NHS Direct doctor says... NO testing when taking Metformin

carliannie · May 12, 2015

999sugarbabe said:
Sorry for the length of this, it is all relevent...

I felt paticularly unwell the other day, and having gone without food for over 12 hours I tested my blood. My mmol/L was 12.0, which is high (for me).

I was preparing my lunch at the time and wondered if I should still eat my main meal with this high reading, or not? My thinking being - if my reading is already high then eating could raise it even more.

So, before cooking, I thought I'd ring "111" and ask their opinion (as it was a Bank Holiday and my options were limited).
I talked with a very nice lady on the phone. She checked with her superior and came back to me to say it was OK to still eat it. She said a doctor would call me back within the next couple of hours, but if I felt worse to ring 111 again.

Sometime later, after having cooked and eaten, I got a call from another lady saying the doctor was busy but would still call me back at some point. No problem I thought.

When the doctor eventually did call me he asked some routine questions but then launched into a lecture on blood testing!
He insisted I SHOULD NOT BE TESTING at all, as I was on Metformin. According to him, nobody on Metformin should be testing as it interferes with doing so (?!).
I tried to explain I have always tested once a day, originally on my G.P.s instruction (and whilst taking Metformin). I told him the doctor stopped issuing test strips about a year ago (£££), however I have been buying them to continue testing myself (normally only once a day).
I also pointed out to him if I didn't test my blood HOW was I supposed to know whether my diabetes was "under control" or not?
I had only tested twice on this occasion as I felt so unwell. Without testing I wouldn't have known my blood sugar level was the (probable) cause of me feeling ill.

The doctor grew increasingly stroppy saying I was making up my readings, as what I had told him wasn't possible!
WHY would I do such a thing? I even agreed with him that, the longer I went without food, I would have expected my reading to get lower, not higher.

For information my reading(s) that day were:

On waking (my normal testing time) my reading was 7.4
I don't eat breakfast, as a rule.
At 1215 (before eating) and after 12 hours + without food it was 12.0
(Lunch was eaten about 1300)
At 1410 it had reduced to 8.1
At 1515 it was 5.8
I ate again at teatime.
But at 2355 it was back up at 10.4 and I was feeling quite ill again. This time I didn't phone 111, as my previous dealings with their doctor had scared me off doing so!
I live alone, and I went to bed wondering if it would go higher in my sleep and (perhaps) never wake up.

Anyway, if you are still awake after reading all this...
Has ANYONE else been told NOT to take blood glucose readings whilst using Metformin? It's the first time since being diagnosed Type 2, in 2008, that I've ever heard of it.

How the hell is a sufferer supposed to take control of their diabetes WITHOUT knowing what their blood glucose is?

Puzzled.

Hi there...i have recently been diagnosed with T2 and was also told by diabetic nurse not to test unless I felt unwell, this is due to the fact that metformin lowers your bs but will never lower them enough to cause a hypo, however i still check them every so often to make sure they are stable as T2 does progress and I also monitor when feeling unwell. I was classed as prediabetic for 3 years beforehand and only by monitoring regularly did I discover that I had moved over to full blown diabetes. Personally if you feel you would like to continue monitoring your bs then do so you are paying for the strips yourself as I do and its your body and your health.

sally and james · May 12, 2015

Cornman said:
I have Type 2 and the one thing drummed into me was have breakfast, especially porridge, because it has slow release of energy

Cornman, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. What porridge has a slow release of is SUGAR. If you test every half hour after eating porridge, you will see that it takes a long time for levels to go down. If you want to eat breakfast, try eggs, cheese, bacon, full fat unsweetened yoghurt.
There is a school of thought that breakfast is a good meal to avoid altogether, giving your body and especially insulin levels and production, a 16 hour fast between your evening meal and next day's mid-day meal. There is plenty of glucose stored in your liver and muscles to keep you going and the process of gluconeogenesis will always make a bit more, if needed (and sometimes if not!). The Diet Doctor has links to more information about this.
Sally

sally and james · May 12, 2015

carliannie said:
i still check them every so often to make sure they are stable as T2 does progress

Carliannie, I'm afraid I am disagreeing with you too. T2 does not have to progress. For very many, who adopt a low carb diet it regresses, including partial, if not almost total reversal of some complications. I've seen this process with my husband, read about it here and many other places on line and been told about it by my husband's medical advisors. So, please don't think of testing as a way of seeing if you have got worse, use it as a way of demonstrating that you have got better!
Sally

mojo37 · May 12, 2015

chri5 said:
I think the reason we are told to take metformin with or after food is to avoid stomach upsets. As someone has already said, metformin has a fairly minimal effect on blood sugars. It is also very common for bg levels to rise if you haven`t eaten for a long time, I know mine do. As for not testing, someone on this forum once said, " would you drive a car without looking at the speedometer?".....says it all for me! It`s YOUR body and if you wish to self test then it`s no damned business of a doctor who doesn`t even know you.

Although I agree with the above for me when I have a long gap between meals my BG drops to the 3's and I feel unwell

DianaRose · May 12, 2015

I agree

sally and james said:
Cornman, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. What porridge has a slow release of is SUGAR. If you test every half hour after eating porridge, you will see that it takes a long time for levels to go down. If you want to eat breakfast, try eggs, cheese, bacon, full fat unsweetened yoghurt.
There is a school of thought that breakfast is a good meal to avoid altogether, giving your body and especially insulin levels and production, a 16 hour fast between your evening meal and next day's mid-day meal. There is plenty of glucose stored in your liver and muscles to keep you going and the process of gluconeogenesis will always make a bit more, if needed (and sometimes if not!). The Diet Doctor has links to more information about this.
Sally

I disagree with you about oats and porridge. I think it probably varies from person to person. Oats are an excellent soluble fibre and will make you feel full as well as releasing the small amount of sugar very slowly. If you have porridge will full cream milk etc that will slow it further as well as tasting extremely yummy. I couldn't do without breakfast and wouldn't if I was working or going to the gym or walking - as I do. I think breakfast is the most important meal of the day after fasting for 12 - 14 hours.

mojo37 · May 12, 2015

DianaRose said:
I agree

I disagree with you about oats and porridge. I think it probably varies from person to person. Oats are an excellent soluble fibre and will make you feel full as well as releasing the small amount of sugar very slowly. If you have porridge will full cream milk etc that will slow it further as well as tasting extremely yummy. I couldn't do without breakfast and wouldn't if I was working or going to the gym or walking - as I do. I think breakfast is the most important meal of the day after fasting for 12 - 14 hours.

That's the thing it does vary from person to person I seem to able to tolerate porridge and even a slice of whole meal bread ( tho not at the same time ).I can have up to 40 (slow release carbs ) 3 times a day as long as I do at least 20 mins aerobic exercise between meals .

Lamont D · May 12, 2015

mojo37 said:
Although I agree with the above for me when I have a long gap between meals my BG drops to the 3's and I feel unwell

Hi,
How many times have not ate and had hypos?
Do you regularly check your fasting number?
What are the symptoms when you feel unwell?
I'm curious because I can relate to your post.

mojo37 · May 12, 2015

nosher8355 said:
Hi,
How many times have not ate and had hypos?
Do you regularly check your fasting number?
What are the symptoms when you feel unwell?
I'm curious because I can relate to your post.

Well I've always had shakey hands lack of concentration etc when I'm very hungry well since I was in my teens . Wasn't diabetic then I was fit and healthy , now I am diagnosed I have tested if and when that happens and my BG is always in the 3's . Even when I have tested when feeling very hungry and have had readings in the low 4's. I think for some folk low 4's etc are fine for me its not .Shortly after eating I feel ok again .MY ex husband none diabetic and slim and fit could go all day without eating and feel fine . I regularly test am fasting and my numbers at present are between low 8's and mid 6's tho when I lost weight last year my range was in the 5's .I think I might have waffled on somewhat but yes I always get shaky and just can not concentrate when I have too big of a gap between meals .

jenrose · May 12, 2015

As for the advice rolled out that you should not test as 'testing causes anxiety' I would find not being able to test would cause me anxiety, especially as I know blood sugars go up when you are ill, as I found out when I had and infection and took antibiotics for it. My aunt died nearly two years ago, she had sickness and diarrhea and ended up in hospital with organ failure. I know she had type 2 diabetes but I don't know if she had a meter or had her blood sugars tested before she went to hospital. I know her son had a meter as is on insulin but did not like to ask.

Lamont D · May 12, 2015

It's unusual for T2s to regularly get hypos unless they are on diabetic meds.
You do have fasting bloods of a diabetic, but that doesn't explain the lows and feeling poorly.
Have you asked your doctor about your getting hypos?

mojo37 · May 12, 2015

nosher8355 said:
It's unusual for T2s to regularly get hypos unless they are on diabetic meds.
You do have fasting bloods of a diabetic, but that doesn't explain the lows and feeling poorly.
Have you asked your doctor about your getting hypos?

Hi is this post in reply to mine ?...if so I never said that I get regular "hypos" I just stated how I felt when I went too long ( for me)and this for me as always been the case and the few times that I have tested my BG was in the 3's

Lamont D · May 12, 2015

mojo37 said:
Hi is this post in reply to mine ?...if so I never said that I get regular "hypos" I just stated how I felt when I went too long ( for me)and this for me as always been the case and the few times that I have tested my BG was in the 3's

Yes it was!
Sorry if I'm reading something from nothing. It's just that I suffered hypos for years that my doctors didn't know what was going on.
Apologies again.

mojo37 · May 12, 2015

nosher8355 said:
Yes it was!
Sorry if I'm reading something from nothing. It's just that I suffered hypos for years that my doctors didn't know what was going on.
Apologies again.

That's ok its just difficult with txt sometimes to tell what people meaning . I see that you are not classed as diabetic but Late reactive Hypoglycaemic ...not sure what that is but I assume its to do with Hypos .In my case the unwell feelings I get have always been present since I was about 15 so its sort of a normal thing for me and easily sorted ie I eat something . Now of course it does concern me because I want to keep my BG as level as possible .

golfer24271003 · May 12, 2015

999sugarbabe said:
Sorry for the length of this, it is all relevent...

I felt paticularly unwell the other day, and having gone without food for over 12 hours I tested my blood. My mmol/L was 12.0, which is high (for me).

I was preparing my lunch at the time and wondered if I should still eat my main meal with this high reading, or not? My thinking being - if my reading is already high then eating could raise it even more.

So, before cooking, I thought I'd ring "111" and ask their opinion (as it was a Bank Holiday and my options were limited).
I talked with a very nice lady on the phone. She checked with her superior and came back to me to say it was OK to still eat it. She said a doctor would call me back within the next couple of hours, but if I felt worse to ring 111 again.

Sometime later, after having cooked and eaten, I got a call from another lady saying the doctor was busy but would still call me back at some point. No problem I thought.

When the doctor eventually did call me he asked some routine questions but then launched into a lecture on blood testing!
He insisted I SHOULD NOT BE TESTING at all, as I was on Metformin. According to him, nobody on Metformin should be testing as it interferes with doing so (?!).
I tried to explain I have always tested once a day, originally on my G.P.s instruction (and whilst taking Metformin). I told him the doctor stopped issuing test strips about a year ago (£££), however I have been buying them to continue testing myself (normally only once a day).
I also pointed out to him if I didn't test my blood HOW was I supposed to know whether my diabetes was "under control" or not?
I had only tested twice on this occasion as I felt so unwell. Without testing I wouldn't have known my blood sugar level was the (probable) cause of me feeling ill.

The doctor grew increasingly stroppy saying I was making up my readings, as what I had told him wasn't possible!
WHY would I do such a thing? I even agreed with him that, the longer I went without food, I would have expected my reading to get lower, not higher.

For information my reading(s) that day were:

On waking (my normal testing time) my reading was 7.4
I don't eat breakfast, as a rule.
At 1215 (before eating) and after 12 hours + without food it was 12.0
(Lunch was eaten about 1300)
At 1410 it had reduced to 8.1
At 1515 it was 5.8
I ate again at teatime.
But at 2355 it was back up at 10.4 and I was feeling quite ill again. This time I didn't phone 111, as my previous dealings with their doctor had scared me off doing so!
I live alone, and I went to bed wondering if it would go higher in my sleep and (perhaps) never wake up.

Anyway, if you are still awake after reading all this...
Has ANYONE else been told NOT to take blood glucose readings whilst using Metformin? It's the first time since being diagnosed Type 2, in 2008, that I've ever heard of it.

How the hell is a sufferer supposed to take control of their diabetes WITHOUT knowing what their blood glucose is?

Puzzled.

Hi my bloods go up and down like a yo yo it have to test 4 times a day before breakfast before lunch before dinner and before going to bed. I take insulin and metformin tabs 3 times a day before meals if I don't eat my bloods go down if it goes below 5 I start to get the effects of a hypo and have to eat something sweet some days my levels for no reason zoom up to 16 to 18 I have tried explaining this to the hospital but as usual they don't care unless you have a major hypo or you blood go to high that you go into a coma. I have numoius other things wrong with me so I have to live each day at a time which is hard.

Cornman said:
I have Type 2 and the one thing drummed into me was have breakfast, especially porridge, because it has slow release of energy .
I think you're poor body is being starved of energy for hours, which means it starts drawing what resources it can muster up, having gone into panic mode. This, I believe, results in a whole load of sugary stuff being sourced from the far reaches of your body, resulting in sky high blood-sugar readings. Diabetis UK called its magazine Balance for a very good reason - unless you have a balanced diet, and that means regular meals, you'll get eratic readings, which are not good for your well-being. Force yourself to have breakfast, ideally porridge and you'll quickly notice the difference.

Lamont D · May 12, 2015

mojo37 said:
That's ok its just difficult with txt sometimes to tell what people meaning . I see that you are not classed as diabetic but Late reactive Hypoglycaemic ...not sure what that is but I assume its to do with Hypos .In my case the unwell feelings I get have always been present since I was about 15 so its sort of a normal thing for me and easily sorted ie I eat something . Now of course it does concern me because I want to keep my BG as level as possible .

That's exactly, what was happening to me!

I was diagnosed as prediabetic, then diabetic, and I was really totally always not good, not normal me!

I have to stay totally in control. The fluctuations in my blood glucose levels made me ill.

You can read my blog, if your interested.

There is also the reactive Hypoglycaemia thread in ' Ask a question' forum.

My symptoms are very closely related to T2, and similar to what you are experiencing now.
And it took a referral to an endocrinologist to get a diagnosis.

mojo37 · May 13, 2015

nosher8355 said:
That's exactly, what was happening to me!

I was diagnosed as prediabetic, then diabetic, and I was really totally always not good, not normal me!

I have to stay totally in control. The fluctuations in my blood glucose levels made me ill.

You can read my blog, if your interested.

There is also the reactive Hypoglycaemia thread in ' Ask a question' forum.

My symptoms are very closely related to T2, and similar to what you are experiencing now.
And it took a referral to an endocrinologist to get a diagnosis.

Hi its certainly a complicated illness ...I will take a look at your blog and the thread

robertconroy · May 17, 2015

Sounds crazy to me a doctor would tell you you don't need to test on Metformin. Bonkers!

TyTy · May 17, 2015

hi i just been diagnosed with T2 , i went to see my DN last week for the first time . I told her that i was going to start the ND and could i have a testing machine to measure my Blood sugar, She was wonderful and said it was ok and gave me a machine.

but i am not sure why the doctors said that to you

graj0 · May 18, 2015

TyTy said:
. . . . . . . but i am not sure why the doctors said that to you

It's because they have seen the research that's been done showing that patients not taking insulin do not benefit from taking their BG. http://www.cfah.org/hbns/2012/for-d...in-self-monitoring-blood-sugar-has-no-benefit is one example and there are others.

It begs the question about what sort of person took part in the research, if you're cutting carbs to help control your diabetes then it's essential that you know what's going on, just in case a particular food has more of an effect on you BG than you expected. Also the fact that we all react differently to different sorts of carb means that we can't rely on a single source of information, we're all different.

They must have had participants who weren't that concerned about spikes.

Nearly forgot, the GP has to be able to justify why he isn't prescribing test strips. Poor justification in my book.

Ali H · May 18, 2015

This forum represents a tiny minority of people with Diabetes. The vast majority of people I talk to with it are clueless and what's more, don't want to know or change. I have a friend on insulin who is always in the mid to late teens. She was told to eat a banana and porridge for breakfast by the Dr. She told me until a Dr tells her otherwise, she won't change........ despite talking to her about low carbing!

Ali

NHS Direct doctor says... NO testing when taking Metformin

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

mojo37

Guest

Active Member

mojo37

Guest

Oracle

mojo37

Guest

Well-Known Member

Oracle

mojo37

Guest

Oracle

mojo37

Guest

Newbie

Oracle

mojo37

Guest

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

graj0

Guest

Well-Known Member

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency