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No more insulin?

Vonnelene said:
I have never been over weight, though!
I weigh 82kg and probably weighed about 83kg when I was diagnosed.
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I am not over weight either, at 6' 3" on August 1st I was 84 KG. I still have diabetes.

What I am interested in is your weight loss (fat) If you have been training 8 hours a week for 3 years ? Then its likely you have put on muscle weight and lost fat. Has your physique changed ?
Professor Taylor talks about a fat threshold which applies to everyone, thin, slim, fat or obese. I am wondering if you have lost a good amount of weight (fat) that has been replaced with muscle weight. The fat Taylor talks about is visceral fat, particularly in the liver and pancreas.

Sorry for all the questions I am genuinely interested because I am trying to do the Newcastle diet with a view to reversing this diabetes.

My thread is here
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/peerless67-newcastle-diet.124417/
 
Hi @Peerless67
It's only since May this year that I've been training really hard 8 hours a week. I started training 3 years ago. At first, only 1 one hour session per week with a personal trainer, then added 1 or 2 sessions on my own in the gym, then 2 sessions per week with my PT, and started 3 sessions with my PT in September last year.
Then in May this year, I added 3 circuit classes and 1 HIIT Class per week.
My body fat % came down from around 21% to about 11% at present.
Hope this helps
 


Yes that is perfect, you have replaced 10% of your weight (fat) with muscle. I have no way of knowing for sure as I am not qualified to be certain but my guess is you are/were T2 and have reversed your condition with exercise instead of diet.
In any even congratulations to you, you have worked hard.
 
jamesfitz said:
I was diagnosed 25 months ago and my insulin requirements havent changed. Consultant said he knows of a case of a honeymoon pasting 8 years.
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Wow! Really? I did not know that. I was told a year or 2 maybe.
Would be interesting to see if mine is in fact just a VERY late honeymoon period. Will keep you posted
 
It's normal that after intense workouts insulin requirements go down significantly. Clearly, you still produce some insulin yourself which is great.

If you stop working out and eat carb loaded meals, will you still have BS in normal range?

I think the consensus on this forum is that injecting insulin should help extend the honeymoon period.
 
@Vonnelene, That is amazing, and you look fantastically fit! I have researched the man that reversed his diabetes, but haven't found any updated info. He too was a runner (as I am sure you know). I also run, but do not have an intensive work-out such as yours. I will be following your posts, as I am interested in what your c-peptide shows. Great job!
 

Hi @kimlala.
Thanks for that! My consultant is on annual leave for 2 weeks, so I won't have the results before then, but will keep you posted
 
@Vonnelene the result you have achieved is absolutely fantastic and I am of course insanely jealous (only joking about the jealous bit). You may never find out the complete process of how this has happened. If I were you then I would just enjoy it immensely. Your training regime seems like a real ballbuster. For this I commend you immensely. Your diabetic result however is miraculous and I hope it is a permanent.
 
As much as I want you to also have the miracle gene i think its much more likely to be a case of decreased insulin resistance, and increased metabolic rate.

Whenever you train hard, like you are, your body gets constantly working. Doctors estimate that physical excercise can affect BS for up to 48 hours afterwards. If you are really kicking ass in the gym almost daily, then i can totally see your lantus needs dropping. With this, you are likely to reduce insulin resistance.

I get 2 things from this that could be happening
1) your working out so hard that your body is just burning everything you put into it and your schedule is so frequent that the 48 hour window always contains more exercise so your sugars are staying low.
2) Your work outs have lowered your insulin resistance, and your body is still putting out some insulin, combine these with point 1 and your getting to a point where after long enough you can stabilize yourself.

That 10.2 after your meal would be enough to say you aren't totally cured - but youre certainly doing something that is making you like... almost cured ? lol

IF beta cells can be regenerated over time (some scientists believe this) and you do still have some, then it would be in your best interest to inject SOME insulin with meals to stay in the normal range, maybe after long enough staying in that normal range you will continue regenerating cells and the results will get better and better - or at least stick around longer!

or you have the same gene.. in which case i need some of your blood lol
 
@Diamattic, very interesting!

I haven't used any insulin since the 1st of August. I am still training every day for at least an hour.
When I started training, I noticed my BG going up quite a bit during training and then going down a few hours after.
I used to have a banana (slow acting carb) and a couple of units of insulin immediately before a workout, which worked a treat.
As I progressed with my training, my insulin requirements slowly came down. Lantus came down from 21 units a day to 11 units a day, however, skipping as little as 2 or 3 training sessions in a row caused higher morning BG levels and subsequently more Lantus. As my body got used to training more and more, I noticed that I could skip a week or even 2, before noticing a change in my morning BG.
Eventually my morning BG kept falling, until I stopped using Lantus in January this year, to prevent hypos during the day. I still needed the Novorapid 10:1 ratio when I ate carbs. Then eventually I stopped injecting Novorapid for breakfast (40g carbs), as by lunchtime, I was below 4. And also stopped injecting Novorapid for lunch ( banana, protein smoothie - +/- 30g of carbs).
Since middle July this year, I really took my training to another level, doing circuit training Mondays, Wednesdays, Friday mornings, Saturday mornings and seeing a personal trainer Tuesdays, Thursdays snd Friday evenings and doing cardio for an hour on Sundays and then 2 weeks later (1st August) I stopped using insulin completely. I basically still eat the same food, trying to avoid too many carbs, however, I have tested myself recently, having had a whole pizza, garlic bread, potato salad and a waffle with ice cream and my BG 2 hours after this meal was 10.2 and the next morning 5.7!
My morning BG is on average 5.5 and by lunch time it is normally between 4 and 5 and it seems as if it is coming down quicker after meals, on a daily basis!
So, the hospital has confirmed that I am making my own insulin again, (c-peptide test) but they cannot explain how and said they have never come across this before. They are now doing more tests......
So watch this space
 
@Vonnelene, I think this is fantastic. I believe (and have been researching autophagy, which happens during intensive work-outs). I believe there is a direct correlation linked with exercise. Keep it up, and I will keep waiting to read your progress!
 
@Vonnelene, That's great news, I'm so pleased for you. Interesting re your intense workout. I have been Type 1 for ten years and last year I started doing HIIT exercises and found that I needed to inject less overnight basal (I went from 10 units to 7). I also found that I only needed to exercise twice a week for this to have a continued effect. I have since swapped to using a kettlebell which works just as well. I assumed I had insulin resistance but after reading your experience it would be nice to think my beta cells are working a bit more. Maybe if I increased the exercise I would be injecting even less? I hate exercising though lol Looking forward to reading your updates.
 
They are now doing some more tests, but my consultant seems very certain about the fact that I am Type 1.
Also, it was a very fast onset (10 days) and my BG was over 45 and I had ketones in my urine.......
I was not over weight, my diet has always been pretty normal.
Then sudden weight loss (I lost about 3 kg within the 10 days, which I put back on after BG was stabilised) and even now, I don't weigh much less than when I was diagnosed. My body fat %, however, is much lower and I've obviously added some muscle with all the exercising.
All the signs and symptoms point to Type 1.
I'm having more blood tests tomorrow.
Will keep you posted!
 
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@Vonnelene
The 1st of August must have been a magical day
I too am in a very similar boat to you
Not as intense with exercise - but still more than people would consider typical - and my diet and exercise has been very regimented
I was diagnosed 1 year ago with type 1 after hospital admission with DKA
Have been off insulin since start of August - had been reducing for a while before that

My specialists are scratching their heads as well
It seems there may be some tricks to getting around this type 1 thing

It'd be very interesting to swap notes
I won't go on about my story and flood your post
But regardless, keep up the great work mate!
 
Hi @Paddy_nz

That is amazing! I'm so happy for you!
Not saying we've found a cure and also don't think it works for everybody, but I definitely think there is a direct link between my (and your) exercise regime and the fact that we don't need insulin anymore.
Also, I have a feeling that I may have to start using insulin again, when I stop exercising and I don't really want to do that, just yet. I think I may just test that at some point in the future.
I also read your post on when you were first diagnosed.
It all came back to me: The nausea, vomiting, no energy. It was horrible, but lucky for me, I got to hospital just before having DKA! I already had ketones in my urine and with a BG of more than 45, the doctor was very concerned.
It also took me about 3 months to start feeling myself again!
If I may ask, how old are you?
Anyway, keep training! And hopefully we're onto something here.
Long may it last!
(BTW, @x Carol x also experienced her long acting insulin coming down from 10 units to 7 units after starting weekly HIIT classes)
 
Very interesting! Granted, I am only 6 months diagnosed and am honeymooning, part of my low insulin requirements come from powerlifting training 10 hours every week. I don't take any long acting insulin because it kept causing me to slide into hypos by lunchtime with no novorapid on board.
 
@Vonnelene - thats awesome to hear man! Its really making me want go crazy in the gym, and get out running haha

I was diagnosed during my Adventure Race training (90km course of trekking, canoeing, and cycling) i was hopsitalized with DKA, and completed the race 2 months later in just under 8 hours, but that was while honeymooning, and my activity level has been constantly dropping

You story sounds like its worth the effort though! Keep us posted!
 
@Diamattic
That sounds crazy! And to complete the race only 2 months after being hospitalised with DKA is absolutely awesome!
Keep running!

Will keep you posted!
 
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