NHS Nuts ?

I think you're right to be very sceptical of some of the NHS dietary old wives tales.
The idea that cholesterol in eggs raises serum cholesterol is a sure sign that someone hasn't really grasped the significance of cholesterol, or properly understood its biosynthesis.
80% of our cholesterol is level is a result of the liver and its synthesis of cholesterol from carbohydrates. In fact, if more eggs are eaten, cholesterol biosynthesis by the liver is suppressed by dietary cholesterol. So a 'low-cholesterol' diet can often have precisely the opposite effect from the one often suggested - it can raise cholesterol.
A diet low in carbohydrates is almost always associated with a reduction in total cholesterol and particularly with a significant drop in triglycerides and an increase in HDL.
Not all nuts are equal. Cashews have a lot more carbs than walnuts or macadamias for example. However, since they are all a lot lower in carbs than the starches usually recommended to diabetics, I'd expect to see an improvement in cholesterol numbers if we eat nuts instead of starch.
Anyway, here I am on a minimum of 14 eggs per week and walnuts, macadamias and pine nuts most days too. Cholesterol at 4.9, and trigs at 0.7.

All the best,

fergus

Hi MK,

Well, they do say that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and your nurse seems to be a shining example of this - with the emphasis on little!

Firstly there are 2 main components to cholesterol. LDL is the "bad" cholesterol that carries things to your arteries that will clog them. HDL is the "good cholesterol which reverses the harm done by the LDL. So the aim should be not to get your "cholesterol level" down, but to reduce the LDL and increase the HDL. So what effect does what you eat have on this? There are some foods that contain natural, and perfectly healthy, cholesterol. These include nuts, cheese and eggs. But only around 15-20% of your body's cholesterol comes from the cholesterol in food, like eggs, cheese and nuts. The other 80% is manufactured by your liver - and to do this it needs carbohydrate. So a diet that includes starchy carbohydrates and cuts out natural cholesterol-containing foods will actually increase your overall cholesterol (in particular the bad LDL), not decrease it!

However, your nurse is right about the beneficial effects of almonds. In a research study done in Canada in 2002, they found that patients on a "full dose" of almonds per day (74g) had a 9.4% overall reduction on cholesterol after 1 month and a 12% improvement in the ratio of HDL to LDL. Those on a half dose of almonds showed a 4.4% reduction and 7.8% improvement in HDL-LDL ratio. The control group who were given a muffin each day (starchy carbohydrate) instead of almonds showed an increase in cholesterol, in particular an increase in the bad LDL.

So by all means eat as many almonds as you like, but there's no need to cut out any foods that contain natural cholesterol, just those that contain starchy carbs.

With reference to nuts I eat both walnuts and almonds and my cholesterol last time was the lowest it has been. I don't know anything about eggs as I have IBS and can't eat them, along with other things, that would be helpful with the diabetes. My bp is good too.

This is far from a 'low' carb site but if you do a search on nuts you will find lots of info on the benefits (particularly to cardio vascular health and weight loss )for different types of nuts.
http://whfoods.org/
Eggs are one of those items that have had various results in research. I don't think there is a straightforward answer as to whether they are good or bad for people with potential CVD problems.
This editorial poses some of the problems, and has links to most of the recent research http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/87/4/799?etoc

As to cheese, well I probably agree with your Nurse but you need to make up your mind about sat animal fat.
IF you decide to cut down (otherwise ignore)
smaller portions... most often on a French cheese course you get 3 different cheeses, by UK standards they cut are thin slivers, its enough after a meal with the last of the red wine.
Stronger cheeses like parmesan have lots of flavour but you don't need so much in cooking.
Some sheep and goat cheeses are far lower in fat.
Low fat cheddar is horrible, but low fat 'cammembert', feta and mozarella are OK.

Eggs are awesome. Full stop. No debate. They are quick to cook, taste great, have no impact on your BG and DO NOT REQUIRE INSULIN!

How can that NOT be great for diabetics?

14 eggs a week, eh Ferg? Lightweight... :wink:

Eggs are awesome. Full stop. No debate. They are quick to cook, taste great, have no impact on your BG and DO NOT REQUIRE INSULIN!

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Thats not really accurate. Some time before the Gi index was developed work was started on an insulin index.

' Some foods (such as meat, fish, and eggs) that contain no carbohydrate, just protein and fat (and essentially have a GI value of zero), still stimulate significant rises in blood insulin'

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Mendoza give details at [url=http:....htm]http://www.mendosa.com/insulin_index.htm[/url]
I find I need about the same amount of insulin to 'cover' 2 boiled eggs as 30 gms of oatmeal + milk.

I still love eggs...

phoenix said:

' Some foods (such as meat, fish, and eggs) that contain no carbohydrate, just protein and fat (and essentially have a GI value of zero), still stimulate significant rises in blood insulin'
Mendoza give details at http://www.mendosa.com/insulin_index.htm

I find I need about the same amount of insulin to 'cover' 2 boiled eggs as 30 gms of oatmeal + milk.

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That would explain why my bg levels are so high at lunchtime after I have had scrambled eggs for breakfast, thanks for that phoenix, I bow to your knowledge

Patch, I eat them too, I didn't mean to sound snappy(reading it back perhaps it did).... I'm just aware that when some people on insulin get a shock when they find they actually need insulin for protein.

Scrambled eggs with cream and butter are one of the most delicious meals possible, especially if still a little runny.
1 minute 30 seconds in the microwave and when removed, keep whisking for another few seconds. Angels in heaven don't get better food.
Hana
Oh and I love nuts, eat nuts, am nuts :lol:

Sid Bonkers said:

phoenix said:

' Some foods (such as meat, fish, and eggs) that contain no carbohydrate, just protein and fat (and essentially have a GI value of zero), still stimulate significant rises in blood insulin'
Mendoza give details at http://www.mendosa.com/insulin_index.htm

I find I need about the same amount of insulin to 'cover' 2 boiled eggs as 30 gms of oatmeal + milk.

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That would explain why my bg levels are so high at lunchtime after I have had scrambled eggs for breakfast, thanks for that phoenix, I bow to your knowledge

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Yes I am exactly the same Phoenix & Sid.

This was a message I posted some time ago regarding eggs

iHs said:

Patch said:

Eggs have a minimal effect on BG... I like nothing more than 4 eggs scrambled with a dash of double cream for breakfast.

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Not so for everyone Patch. As an insulin user I followed with interest Fergus's messages about using eggs for breakfast on their own or with bacon and mushrooms.

For some unknown reason I found that a plain 2 egg omelette raised my bg levels to way above 12 mid morning. This was with a starting bg reading of 4.8 and using my usual basal dose plus 4 units of bolus. I was quite surprised to see how high my bg had gone even though I had not eaten any carb. I did not bother to correct and just wait until lunchtime and then do a bg test. Guess what, it had fallen just to 10 so was still way too high. If I had eaten my usual breakfast of half slice of toast and used the same amount of insulin, my bg would have been about 6-7 mid morning and then drop back to 3 or 4 by lunchtime.

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So you see everyone, not all of Dr Bernstein's recommendations are going to suit everyone :?

You can try soaking almonds in water for a couple of hours, they seem to taste much better; pumpkin seeds too.

I have no problems with eggs, I often have a 2 egg omelette as a mid morning snack with only a minimal impact on my BG. After a breakfast of bacon, 2 eggs, tomatoes and mushrooms I rarely go above 7.5 at 1 hour PP and I'm usually into the 5s at 2 hours, 1 slice of low GI wholegrain gives me a higher BG level and takes longer to stabilise, as for oatmeal just lets say into orbit at 1 hour PP :twisted: .

Also lets not forget the added nutritional benefits of eggs.

As it does not cause surges in blood sugar and insulin, the protein in eggs is a steady and sustained source of energy.
Eggs are rich in protein and nutrients including thiamin, riboflavin, folate, B12 and B6, the B vitamins that are essential for energy production.
One eggs supplies more than 6 grams of high quality protein (about 13 per cent of the daily value) which helps to preserve muscle mass and prevent muscle loss in older adults.
Eggs are rich in leucine, an essential amino acid that helps the body use energy and muscles recover after exercise.
Eggs have all the amino acids the body needs to build and maintain muscle mass.
Eggs are often used as the "gold standard", a comparison for assessing the protein content of other foods.

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http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/139231.php

It seems that the essential amino acid leucine, which is found in eggs, helps to reduce loss of muscle tissue, promotes loss of body fat and helps stabilize blood glucose levels, thus preventing the sugar spiking that plagues dieters.

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http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/c ... 266020&p=2

I agree with Patch Fergus is a lightweight , I think even Dr Katherine consumes more, from what I can recall it was around 18 a week.

Graham

Right, that's it!
I'm gonna get up to over 20 eggs this week by comin' round to your houses under cover of darkness and eggin' them! :twisted:

In other news, and amidst all the incessant din of news stories about which exotic berry is this week's latest 'superfood', don't eggs contain 9 of the 13 essential vitamins? Now that's a proper superfood! Something like that, though if my numbers are wrong, I'll save some of those eggs to apply to my face later as well.

fergus

Hi Fergus this is a nutritional breakdown of eggs looks good to me and if you do splatter my house with eggs make sure they are organic I might be scraping them up to make a giant omelette :lol:

http://www.aeb.org/LearnMore/NutrientBreakdown.htm

Cheers Graham

"graham64 said:

Hi Fergus this is a nutritional breakdown of eggs looks good to me and if you do splatter my house with eggs make sure they are organic I might be scraping them up to make a giant omelette

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That's a good point. I ONLY eat free range eggs (it's one of the only foods where I'm SUPER strict on only eating the best).

IIRC - ONLY Free Range, Organic eggs have the high quality Omega 3 fats. Eggs from caged hens pale in comparison... (And the yolks actualy ARE pale in comparison!)

I'm the same as Grahm... just a sniff of one slice of wholemeal bread and my BG soars to double figures. I can have a 3 egg omlette with mushrooms / ham / peppers etc and need no insulin. 2 hour result rarely over 7

Life would be dull if we were all the same!

And sorry Fergus... I'm with Patch and the other guys... if you're on 14 eggs a week what are you doing with the other 4 days???

Cath

I'm curious to learn how the recommendation to significantly increase protein intake can be reconciled with the advice given to those with some degree of kidney damage, which is to reduce same? For example I enjoy eggs very much, but have been advised to restrict the number I eat to no more than 2 per week, specifically because of nephropathy. Since following this regime my kidney function has actually increased (from 40% to 52%) which is great, but I'd love to eat more eggs and I'm "nervous" of the potential consequences.