NHS

ally1 said:

I had read that.
I dread to think what the health service is then like in other countries

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Other EU countries spend more of their GDP on healthcare; whether publicly fund or through insurance schemes. I think this should be treated with some scepticism.

ElkBond said:

Absolute cheek to have a quote from J Hunt there, he either thinks what he is doing is working or going to try harder next year to cripple it. US at the bottom, no surprises there yet thats the way he wants the NHS to go, we just have to keep fighting with the staff and reduce the privatisation as much as possible. Rant Done.

I thought the Scandinavian countries would have fared better actually.

But well done to the Staff, they really deserve medals, my mother worked in the NHS her whole career and now I have a lot of dealings with them, due to, of course the reason I am on this site. They are understaffed but do everything they possibly can to get things in motion. Real dedication and its admirable.

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Yes. We have very dedicated staff in our NHS who have suffered real terms pay cuts for years. This is now seriously affecting recruitment and retention. 17,500 EU nationals left the service last year.

As far as the US system is concerned, we now have a situation where Republican baby killers are trying to remove healthcare from 22 million people. Members of Congress have free health care, but want to deny it to everyone else. Tax cuts for the rich; health cuts for the poor.

pleinster said:

Still, bad management is bad management

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A conundrum, as an employee there was an appraisal system in place which in theory would tell me how good or how bad I was at my job. Who tells the top manager?

Some parts of the NHS are good, some are bad. My ex SIL was an ex nurse and a health visitor. Her sister died of bowel cancer in the 1980's, my SIL had symptoms went to her GP, who pooed pooed her worries about bowel cancer. To cut a long story short, she went privately, paid with her savings and yes, she had bowel cancer. She went through treatments and one was a specialist treatment in London. Sadly, the cancer spread to her liver and my my lovely ex SIL died in September last year. Her two daughter's, my nieces, have been tested for the disease and one of them has the gene, but wont say who it is.
When I had my daughter 16 years ago, it was a life threatening medical emergency ( HELLP syndrome) the treatment and care from the maternity department, that includes all the staff, was exceptional, they saved our lives and I am truly gratetful for everything. The A& E department was very good recently, wood embedded in my arm and some other accidents I had and the person with me said that if he had cause to go to A&E he would go to my hospital, as he said his A&E ( 20 miles away) is not good, people have to stand behind a yellow line at the desk and a screen is there too.
There is good and bad in all hospital's and my SIL did say the NHS had changed dramatically since she was a nurse, she was trained in 1969, other NHS system's too, but.......................if it wasn't there, I and my then premature baby probably wouldn't be alive today.

JohnEGreen said:

If Hunt and May get their way.
40 pounds for phone call from your doctor and eighty pounds per consultation at the surgery.

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Your figures may be low side. Years ago there was a sign up at my GP's saying £50 for a 10 minute consultation with GP. It was impossible to get an NHS appointment other than telephone and she opted out of the prescription service used by all the GP's my family went to. There was a lot of housebuilding and rumour had it many people could not get a local GP. I strongly suspect that getting an appointment could still be challenging without the diabetes and a couple of other factors.

covknit said:

Your figures may be low side. Years ago there was a sign up at my GP's saying £50 for a 10 minute consultation with GP. It was impossible to get an NHS appointment other than telephone and she opted out of the prescription service used by all the GP's my family went to. There was a lot of housebuilding and rumour had it many people could not get a local GP. I strongly suspect that getting an appointment could still be challenging without the diabetes and a couple of other factors.

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My Grandmother and Father often used to refer to the time before the NHS when they could not afford to call the doctor, or had to pay the bill a bit at a time. Never let the Conservatives OR Labour privatise NHS services.

Robinredbreast said:

Some parts of the NHS are good, some are bad. My ex SIL was an ex nurse and a health visitor. Her sister died of bowel cancer in the 1980's, my SIL had symptoms went to her GP, who pooed pooed her worries about bowel cancer. To cut a long story short, she went privately, paid with her savings and yes, she had bowel cancer. She went through treatments and one was a specialist treatment in London. Sadly, the cancer spread to her liver and my my lovely ex SIL died in September last year. Her two daughter's, my nieces, have been tested for the disease and one of them has the gene, but wont say who it is.
When I had my daughter 16 years ago, it was a life threatening medical emergency ( HELLP syndrome) the treatment and care from the maternity department, that includes all the staff, was exceptional, they saved our lives and I am truly gratetful for everything. The A& E department was very good recently, wood embedded in my arm and some other accidents I had and the person with me said that if he had cause to go to A&E he would go to my hospital, as he said his A&E ( 20 miles away) is not good, people have to stand behind a yellow line at the desk and a screen is there too.
There is good and bad in all hospital's and my SIL did say the NHS had changed dramatically since she was a nurse, she was trained in 1969, other NHS system's too, but.......................if it wasn't there, I and my then premature baby probably wouldn't be alive today.

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A sad story too often repeated.

There will always be horror stories relating to health care, no matter which country we live in. Happily, these are in the minority. We should all be grateful for our NHS and stop moaning about it. Of course it has its failings, and from this forum we can see some towns fare worse than others and end up in special measures, but in my humble opinion this is a management problem. If one area can excel, (and many do) then so could others.

dbr10 said:

Never let the Conservatives OR Labour privatise NHS services.

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Dentists went that way, well most of them. Doctors surgeries are now set up so that they can privatise at the drop of a hat. I don't really have much confidence in government whatever the colour.

DavidGrahamJones said:

Dentists went that way, well most of them. Doctors surgeries are now set up so that they can privatise at the drop of a hat. I don't really have much confidence in government whatever the colour.

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No. Nor me. Labour did increase the proportion of GDP spent on healthcare up to the European average very briefly; but they were also privatising some services. And dental care seems to have been completely neglected. It was not possible to get an NHS dentist in our area at one time.

The NHS is a complicated beast actually made up of lots of different pieces, and that seems to reflect my feelings on it.

I've worked with local health commissioners in my CCG (replaced PCTs) and have to say that every single one of them was absolutely dedicated to improving outcomes for the disabled children we were talking about. Significant improvements, clearer pathways, better communication, more efficient partnerships with non-NHS services were all implemented and had significant impact.

On the other hand, CCGs now have to work with at-times private companies who bid to run pockets of services for a period of years. In Bristol we were lucky enough to hold onto an NHS-led group for our community children's services; elsewhere in the country, they've been less lucky, and, consequently, families are being denied essential services such as continence products, O2 tanks and basic hygiene items (for cleaning central lines and trachys) for their kids. These companies are answerable only to their shareholders; they do not engage in the type of feedback participation I'm used to delivering, they do not care about the patient experience.

I don't doubt it's a similar story in adult services, too.

GPs now have to work in profit-led practices (see how Dr Unwin won a prize for drastically cutting medication costs - I'll find the link later) while demonstrating a positive impact on their local communities. This is done through heavy-handed monitoring where, year on year, surgeries have to demonstrate an increase in specific demographics: carers, BAME (Black, Asian, Minority Ethnic), victims of addition, obesity and so on. This has led to practise managers who are no longer GP partners but administrators who literally target patients ("quick winners") and crunch numbers. We're almost at a point where you do or don't get the treatment you need because of your profile instead of your need (speaking as someone who has literally lost their mobility because, for 3 years, the advice was "Lose some weight").

Hospitals have become so specific that if you get sent to the wrong one (in Bristol, we have 9), that has a group of specialities your case doesn't fall under, it could be days before your are correctly diagnosed and sent to a place with the correct group of medics on hand. The flip side is that, if you're sent to a hospital with the correct specialties, you'll be diagnosed, treated and looked after very well. By and large, people tend to be sent to the correct hospital, but, increasingly, with hospitals now being funded by which specialities they deliver and the outcomes of their patients, there is less encouragement to try to save the almost-hopeless patient (see any OAP awaiting heart surgery) than there was before the specialty system was implemented.

The cost of medications is rising steadily, and the price is being paid from "non-essential" budgets, such as procurement and A&E. While acute and emergency medicine targets are being met (people not dying in A&E departments), waiting times are rising, and triage is becoming an evermore relied-upon process. Which doesn't seem bad, except nurses aren't trained to recognise all the symptoms that require immediate attention and, increasingly, slip-ups are made (see any story where someone with meningitis was sent home, eg).

In Bristol, the Children's Hospital was awarded several million pounds (via an education fund they applied to in partnership with Bristol's 2 universities) to recruit acute nurses. There was funding for 45 full-time nurses. After advertising across the south of Wales and the south-west of England, they were able to hire less than half that number. There just aren't enough nurses being trained to do the job. And now EU nurses needed to make up essential staffing numbers will find it even harder to work in the UK. The unspent money had to be returned; it couldn't be spent on bank nurses.

While I'm grateful to have such ready access to GPs, medication and acute services, I can't say that I've been delighted with the treatment I've received. I appreciate the dedication of the staff I've been treated by, and understand that their hands are tied by a system that limits what they're able to do. But with NHS England and NICE (the dual spines of the every day NHS) constantly having to compromise, I suspect the NHS's glory days are behind it unless serious investment is made immediately available.

Yes, it's worse elsewhere in the world. But that's no reason to be okay with the way things are now. I love the NHS, I admire the idealism upon which its founded. But something drastic has to change and it has to change fast if its to remain the jewel in the UK's crown.

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention, as well, the "war" on junior doctors and the pay freeze which has seen nurses and front-line staff essentially take a heavy pay cut in the last 8 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/n...octors-dentists-nurses-midwives-a7654251.html

We have to remember what saves lives and has most benefit on health; this list is in about the right order.

• Clean water
• Drains that work (and toilets ec)
• Most children getting childhood vaccinations (so herd effect works even when the vaccination does not give 100% protection)
• Basic treatment for dehydration in babies and children
• Univeral understanding of how germs spread
• Health visitors for new babies
• correct usage of antibiotic

Hence North Korea gets much better health outcomes then the USA, as the most benefit comes from 100% of the population having access and engagement with the basics. Basic universal health care free at the point of usage gives the best results. As soon as people are able to choose healthcare providers etc, the middle classes like us do better, but there is a much greater risk of some people not accessing healthcare.

It makes very little difference overall if someone with a complex condition gets a new drug that is very expensive and may let them live a few months longer. The money can be much better spent on getting children cycling to school etc, then on “advanced health care”.

And yes we do need to train more nurses, but lets start with removing the requirement for them to do a 3 year degree and go back to most training being "on the job" so that "care staff" can train to become nurses like they used to before we decided everyone had to go to university.

Doctors in France are pay a lot less then in the UK, yet they seem a lot happier with their life, hence I think few of the problems with junior doctors are due to their pay. One issue is that the number of junior doctors is limited so that they can all get promoted as soon as they have "done their time" and passed their exams. Hence preventing the NHS having a lot more junior doctors.

SockFiddler said:

Edit: Sorry, I forgot to mention, as well, the "war" on junior doctors and the pay freeze which has seen nurses and front-line staff essentially take a heavy pay cut in the last 8 years. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/n...octors-dentists-nurses-midwives-a7654251.html

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Real wages down 1 per cent since 2010 and 6 per cent since 2008. The "JAMS" have also had their in work be efits cut. Meanwhile the richest 1 per cent have seen their wealth grow - mainly because of the BoE QE program which has increased asset prices like property and shares. As Gideon Osborne used to say, "We're all in it together"

Which is almost enough to have me seguing into non-taxable Non-Dom status and then into Kensington and then onto Grenfell.

It's all a big mess, really.

Honestly, though, nurses and teachers. Two of the hardest, most demanding jobs and two of the least rewarded and most taken for granted. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm anti-NHS. I'm completely pro-NHS, but blind love isn't going to fix what's urgently in need of mending.

I have nothing but praise for ALL the staff in the nhs. Some aren't treated very well. Shame on the inflictors!
I would be dead a few times over by now.
I still have yrs in me yet. One day I'd like to pay them back with my hands on help. If they'll have me.
Unfortunately I cannot do shift work anymore but anything family friendly once I'm up and running again I'd gladly give my loyal support.
I'm all for returning the favour. ♡♥♡

I think some of our NHS is good but some of that may be due to fact that private insurance schemes do take some of the burden off it.

I'm just paying for a £250 consuktation privately as my GP put me to see a rheumatology nurse after being in agony for 16 weeks . Then I will have to wait another 18 weeks after nurse appt late Sept.

So my only way is to pay privately from own income for surgeon and op.

Yet others like cancer and diabetes, we are still a way behind USA. Only difference is the way we pay for our care...and we are still paying but just dont see it itemised on wage packets.

I've had good care on the whole from NHS. There is definitely a postcode lottery though. I suspect that if people are in London, major large tertiary care, training hospitals that they are happier with NHS than others.

GPs vary across the country. I've got one where if you need to be seen they guarantee you an appt on the day but its all. Assd upon a telephone system for 10,000 patients.

It is the plan to make single GP standalone practices a thing of the past. It will be that GPs have to sign up to a sort of hub system of 60,000 patients upwards in England. Join your PPG's to find out whats happening at your GP practice.

I think quietly things are being changed but the trouble is there is too many management and side shoots to NHS today like the CQC that doctors have to pay £6,000 upward annually for themselves to be able to treat patients and then be inspected. They are run as businesses with healthwatch, individual CCG's etc. There is no actual "National" any more its all split down into loads and loads of admin and management....

.

donnellysdogs said:

I think some of our NHS is good but some of that may be due to fact that private insurance schemes do take some of the burden off it.

I'm just paying for a £250 consuktation privately as my GP put me to see a rheumatology nurse after being in agony for 16 weeks . Then I will have to wait another 18 weeks after nurse appt late Sept.

So my only way is to pay privately from own income for surgeon and op.

Yet others like cancer and diabetes, we are still a way behind USA. Only difference is the way we pay for our care...and we are still paying but just dont see it itemised on wage packets.

I've had good care on the whole from NHS. There is definitely a postcode lottery though. I suspect that if people are in London, major large tertiary care, training hospitals that they are happier with NHS than others.

GPs vary across the country. I've got one where if you need to be seen they guarantee you an appt on the day but its all. Assd upon a telephone system for 10,000 patients.

It is the plan to make single GP standalone practices a thing of the past. It will be that GPs have to sign up to a sort of hub system of 60,000 patients upwards in England. Join your PPG's to find out whats happening at your GP practice.

I think quietly things are being changed but the trouble is there is too many management and side shoots to NHS today like the CQC that doctors have to pay £6,000 upward annually for themselves to be able to treat patients and then be inspected. They are run as businesses with healthwatch, individual CCG's etc. There is no actual "National" any more its all split down into loads and loads of admin and management....

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The best thing about the NHS compared to medical insurance is that the cost to the consumer does not depend on risk. What are the chances of getting private medical insurance to cover you for a heart attack, at an affordable price, if you have had a heart attack before?
I had private healthcare paid for by my employer for many years without ever using it. At 64 it cost them about £600 a year, at 65 it jumped to £1,800 as I was deemed a bigger risk being older. So just when you need insurance you can't afford it.

SockFiddler said:

Which is almost enough to have me seguing into non-taxable Non-Dom status and then into Kensington and then onto Grenfell.

It's all a big mess, really.

Honestly, though, nurses and teachers. Two of the hardest, most demanding jobs and two of the least rewarded and most taken for granted. I hope I didn't give the impression that I'm anti-NHS. I'm completely pro-NHS, but blind love isn't going to fix what's urgently in need of mending.

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Completely agree. Funding per capita falling this year.