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Overworked and now under disciplinary
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<blockquote data-quote="Salvia" data-source="post: 1393352" data-attributes="member: 278312"><p>Questions: How were you expected to obtain new work whilst at the same time running two teams on a day to day basis. What time percentage is to be spent on getting new work. Where were you expected to find this new work from. What is the average lead time between losing a client and getting a new one up and running. For how long were some of the staff paid for hours not worked (& for which I assume the company received no fees from clients to cover their pay). How do these figures compare to those of other sections/team managers in a similar position.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Don't assume. Don't put words in their mouths. Don't make it easy for them. Ask them to <u>specify the charge and the failings in job performance that you are required to answer.</u> Anything less is not acceptable and is inherently unfair - why should you have to guess what they are alleging.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Executive - ok. What is the role of the manager from the other service within the company? If it is part of the panel, that manager is not objective and independent - they already have heard evidence and have reached a conclusion - that you are guilty. They cannot be unbiased, so your rep should argue that they should not be on the panel. If their role is to present the management case, then they should not be on the panel, but separate from it. By the way, the disciplinary panel should be more than one person, usually; the executive alone is not good practice. Perhaps ask your rep (TU or legal bod) to object to the service manager on the grounds that they have previous involvement and therefore cannot be independent.</p><p>If the HR officer is there for admin only, then that is pretty much an antiquated way of doing things, and not helpful to you or anyone else. But - they should ensure that you are treated fairly and have full information. If it is only a junior officer (not an HR Manager) then they could be there in little more than a secretarial role. In my day it was very much an executive role, and I was always most definitely a full member of any panel, with full voting and equitable status to anyone else present, and had a lot to say (as you might have guessed).</p><p></p><p>When disciplinary hearings are conducted, I would normally expect there to be a separate management rep to present the case against you to the disciplinary panel (usually would be whoever conducted the investigation).</p><p></p><p>The fact that you are head-office based is helpful in that they will know that you worked long and difficult hours. You will have to make much of the times you told you own manager of the difficulties of coping with the full range of the job and the stress this had on you and your home life, and the fact you brought those to the manager's attention. Carefully review the whole of the investigation process, and challenge any part of it that is not a "full and fair investigations into all aspects of the matter".</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Use that in your defence. Also to challenge the fairness of the investigation - I still think you're a scapegoat here.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Agreed. Clearly it is more difficult to manage people who are widely dispersed compared to those based in one place. Again, use that and ask questions of the management representative when they are putting their case forward to the disciplinary panel. Analyse what you did to manage you time. How did you split your days between the two teams, what rotas did you set up for them, for yourself. Lay it all out so you can see what you did and how you did it. Then at the disciplinary hearing, when it comes to your turn to question the management rep, your TU rep/legal bod can ask them what is wrong with your work methods, how you could have done it differently, what else did they expect you to do, etc. etc.</p><p></p><p>Be honest with yourself -could you have done more, or were you just too exhausted to summon the energy to do so. If the latter, then they have responsibility under health & safety at work laws - again, your TU rep or legal bod could use this to good advantage. At the very least, a warning and further training should be on the cards, rather than dismissal. This is, after all, a first offence.</p><p></p><p>At the end of the day - I'd tell them to stuff it, and ****** off anyway. Frankly, an outfit not worth working for - but - you may need a reference in the future, so (something) may be the better part of valour. (can't remember the word <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll Eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" />)</p><p></p><p>ps - sorry about the length, once I start can't seem to stop. it's 1.05am so I'm off to bed now. Reflect on all this lot and come up with your plan. Good luck & All the best.</p><p></p><p>Edited to clarify quotes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Salvia, post: 1393352, member: 278312"] Questions: How were you expected to obtain new work whilst at the same time running two teams on a day to day basis. What time percentage is to be spent on getting new work. Where were you expected to find this new work from. What is the average lead time between losing a client and getting a new one up and running. For how long were some of the staff paid for hours not worked (& for which I assume the company received no fees from clients to cover their pay). How do these figures compare to those of other sections/team managers in a similar position. Don't assume. Don't put words in their mouths. Don't make it easy for them. Ask them to [U]specify the charge and the failings in job performance that you are required to answer.[/U] Anything less is not acceptable and is inherently unfair - why should you have to guess what they are alleging. Executive - ok. What is the role of the manager from the other service within the company? If it is part of the panel, that manager is not objective and independent - they already have heard evidence and have reached a conclusion - that you are guilty. They cannot be unbiased, so your rep should argue that they should not be on the panel. If their role is to present the management case, then they should not be on the panel, but separate from it. By the way, the disciplinary panel should be more than one person, usually; the executive alone is not good practice. Perhaps ask your rep (TU or legal bod) to object to the service manager on the grounds that they have previous involvement and therefore cannot be independent. If the HR officer is there for admin only, then that is pretty much an antiquated way of doing things, and not helpful to you or anyone else. But - they should ensure that you are treated fairly and have full information. If it is only a junior officer (not an HR Manager) then they could be there in little more than a secretarial role. In my day it was very much an executive role, and I was always most definitely a full member of any panel, with full voting and equitable status to anyone else present, and had a lot to say (as you might have guessed). When disciplinary hearings are conducted, I would normally expect there to be a separate management rep to present the case against you to the disciplinary panel (usually would be whoever conducted the investigation). The fact that you are head-office based is helpful in that they will know that you worked long and difficult hours. You will have to make much of the times you told you own manager of the difficulties of coping with the full range of the job and the stress this had on you and your home life, and the fact you brought those to the manager's attention. Carefully review the whole of the investigation process, and challenge any part of it that is not a "full and fair investigations into all aspects of the matter". Use that in your defence. Also to challenge the fairness of the investigation - I still think you're a scapegoat here. Agreed. Clearly it is more difficult to manage people who are widely dispersed compared to those based in one place. Again, use that and ask questions of the management representative when they are putting their case forward to the disciplinary panel. Analyse what you did to manage you time. How did you split your days between the two teams, what rotas did you set up for them, for yourself. Lay it all out so you can see what you did and how you did it. Then at the disciplinary hearing, when it comes to your turn to question the management rep, your TU rep/legal bod can ask them what is wrong with your work methods, how you could have done it differently, what else did they expect you to do, etc. etc. Be honest with yourself -could you have done more, or were you just too exhausted to summon the energy to do so. If the latter, then they have responsibility under health & safety at work laws - again, your TU rep or legal bod could use this to good advantage. At the very least, a warning and further training should be on the cards, rather than dismissal. This is, after all, a first offence. At the end of the day - I'd tell them to stuff it, and ****** off anyway. Frankly, an outfit not worth working for - but - you may need a reference in the future, so (something) may be the better part of valour. (can't remember the word :rolleyes:) ps - sorry about the length, once I start can't seem to stop. it's 1.05am so I'm off to bed now. Reflect on all this lot and come up with your plan. Good luck & All the best. Edited to clarify quotes. [/QUOTE]
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