Metformin is it working?

[Lukeyboy]

HI everybody,

I'm hoping some of the experienced posters can help me.

I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2 on the 2nd of October. I had all the symptoms, balanitis, dry mouth, fatigue urinating in middle of night etc.

After an 18 hour fast my glucose levels were 17+ so my doctor prescribed me with Metformin tablets, 500mg, 1 tablet taken twice daily. I also had a HBA1C test taken on the same day as my diagnoses and the result for that came back as 70. On the initial blood test my doctor said everything else was perfect such as kidneys, filtration, cell counts etc he said I'm very healthy otherwise.

I visited the doctor again on the 16th October as I found my eyes were hurting really badly, as if I was looking into the sun constantly and my balanitis had returned - (I'd stopped applying the cream once it had cleared up). The doctor told me that my BG was likely to still be very high as I wasn't taking a higher enough dosage of metformin yet, saying a therapeutic dose would be 2 tablets twice daily but he wanted to see if I had and adverse effects before doing this so told me to increase them as and when I was ready.

I started taking 2 tablets twice daily as of the 19th October and was given a True result glucose blood meter which I started using in the last few days alongside keeping a note of my food intake.

My readings seem to be getting higher and higher and I believe my diet is pretty good - before my diabetes diagnosis my cholesterol was at 3.8 and was regularly attending the gym, I have a BMI of 24. I'm 30 years old, 186cm (6ft1) tall and weigh 86kg. I work as an electrician and my job involves a lot of walking as I work at 1 of London's largest hospitals . A day of little walking would still see me walk over 1 mile no problem whatsoever.

For the last week or so I have been feeling flu/cold like symptoms, really chesty cough and runny nose and congested etc so I wonder if this is affecting my readings or whether the metformin hasn't kicked in yet or it just isn't effective for me and I need further medicating?

I have a cramp like feeling in my right leg which is worrying me.

I don't smoke, I drink tea with no sugar (Haven't had sugar with tea for 5+ years) and for the last year have avoided bread and pasta to help get leaner in the gym so I'm fairly aware of carbs and sugars I think?

Typically during the week I eat scrambled eggs every morning with no bread just a cup of tea or sometimes 2. For lunch normally 2 wholemeal bread wraps with tuna mayo and salad which I make myself or sometimes cooked chicken breast wrapped in bacon stuffed with Philadelphia. Salad I have would include spinach, tomato, cucumber.


Friday 23/10/2015

7.00: 17.1 After 12 hour fast

7.30: 5 small eggs scrambled with semi skimmed milk, cup of Lemsip +2 tablets


11.30: 12.7

11.30: 1 tin of tuna in oil + lemsip


17.30: 1 tin of tuna in oil

18.30: 6 Pork medallions + roasted pepper, aubergine and leek in olive oil + 2 tablets


Saturday 24/10/15

5.30: Lemsip cold and flu

6.30: 3 Bacon, 2 eggs, beans, 1 slice of wholemeal Rye bread buttered (60g) + 2 tablets

13.00: 4 Hot & Spicy chicken thighs, 8 small red peppers stuffed with feta + small piece of wendslydale cheese

13.30: 14.4

15.30: 1 Slice of Rye Bread(60g) with peanut butter + handful of roasted almonds

17.30: 17.7

18.00: Large minty marinated lamb steak, 2 sausages grilled on George foreman + 1 tomato + small squeeze of mayonnaise + 2 tablets

18.15: 16.7

20.15: 16.1


Sunday 25/10/15

Overnight fast @8.00 : 15.1

9.00: Breakfast – 2 Sausages 3 bacon (cooked on George foreman with a little coconut oil), 2 fried eggs (fried in a little coconut oil), half tin of baked beans, 1 slice of Rye bread buttered (60g). lemsip + 2 tablets.

11.30: Half pint of semi-skimmed milk

11.40: 21.1



Slightly concerned that I'm eating little sugars and carbs and even after 12 hour fasts I'm still very high.

Thanks for reading this far.


Luke

 

[carty]

I don't know how much sugar is in Lemsip but it may have an effect Also the beans and rye bread would raise my bloods quite a lot
CAROL

 

[Robbity]

I agree with Carol about foods and checking what the Lemsip contains. Also be aware that milk contains sugars in the form of lactose, and this is higher in lower fat (i.e. your semi skimmed) milk. Look for either lactose free or nut milks, or use cream in suitable drinks, and use butter, cream, or oils in your cooking. If you're eating low carbs you probably should be adding some extra fats to your diet anyway for energy as this replaces some of the fuel you're no longer getting from higher carbs.

Illness can affect your glucose levels too, though it could be that you are suffering from low carb flu - sugar withdrawal symptoms as your body gets used to a low carb diet. This may take up to 2-3 weeks to sort itself out.

It would help us more re glucose if you could check your levels immediately before eating and two hours after - these figures will be the most useful in indicating how you're responding to different foods.

You need to think about getting your daytime levels down first as fasting ones tend to be the ones that take longest to improve. (Also take a look at the "dawn phenomenon" and liver dumps.) Metformin is not going to fix things on its own, and adjusting your diet appropriately, which you appear to be doing anyway, is going to be what improves your glucose levels the most. But it may take time, so please be patient.

Robbity

 

[4ratbags]

Beans, marinade, bread and wraps and the semi skimmed milk all jump out at me. Also consuming too much protein can raise BS levels for me.

 

[Lukeyboy]

Beans, marinade, bread and wraps and the semi skimmed milk all jump out at me. Also consuming too much protein can raise BS levels for me.

I agree they contain some sugars/carbs but really apart from water and cabbage what am I expected to eat for the rest of my life?

If I can't eat carbs then I need to eat proteins and fats right? If I eat too much protein what am I supposed to eat olive oil for fats?

It just seems to be wherever you look there is so much contradiction. You're told to avoid white breads and eat wholegrains - I've barely eaten bread for the last year tbh and I've read on here and elsewhere that Ryebread is a better choice but now I'm told otherwise.

I've met people who've told me they have been diabetic before and I don't ever recall them being on such strict diets and all were slim and active and young.

I'm going away in 2 weeks time and I cannot see me be able to eat anything without worry at all with what I've been told from various sources so far.

Am I right in thinking that once my levels are controlled a little more with the medication and diet then I can vary my diet a little bit? Or will I need to worry about what's in the air I breathe until I die?

 

[Lukeyboy]

Thanks for your replies guys, much appreciated!!

I will also look up "dawn phenomenon" and liver dumps

I'll start with pre and 2 hour post tests from tomorrow.

 

[Sirmione]

Different foods have different effects on different people. Even different types of bread can have widely different effected. Really best to avoid bread and all starchy carbohydrates until you can work out by testing how what effect they have on you. The sugar in milk Lactose has to be broken down into simpler sugars before it can be digested , not every adult can digest Lactose so for some lucky people it has no effect on blood glucose concentration, I think you may not be one but only testing blood glucose level after drinking some will tell.
The difference in the amount of sugar (Lactose) between semi-skimmed and full fat milk is very small the only reason for it is if the fat content is reduced the proportion of sugar in what is left must increase.

 

[Robbity]

I agree they contain some sugars/carbs but really apart from water and cabbage what am I expected to eat for the rest of my life?

If I can't eat carbs then I need to eat proteins and fats right? If I eat too much protein what am I supposed to eat olive oil for fats?
....
Am I right in thinking that once my levels are controlled a little more with the medication and diet then I can vary my diet a little bit? Or will I need to worry about what's in the air I breathe until I die?

If you choose to believe you can only live on water and cabbage then you have absolutely no idea (or are just being deliberately obtuse?? ) about what you can eat on an a low carb high(er) fat diet. People have suggested a few high carbohydrate foods that they know from experience are best to avoid, but these were definitely not the complete list of what you ate. No-one here has suggested you should eat a NO carbs diet, and very few people I know of actually go so far as eating one. So why are you choosing to believe otherwise?

You'll have to be prepared to take the help and advice you're asking for without throwing a hissy fit, or you may find that it's no longer forthcoming. Every one of us has had to struggle to begin with, so I understand it's not easy, but things do eventually get better ,and you'll end up with a wide choice of healthy and tasty low carb foods that helps control your glucose levels.

Robbity

 

[4ratbags]

@Lukeyboy there is plenty to eat on a LCHF diet. My levels were the same as yours on diagnosis and with some initial help with medication and completely changing my diet I now have my diabetes in remission but it is a lifelong journey. It is really hard to begin with as you are trying to figure out what your body can tolerate and what it cant. A basic day for me would be.
B: coffee with cream, 2 eggs with cream, scrambled.
S: peanuts or cheese
L: coffee with cream and a piece of low carb baking
D: chicken breast stuffed with cream cheese and cheese, wrapped in bacon, 3 cups broccoli and cauliflower with a creamy sauce.
If you can get your levels under control you can then start to add more back into your diet to see what affect it has on your BS. It is very confusing at first but with time you will figure out what suits you and your lifestyle and only you can do that. When you ask a question on the forum members reply based on their own experiences so try not to be offended as that is no ones intention.

 

[Lukeyboy]

@Lukeyboy there is plenty to eat on a LCHF diet. My levels were the same as yours on diagnosis and with some initial help with medication and completely changing my diet I now have my diabetes in remission but it is a lifelong journey. It is really hard to begin with as you are trying to figure out what your body can tolerate and what it cant. A basic day for me would be.
B: coffee with cream, 2 eggs with cream, scrambled.
S: peanuts or cheese
L: coffee with cream and a piece of low carb baking
D: chicken breast stuffed with cream cheese and cheese, wrapped in bacon, 3 cups broccoli and cauliflower with a creamy sauce.
If you can get your levels under control you can then start to add more back into your diet to see what affect it has on your BS. It is very confusing at first but with time you will figure out what suits you and your lifestyle and only you can do that. When you ask a question on the forum members reply based on their own experiences so try not to be offended as that is no ones intention.

This sounds like a diet I could really get into!!!!!


When you say cream do you mean as in single cream/double cream please advise as I'm a little unsure.

Currently semi skimmed milk with my eggs and my tea today my readings got lower throughout the day and for the first time I@ve gone into single figures.


Will update tomorrow.


Thanks

 

[4ratbags]

Whatever cream you like. No matter what way you decide to go it does take time for the levels to drop. Congrats on the single figures by the way.

 

[LinsT]

Hi Lukeyboy - I found the 'What have you eaten today?' thread under the heading of Low Carb Diet Forum in the main forum list incredibly useful for ideas and inspiration. There's also a thread showing people's recipes in there. Browse the forums - there's loads of useful stuff in them.

 

[poshtotty]

Whatever cream you like. No matter what way you decide to go it does take time for the levels to drop. Congrats on the single figures by the way.

But beware of the ghastly Elmlea and artificial creams.

 

[Lukeyboy]

Sorry for the late reply.

Thanks again for all your contributions.

I've been a bit more casual with testing and food diary as I was getting a bit anxious with it so decided not best to be worrying constantly about it.

I'm regularly in the single figures now 2 hours after eating (Even after 3 bits of fruit) and have a DESMOND meeting in 2 weeks time to learn more about what foods I can it.

On LCHF

 

[Lukeyboy]

Hi guys,


What are your experiences with porridge/weetabix?

I've tried both, porridge (plain normal oats with nothing added but hot milk) which spiked me massively and this weekend I've tried 2 weetabix with single cream no sugar and my levels are sky high.

Does anybody get on with either of the above? I have my first DESMOND meeting on Thursday and I suspect from what I've read online that they will advise me to whole grains etc but I struggle even with brown rice, brown bread etc.

The porridge oats were a British brand, and the Weetabix were from ASDA but not the green and white type...I've heard the quality can make a difference but to how much of an extent? The reason I picked these over real Weetabix was what seemed a lower sugar content.

Any experiences from anyone else greatly received.

 

[Scottish Mum]

I think it's possible that you can live on foods you like, once you know what they do to your body. The only way to know is to go very low carb for a while and reintroduce a food at a time, to see what effect it has on your blood.

I have to say though, that even with the food you're eating, your levels seem on the high side, but it is a protein high diet you're following. My mum has readings like that and is insulin dependent. There could be something going on with your diagnosis or treatment, as a slim and fit T2 with high blood sugar readings on a restricted diet.

I think you need to keep a diary, and log what happens when you eat different foods, and revisit doctor with a view to getting a more suitable regime. Metformin alone might not be enough for you, but until you know what foods do, it's hard to tell how well controlled you can be on diet and exercise with metformin.

I also think your diet is deficient in much nutrients. Lots more leafy greens and some fruit would also be helpful if you make note of what each new one does to you.

Do you have a diabetes specialist at your surgery, or a nurse who would consider what you're saying?

EG, as in my footer, fresh grown peas from the garden send me soaring at a tablespoon full, yet i can eat a small chicken pizza with no effect.

 

[superwoman1964]

I cannot eat porridge or Weetabix without a huge spike. IF you like a cereal style breakfast why not try some raspberries (a handful), greek yoghurt, nuts (I like pecans). You can add a little sweetener if you want to. I also add a dash of double cream if I've got some in the fridge. HAs virtually no effect on my BG after 2 hours.

Yes I'm sure the DESMOND course will tell you to eat whole grains but personally I cannot tolerate any amount of bread, rice, pasta, wholegrain or otherwise.

Have you tried the LIDL high protein rolls. They are excellent and make a fab base for scrambled eggs (made with cream).

 

[Lukeyboy]

I think it's possible that you can live on foods you like, once you know what they do to your body. The only way to know is to go very low carb for a while and reintroduce a food at a time, to see what effect it has on your blood.

I have to say though, that even with the food you're eating, your levels seem on the high side, but it is a protein high diet you're following. My mum has readings like that and is insulin dependent. There could be something going on with your diagnosis or treatment, as a slim and fit T2 with high blood sugar readings on a restricted diet.

I think you need to keep a diary, and log what happens when you eat different foods, and revisit doctor with a view to getting a more suitable regime. Metformin alone might not be enough for you, but until you know what foods do, it's hard to tell how well controlled you can be on diet and exercise with metformin.

I also think your diet is deficient in much nutrients. Lots more leafy greens and some fruit would also be helpful if you make note of what each new one does to you.

Do you have a diabetes specialist at your surgery, or a nurse who would consider what you're saying?

EG, as in my footer, fresh grown peas from the garden send me soaring at a tablespoon full, yet i can eat a small chicken pizza with no effect.

Hi Scottish mum thanks for the reply.

I get quite a lot of fruit and veg, typically spinach most days, a tomato and cucumber as well as Brocolli 4 or more times a week. I eat an orange a day without fail (I have low levels after an orange) and usually an apple too. Occasionally ill have strawberries too.

I did start with a diary but found it make me very anxious about the foods I was eating and the readings I was getting so decided to stop it but make a mental note of what foods spike me and try to avoid moving forwards.

I'm not a doctor but I would have thought by now my levels would have been more stable considering my diet and metformin and as such believe I may need insulin moving forwards. However I'm keen to try and do my part with the diet side beforehand.

I'm not a big fan of cereals anyway because of all the carbs in them but needed to get some fibre in me and weetabix seemed a sensible choice.

 

[Lukeyboy]

I cannot eat porridge or Weetabix without a huge spike. IF you like a cereal style breakfast why not try some raspberries (a handful), greek yoghurt, nuts (I like pecans). You can add a little sweetener if you want to. I also add a dash of double cream if I've got some in the fridge. HAs virtually no effect on my BG after 2 hours.

Yes I'm sure the DESMOND course will tell you to eat whole grains but personally I cannot tolerate any amount of bread, rice, pasta, wholegrain or otherwise.

Have you tried the LIDL high protein rolls. They are excellent and make a fab base for scrambled eggs (made with cream).

That sounds nice I will try that out, thanks.

I haven't tried the LIDL high protein rolls...are they bread rolls?

 

[superwoman1964]

Yes the are very seedy and will give you all the fibre you need for a day. I sometimes add golden linseed and chia seeds to my raspberries / yoghurt / nuts.

It's really annoying when your body doesn't respond the way you expect isn't it but I know for me the benefits of Metformin are more to do with how it seems to make me less hungry. 2000 mg a day had no noticeable effects on my BG readings until I got down to about 20g carb per day.