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<blockquote data-quote="Beating-My-Betes" data-source="post: 2555907" data-attributes="member: 532959"><p>I'm curious: Did you ever see the month-long vegan/keto (carnivore, perhaps?) swap, hosted on Drew Morgans channel, and subsequently analysed by Dave Feldman?</p><p></p><p>Edited: To add and to clarify.</p><p></p><p>Firstly, I realise that perhaps there're very few people who'd be motivated to sit through the (from memory) over 3-hour final analysis, so it might seem strange why I particularly quoted that part of MBaker's answer.</p><p></p><p>The cliff-notes again from memory, are that a vegan went carnivore for 30-days (at least, meat-based keto) and his opposite swapped his meat-based diet for 30 days of whole food vegan. The results seemed to demonstrate that going carnivore increased inflammation for the vegan, and the carni's inflammation decreased going vegan.</p><p></p><p>Is this definitive? Of course not. It was an N=2, over a short, and uncontrolled duration. However, my intention is not to offer definitive proof, but to urge caution that perhaps we're not quite at the stage of putting anything to bed.</p><p></p><p>At a personal level, perhaps that's enough to be satisfied. However, that dynamic changes when the notion that definitive proof exists is spread on forums such as this. Not every member here will be able to regularly test for inflammation. That goes even moreso as concerns all the non-members who read here.</p><p></p><p>The other side of this, and what this particular experiment also shows, is that it's not clear-cut definitive truth to say that carbs cause inflammation either. Also. since my first posting, Cedar has amended his test results, adding another data point for the whole food, plant-based diet (a la MD, Furhman, Esselstyn etc.) is not definitively implicated in the causing of inflammation.</p><p></p><p>For clarity, my own position given the available data is that meat doesn't necessarily cause inflammation either. Of course "Meat" is a broad topic, but I've seen enough examples to believe that it doesn't do so in all people. Does that apply to everyone? I very much doubt it. And I believe that it should stop being taken as a given until much more, and better long-term data is available.</p><p></p><p>An edit to my edit: Now that I am rewatching the analysis of the diet swap I need to correct something I misremembered. The vegan guy's inflammation did indeed reduce on the meat-based diet. Not that his marker was very high on his 10-year vegan diet, though. But it's an important detail. </p><p></p><p>Also they ran the trial for 28 days, rather than 30. </p><p></p><p>It also seems like there are a lot of issues with confounding going on, and evidently both of the participants should've been coached as to how to best apply their respective new diets.</p><p></p><p>Still, as far as it goes, it's a fascinating watch. Not sure I'll complete the video till tomorrow.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Beating-My-Betes, post: 2555907, member: 532959"] I'm curious: Did you ever see the month-long vegan/keto (carnivore, perhaps?) swap, hosted on Drew Morgans channel, and subsequently analysed by Dave Feldman? Edited: To add and to clarify. Firstly, I realise that perhaps there're very few people who'd be motivated to sit through the (from memory) over 3-hour final analysis, so it might seem strange why I particularly quoted that part of MBaker's answer. The cliff-notes again from memory, are that a vegan went carnivore for 30-days (at least, meat-based keto) and his opposite swapped his meat-based diet for 30 days of whole food vegan. The results seemed to demonstrate that going carnivore increased inflammation for the vegan, and the carni's inflammation decreased going vegan. Is this definitive? Of course not. It was an N=2, over a short, and uncontrolled duration. However, my intention is not to offer definitive proof, but to urge caution that perhaps we're not quite at the stage of putting anything to bed. At a personal level, perhaps that's enough to be satisfied. However, that dynamic changes when the notion that definitive proof exists is spread on forums such as this. Not every member here will be able to regularly test for inflammation. That goes even moreso as concerns all the non-members who read here. The other side of this, and what this particular experiment also shows, is that it's not clear-cut definitive truth to say that carbs cause inflammation either. Also. since my first posting, Cedar has amended his test results, adding another data point for the whole food, plant-based diet (a la MD, Furhman, Esselstyn etc.) is not definitively implicated in the causing of inflammation. For clarity, my own position given the available data is that meat doesn't necessarily cause inflammation either. Of course "Meat" is a broad topic, but I've seen enough examples to believe that it doesn't do so in all people. Does that apply to everyone? I very much doubt it. And I believe that it should stop being taken as a given until much more, and better long-term data is available. An edit to my edit: Now that I am rewatching the analysis of the diet swap I need to correct something I misremembered. The vegan guy's inflammation did indeed reduce on the meat-based diet. Not that his marker was very high on his 10-year vegan diet, though. But it's an important detail. Also they ran the trial for 28 days, rather than 30. It also seems like there are a lot of issues with confounding going on, and evidently both of the participants should've been coached as to how to best apply their respective new diets. Still, as far as it goes, it's a fascinating watch. Not sure I'll complete the video till tomorrow. [/QUOTE]
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