• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Nightmare diabetes appointment

Yes, thank you for asking. This was all from 7pm to 10.30pm Sunday night. I still went to work as usual Monday!!

Never going for chicken at a Chinese again though!!

I am so embarrassed and emailed our ambulance service to thank them and to offer apologies to the paramedics...... When I started to speak I was calling one of the paramedics "baldie"...... I would never do that to any person ever when I am fully conscious, never!! (He was bald though, shaved head from what I remember!!) and I kept on to the other chap about him putting on and taking off his glasses all the time. I also remember saying repeatedly "let me die, I've had enough of this" or "let me die, I don't want to live anymore, let me go"......

I just beg people to be aware that keeping your bloods low whilst on insulin can have massive unforeseen or unthought of consequences that you may never think of....

Thank you for asking. Much appreciated, and yes, no more Chinese ever!!
 
Scary experience DD, make sure you make a complaint to the restaurant involved and you might want to contact the food inspectors within your local council.
 
SOO glad you're OK DD
 
noblehead said:
Scary experience DD, make sure you make a complaint to the restaurant involved and you might want to contact the food inspectors within your local council.
Click to expand...

Can't be sure it was the Chinese... But hubby had same food as me 3 hours before and a different Chinese meal, so it's the likely reason. I only had to bolus so much because I felt really naughty for having such a rare treat.. I had also banana fritters!, pity they didn't stay down long enough to enjoy them!! Will contact council though....
 


I once ate a cheeseburger from a cafe that looked rather shabby, within the hour I was violently sick and I had a 90 min ride back home to contend with, food poisoning is horrible DD and it makes sense to contact the council if your sure it was the food to blame.
 
Hubby got gastroenteritis a while back now, GP told him that would have been from toilet handles, even doors when exiting the toilets after he had washed his hands, or from some sort of dirty water?? He collapsed 3 times with that...totally out cold.

Just wouldn't want to harm a chinese (so to speak) if I could have just picked something up!!!

Sorry for diverting the post.. Just wanted to warn people of my experience of keeping lower levels and what can happen unexpectantly!
 
I don't think people realise what that is like until it happens to them. I had it happen in Thailand and fortunately was able to keep down coke as I wax staying alone. Very unpleasant experience, and once you've suffered food poisoning and the consequences of an unfulfilled bolus, you are much more aware.
 
So glad you're OK DD - what a horrible experience.

I was very sick after bolusing a few weeks back and it's not a nice feeling. Fortunately for me, I keep Carbs low so only ever have small doses of insulin and was able to correct with sips of Coke. For me, it emphasises the importance of keeping doses small.

Smidge
 
noblehead said:
But dipping down into the 2's in a non-diabetic isn't dangerous Smidge in most cases, however with an insulin dependant diabetic with IOB there's no control over what might happen, that is why it is not encouraged and should be avoided.
Click to expand...

Yes, I certainly wasn't suggesting people do it, just giving a possible theory on loss of hypo awareness in those who do not suffer hypos.

Smidge
 

I too normally keep very low carbs but this was a one off..but sometimes one off situations can completely mess you up. It is so important that gels and injections are kept at home.. At least... Not possible to take for a one off situation in 30 years as a T1...

These things happen but by having low carbs constantly and very rarely having a chinese or eating out then it really just a warning to others that these things can happen and be prepared.
 
Ian DP said:
I don't follow. Surely an insulin pump stops hypos.... His BG level was under 2.0, but on an insulin pump.
Click to expand...
Ian,a pump is a mechanical aid, not an artificial pancreas.It allows finer adjustments but doesn't stop hypos if you have something that causes one.
(so exercise, wrongly calculated insulin, even stress can cause someone to go low.I had some very stressful phone calls the other night;my blood glucose rose and I went to bed with quite a high level for me. When I eventually got to sleep my libre suggests my glucose levels plummeted and I was technically hypos ie in the 3s for about 2 hours during the night. The pump won't stop that sort of thing, . I wouldn't have known that my slightly fuzzy head was probably caused by being too low without the Libre)

Edit,
@donnellysdogs
Just read your story DD. That was horrid, I'm so glad that you are OK now.
 
Re functioning well at lower levels ,something that came up elsewhere and something I know I noticed in the past and I'm not a low carber . In non diabetics there are a whole series of events which serve to warn and prevent of damaging hypoglycaemia . |For many of us the levels at which we perceive these symptoms is lower than that of non insulin taking people.
This article says that ,a current hypothesis is that people who have frequent hypos do indeed use alternative energy sources.(increased cerebral sources of glucose, ketones and lactate have all been suggested)
For example; People with diabetes and hypo unawareness have been found to have higher levels of lactate which the brain can use as a source of fuel. Lab animals also show adaptations of glucose transport during hypoglycaemia.
Brain adaptions/altered fuel, may indeed be what allows us to perceive better cognitive function at low levels and helps to prevent neuronal death.
The authors suggest that this is good in that cognition/brain function may be preserved during severe hypoglycaemia but
'Unfortunately, metabolic adaptations in patients with hypoglycemia unawareness that allow cognitive function at dangerously low blood sugar levels do so at the perilous risk of a precipitous hypoglycemic coma. Since limiting the awareness and symptoms of hypoglycemia jeopardizes patient safety, it must be considered a maladaptive response'
 

No quite right DD, if your not 100% sure then it would be wrong to point the finger of blame at the restaurant, anyway hope you are over the worst.
 

Or you are low carbing and don't have to (mis)manage the peaks and troughs?

I think if you follow the standard advice you will find it almost impossible to get sub 6.0% HbA1c's (as a Type 1) without concurrent hypos. If you ignore the standard advice on diet then you can achieve this.

Best

Dillinger
 

DD - I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, and I'm pleased you are now fine.

My comment relates to your anorexic friend. I'm sorry, but whilst she may be non-diabetic, she is certainly not operating in the usual non-diabetic space. She isn't someone who is a bit hungry because they've exercised hard or missed a meal and are therefore extremely hungry. She is someone who has systematically starved herself to a point of extreme malnutrition. He mind, sadly, will have been messed up by far more than her bloods running very low. She will have actually been or been on the verge of multiple major organ failure. That doesn't happen without impact on her mental capacity.

Undoubtedly non-diabetics lose some mental capacity as theygo very low. They say things like, "blimey, I need to eat. I can't concentrate, I'm so hungry".

And, of course, there are non-diabetics, perhaps even those with reactive hypoglycaemia who are regularly low. How they react will also differ from diabetics and normoglaycaemics.

DD - your anorexic friend has a long battle ahead of her to come back to living a relaxed and normal life, and to rebuild her relationships with food, and other people. Thankfully most anorexics recover to function well within society. Some have long term impacts, and some manage to shake it off altogether. I really do hope she is in the latter group. It must be an horrific time for her, her family and her wider circle.

But, she isn't your standard non-diabetic, by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Susiespearish said:
My consultant was involved in that trial .Hence his new advice to never go below 6 at any time .I already have heart problems
Click to expand...

From the link to that study it says that there is a correlation between hypos and cardiovascular risks.

Note that it is not saying that there is a correlation between low HbA1cs and cardiovascular risks.

Is it possible that the people having the hypos were also badly controlled diabetics with high HbA1cs? We know pretty much for certain that HbA1cs over 6.5% markedly increase your chance of heart disease - have a look at a summary of the DCCT which is incredibly specific.

It seems possible to me that like in the ACCORD study conclusions are being made that are not helpful to us as diabetics; if a low HbA1c were problematic then non-diabetics would be having heart attacks as a consequence and the DCCT would not show such a sharp rise in heart attacks with a rise in HbA1c.

No one wants hypos but I think the fixation with them could be a product of how badly the NHS in general deals with diabetes; you can fix a hypo pretty easily - so could it be beyond the realms of imagination that doctors go 'at last - something we can do something about' and get you to run high?

Common sense tells me that non-diabetic blood sugars are where we want to be; and the best way to get there is by ditching the carbs.

Best

Dillinger
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I share your reading of it Dillinger. Of course, subject to this being down to individuals to decide, in consultation with their doc, etc etc. I only wish docs were sufficiently au fait with the lit to be prepared to engage seriously with this. Not just trying to shush us, as many are.
 
Dillinger said:
I think if you follow the standard advice you will find it almost impossible to get sub 6.0% HbA1c's (as a Type 1) without concurrent hypos.
Click to expand...

I think Dr Bernstein would strongly disagree. He says the tighter the control the less likely you are of having hypos....,but his control guideline is tight.... Very tight.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Hi DD,

So glad you are OK! What a terrible experience.

But I'm a little confused. I've just read your posts, and my understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) is that you normally low carb, with presumably correspondingly small doses of insulin? And on Sunday, your experience was a high carb meal, with a larger than usual dose of insulin. Since the meal disagreed with you, it made you sick, so there was no expected rise in BG, and you hypoed. Leading to a horrifically frightening experience.

So while this is a valuable lesson to everyone who uses insulin, isn't it also a very good example of how eating low carb, with correspondingly low insulin doses, reduces the risk of this kind of terrible experience? It is one of Bernstein's recurring themes that small doses means small risk of error.

On a totally personal note, I hope you recover enough to at least enjoy some of your Xmas food over the next few days. I know how much you enjoy this time of year, and it would be a pity to be feeling awful through it all. That is if you can even contemplate the sight of food at the moment.
 
Ian DP said:
I think Dr Bernstein would strongly disagree. He says the tighter the control the less likely you are of having hypos....,but his control guideline is tight.... Very tight.
Click to expand...

Hi Ian; I think we are saying the same thing! When I say 'standard advice' I mean eating lots of carbohydrates - so I agree with Bernstein there. I find myself that any hypos are more gradual and less debilitating on a low carb diet. I have not needed assistance with a hypo for more than a decade, possibly longer.

Best

Dillinger
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn More.…