/

Like you I was a sceptic, so I started my own thread 'what is the HF in LCHF?'. At the end I was a firm believer that HF is a useful and easy to use tool that helps ketosis to happen. It provides the calories that Low Carbing cuts out, and it is actually very similar to what I was bought up on and my Gparents lived to old age on, namely honest home cooked meals with minimum additives. My cholesterol went up slighly when I started. but when I learnt how to go ketogenic then they dropped. They are still not quite where I want them, but doc is pleased, and no statins for me.

Like you I was a sceptic, so I started my own thread 'what is the HF in LCHF?'. At the end I was a firm believer that HF is a useful and easy to use tool that helps ketosis to happen. It provides the calories that Low Carbing cuts out, and it is actually very similar to what I was bought up on and my Gparents lived to old age on, namely honest home cooked meals with minimum additives. My cholesterol went up slighly when I started. but when I learnt how to go ketogenic then they dropped. They are still not quite where I want them, but doc is pleased, and no statins for me.

As said above, there are so many variables on the fat thing. I eat enough low enough carbs (including huge portions of low carb veg and greenery) that my blood glucose is in range. Then I eat enough protein to hit a conservative interpretation of the guidelines. After that, it is fat - coconut, olive oil, butter, fat on meat, to the point that I can forget about food for a few hours and get on with life.

Weight-loss would be a nice bonus, but is a much lower priority than good blood glucose control. And I won't put up with that hollow deprived cold hunger that I got from low calorie diets. So I just aim for a comfortable zone of 'satisfied', without over indulging.