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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Grazer" data-source="post: 259088" data-attributes="member: 31362">I think it's not about "bothering" with 2 sytems, it's just that we don't believe the NICE figures. The graph Phoenix shows comes from a lecture I read the notes from 18 months ago and was impressed with. Amongst the figures, you will see the "normal" 2 hour max for non-diabetics is about 140, 7.8 in our terms which is why some of us use it. It's also the average peak after an OGTT for non-diabetics. Prof Christianssen in this talk shows data from about 18000 subjects showing an increased death rate of 50% for subjects in a band starting at 140 (7.8) two hours post prandial, another reason why it's a reasonable figure to aim at rather than the "safe" (non-hypo) 8.5 figure NICE use. The 50% increase shouldn't be viewed with alarm - it means that if a normal person had an 8% chance of dying, it rose to !2% in that group. Also, the 50% is across the group which goes up to people with figures over 10, so the 8.5 would be a smaller %age risk. However, some of us like to stay in the no %age group which is sub 7.8 (although I suspect detailed examination would show a rise as 7.8 is approached)This guy christianssen isn't a quack by the way. Very well regarded as an expert in his field and key speaker at the diabetes symposium.</blockquote>

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