New Practice Nurse

serenity648 said:

In order to look for answers, people need to know the questions.

or, indeed, that there is even a question to be asked. It may not be laziness.

If I hadnt typed the wrong diabetes web address instead of the one given to me by my nurse, i may not have found out there was an alternative treatments available through diet. I simply thought that my surgery would give me to best info available, as they have done on numerous other medical situations I have encountered in the past. And i have had good treatment from the NHS over the years, so why would I look for advice from a different source?

I would have searched for info on type 2 diabetes and controlling it, but may not have come up with the info on carbs. Googling doesnt come up with the help available on here in its first two pages, by which time I wouldnt have continued to read more than 20 articles as all the standard info is roughly the same. I would have needed to know what, specifically, to search for.

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Whilst I agree with your basic assertion "In order to look for answers, people need to know the questions. or, indeed, that there is even a question to be asked. It may not be laziness......." to an extent, the starting words for responding to most recommendations are, in my view, why, how and when? That covers most of it really, and usually very quickly exposes whether the person delivering the recommendation is doing it by rote, or by in-depth knowledge.

A fairly recent chat, in a social environment, with a consultant opthalmologist who treats lots of diabetic eye disease, revealed that very, very few patients want to be engaged in their care at all, and for Doctors it can take years of experience for them to be confident enough to respond in a respectful, adult manner. Initially they tend to be a bit shocked and feel they are being undermined.

Whilst I can see how that would work, only be engaging in their on the job training, by making those challenges will be change to flow and overwhelming norm. If I want change to happen, I have to walk towards it, not to shy away from it.

I believe that the truth is that people like the majority of the members here are the very small tip of a very large iceberg and proactive T2 diabetes patients are a rare breed who stand apart from the mainstream, of the rest, some feel they should do something but then cant commit to a lifestyle change, some seem to have the attitude that we're all going to die anyway so why not eat drink and be merry and many other reasons why the majority just dont seem to want to change there lives around.

The old saying 'you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink' springs to mind and I know some of you will say that given the right information people could and would help themselves but that is simply not true, look at the thousands of smokers who know full well that they are harming their respiratory systems but choose not to stop smoking anyway.

I stopped smoking when I suffered respiratory failure as I was terrified but I know someone who had to have a triple heart bypass and as soon as she left the hospital she lit up cigarette and has smoked ever since! When I was told I was diabetic I was terrified, I went straight on a strict lc diet, lost 5 stone and made several successful lifestyle changes that I have maintained and I have had non diabetic numbers ever since however a musician I was passionate about, the beautiful man that was John Martyn whos pancreas gave up chose to carry on his hedonistic lifestyle and diet of beer and whiskey, had he decided to change his lifestyle he may well have still been alive today performing to his legion of fans all around the world.

There is no rhyme or reason why some people seek to help themselves and others sadly dont, until its too late.

Sid Bonkers said:

The old saying 'you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink' springs to mind and I know some of you will say that given the right information people could and would help themselves but that is simply not true, look at the thousands of smokers who know full well that they are harming their respiratory systems but choose not to stop smoking anyway.

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The smokers nowadays know full well their choices. Most diabetics dont know their choices. The information they need to make an informed choice is suppressed or ignored by most of the medical profession and media. Just like the dangers of smoking were suppressed and ignored initially. Or the idea that some stomach ulcers are a bacterial infection.

I think we should stop being hard on diabetics who are being let down by the system. If I hadnt typed in the wrong website address, with uk in instead of the one given by my diabetic nurse, i wouldnt have known about the choices either, as I said in a previous post.

And i was searching for more information. I was being proactive about learning, but the right search terms weren't given to me and didnt ocurr to me. Why would they? I had been given dietary information from someone who was trained to know these things, based on decades of research (judging from the millions going into a certain diabetes charity) so why would I question that?

I believe that expecting most people to automatically then turn round and start looking for different information is unreasonable.

As for questioning during the appointment, that requires nerves of steel, confidence, and, again, knowledge that there is alternative info out there - all while an impatient HCP is looking at their watch and you have been given the body blow of diagnosis.

Yes, there are some who ignore even the NHS advice and do nothing to help themselves, but many simply do not have the information they need to ask questions and effectively research.

Compassion is a good thing.

serenity648 said:

I think we should stop being hard on diabetics who are being let down by the system. If I hadnt typed in the wrong website address, with uk in instead of the one given by my diabetic nurse, i wouldnt have known about the choices either, as I said in a previous post.

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Which kind of proves my point doesnt it and shows that you were proactive in your diabetic care, the truth is that most just like smokers couldnt care less or dont want to hear the truth.

I was born in 1951 and by the time I was 12 or 13 and started smoking the cancer/COPD link to smoking was well known about but did it stop me smoking? No, and if you tell everyone in the world that they shoulnt be eating so many carbs they would look at you like you were from Mars.

It is well documented that we in the west eat too much and equally well documented that we eat too much convenience food, do we stop? No, other than those few of us who are proactive in our health care the rest coudnt care less and in fact they dont like being told that they should or shouldnt be doing, Im afraid its human nature and all the gong banging in the world will never change it..

Some will can call me cynical but I believe Im simply a realist.

Sid Bonkers said:

Which kind of proves my point doesnt it and shows that you were proactive in your diabetic care, the truth is that most just like smokers couldnt care less or dont want to hear the truth.

I was born in 1951 and by the time I was 12 or 13 and started smoking the cancer/COPD link to smoking was well known about but did it stop me smoking? No, and if you tell everyone in the world that they shoulnt be eating so many carbs they would look at you like you were from Mars.

It is well documented that we in the west eat too much and equally well documented that we eat too much convenience food, do we stop? No, other than those few of us who are proactive in our health care the rest coudnt care less and in fact they dont like being told that they should or shouldnt be doing, Im afraid its human nature and all the gong banging in the world will never change it..

Some will can call me cynical but I believe Im simply a realist.

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Hi @Sid Bonkers I agree with what you say, it is human nature. I started smoking at the age of 14 (60 years ago) and I stopped at the age of 25 (nearly 50 years ago), when I grew up. You certainly can't expect the general public to do anything but accept what their doctors, the government, and the media tell them, and what they see is generally accepted in society.
But I am not happy with the status quo and think 'something should be done'. I don't think the message is getting through quickly enough - there is an urgent need to re-educate the medical authorities and the medical practitioners. I would certainly be happy to support financially a campaign by DCUK to do just that.

Sid Bonkers said:

Which kind of proves my point doesnt it and shows that you were proactive in your diabetic care, the truth is that most just like smokers couldnt care less or dont want to hear the truth.

I was born in 1951 and by the time I was 12 or 13 and started smoking the cancer/COPD link to smoking was well known about but did it stop me smoking? No, and if you tell everyone in the world that they shoulnt be eating so many carbs they would look at you like you were from Mars.

It is well documented that we in the west eat too much and equally well documented that we eat too much convenience food, do we stop? No, other than those few of us who are proactive in our health care the rest coudnt care less and in fact they dont like being told that they should or shouldnt be doing, Im afraid its human nature and all the gong banging in the world will never change it..

Some will can call me cynical but I believe Im simply a realist.

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And how do we know that many others werent also pro active, but didnt have the luck to come across the right info, or plough through the numerous links etc with the standard NHS info, so they thought that there wasnt any other info out there?

If I am researching something that I have NO reason to doubt, and I come across 20+ articles backing up what I have been told, then I am not going to pursue it. Why would I?

When you started smoking, you say that cancer/COPD was well known about. But what if it hadnt been? What if the information had been hard to find, almost unheard of, and not mainstream? Would you have kept searching until you found it = bearing in mind that you didnt know that info was out there in the first place?

I dont see the current misinformation problem as human nature, I see it as deliberately hidden so people who want to know struggle to find it, and most dont even know its there.

serenity648 said:

When you started smoking, you say that cancer/COPD was well known about. But what if it hadnt been? What if the information had been hard to find, almost unheard of, and not mainstream? Would you have kept searching until you found it = bearing in mind that you didnt know that info was out there in the first place?

I dont see the current misinformation problem as human nature, I see it as deliberately hidden so people who want to know struggle to find it, and most dont even know its there.

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My point is that even knowing that smoking kills many thousands of smokers just dont care and thats the same with diabetics whether they know or not, some people want to help themselves but others sadly just dont.

I believe that to think that given different info outcomes would be vastly different is just pie in the sky. Regardless of what info T2's are given all those who are overweight and or obese are told they need to lose weight, how many do?

Sid Bonkers said:

Regardless of what info T2's are given all those who are overweight and or obese are told they need to lose weight, how many do?

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How many are given the correct tools to loose weight sustainably? 3 months after reading this forum I had buy a tool to punch new holes in my favourite belt.

The main problem is that despite being a common disease diabetes isn't understood very well.

The elephant in the room is unfortunately the fact that dietary advices are normally flawed and there are a lot of pressures to hide the nutrition facts and to promote healthier food habits. Nowadays here we hafe the problem that information on food caloric content could cause a decrease of the quantity of food sold.

Italian Farmers Union against the nutrition semaphore {Google Translate}

They're making the example of Parmigiano Reggiano unfortunately if you eat a hard cheese you'll get a lot of calories. If you try to reduce the calorie intake it's better to eat tagliatelle alla Bolognese with 20 grams of Parmigiano and not 200 grams.
What they should have done was to start a campaign against lower quality food spaghetti alla bolognese with parmesan, with overcooked pasta it's way worse than a dish made with quality ingredients.

It is well documented that we in the west eat too much and equally well documented that we eat too much convenience food, do we stop? No, other than those few of us who are proactive in our health care the rest coudnt care less and in fact they dont like being told that they should or shouldnt be doing, Im afraid its human nature and all the gong banging in the world will never change it..

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We're bobmarded with low quality food advertising and low quality food it's served everywhere. I've made the example of pasta, but the same thing could be said about a lot of foods.