@satlyseas it could be that you just didnt do it for long enough and hadn't removed the fatty liver. Did you reach the magic 15% weight loss? Prof Taylor speaks about it and interestingly my numbers (BG and BP) all tightened up and decreased stepwise at around this point. That is why I always have said it isnt an eight week prescribed programme. Just because his experiment was over eight weeks doesn't mean it will take that long. Also please bear in mind that low carb raises insulin resistance (by design) so that produced glucose is utilized by those cells that absolutely need it. The majority of your cells will be fat burning.
Have a read of this thread where I did some experimentation on carb increasing and found my fasting and HbA1c went down
edit
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/moving-from-low-carb-to-higher-levels.58491/
The other area I looked into was the 'milk and yoghurt' diet the pre-weight loss surgery patients formally all go on "to shrink the liver to make it small and soft to allow the surgery to be carried out via a keyhole incision'. I wondered if there's something in milk, or the whey protein of the Optifast and other generic diet shakes that helps the liver/pancreas lose fat. Any takers???
Oh well - only another 60llbs to go to get to a healthy BMI!! It would just make the dieting easier in the ****FBG reading would stay low!
Milk, whey, yogurt and cottage cheese are all insulinogenic if you look at th Insulin Index.
A
And that's a good thing, isn't it?? If you have milk protein with (or as) a meal you should have an enhanced increase in your insulin at the same time - so this should help lower postprandial glucose spikes? Interesting ... Wondered if this helped those Newcastle Dieters get such good blood glucose readings after just 1 week of diet?
Am I missing something here? It doesn't sound like anyone is following the ND: 600 calories a day of an Optifast drink and 250g of cooked non starch veggies ( no dairy, fish, meats legumes or poultry ) for 8-weeks.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk/Services/A-Z/DiabetesService/PatientsCarers/Documents/SJH%20NEWCASTLE%20DIET%20BOOKLET2012.pdf
I'm starting my 3rd week, following the diet as well as I can. Eating a bit more veggies some days. The next weeks I'm going to follow the ND Protocol to the letter
My insulin dosage has fallen to between 2 to 4 units a day. My waking BG is 85 to 91 and some days. My back which has been horrible the last 8-months is bearable mostly.
I think the key is to follow the protocol like one was following a recipe
As for protien remember that up to 60% can be converted to glucose.
Am I missing something here? It doesn't sound like anyone is following the ND: 600 calories a day of an Optifast drink and 250g of cooked non starch veggies ( no dairy, fish, meats legumes or poultry ) for 8-weeks.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.nhslothian.scot.nhs.uk/Services/A-Z/DiabetesService/PatientsCarers/Documents/SJH%20NEWCASTLE%20DIET%20BOOKLET2012.pdf
I'm starting my 3rd week, following the diet as well as I can. Eating a bit more veggies some days. The next weeks I'm going to follow the ND Protocol to the letter
My insulin dosage has fallen to between 2 to 4 units a day. My waking BG is 85 to 91 and some days. My back which has been horrible the last 8-months is bearable mostly.
I think the key is to follow the protocol like one was following a recipe
As for protien remember that up to 60% can be converted to glucose.
Am I missing something here? It doesn't sound like anyone is following the ND: 600 calories a day of an Optifast drink and 250g of cooked non starch veggies ( no dairy, fish, meats legumes or poultry ) for 8-weeks.
https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...ents/SJH%20NEWCASTLE%20DIET%20BOOKLET2012.pdf
I'm starting my 3rd week, following the diet as well as I can. Eating a bit more veggies some days. The next weeks I'm going to follow the ND Protocol to the letter
My insulin dosage has fallen to between 2 to 4 units a day. My waking BG is 85 to 91 and some days. My back which has been horrible the last 8-months is bearable mostly.
I think the key is to follow the protocol like one was following a recipe
As for protien remember that up to 60% can be converted to glucose.
Hi Runner2009,
Thats fantastic you've stuck with it for 3 weeks and brilliant that you are at 85 - 91 mg/dl (that's the equivalent of 4.7 - 5 mmol/l I think).
Thx but I am only starting the 3rd week. It has been tough for sure - I'm always thinking about food. I am like the dogs sniffing and licking the kitchen floor for any crumbs of nourishment.
To me this disease is so complex and so many permutations - especially when you factor in the individual genetic differences, the many variations of the disease and where one is on the illness.
I'm supposed to be a T1.5 - and my primary insulin release is small if at all, but I am sure I have a secondary release.
The best I've ever done ( with controlling weight and BG ) was eating a consistent carb diet, no meats, dairy or oils.
I ate about 30g or carbs at each meal - adjusting some types based upon BG. My snacks were popcorn and Edamame Hummus and veggies.
I controlled my snacks, especially my night time cravings. Oh and no pints at all. I also started lifting like a fiend adjusting my exercise around my insulin injections and for an old guy I put on a bunch of muscle.
Then I met a new GF, and I started going back to normal eating but focusing on LCHF following Dr. Bernstein. And of course drinking some Stouts ( which I found actually lowered my BG - so of course I over indulged ).
My diet increased in fat especially cheese and when I hurt my back, my exercise stopped and the weight came back and so did my insulin requirements ( but not as much as I had expected ).
My weight comes right back to fat around my internal organs - its amazing; am I a bear?
I was surprised in that I didn't lose that much muscle mass, just strength.
IMO, I think the HF part of the LC diet is very dangerous - because if you are like myself and have poor portion control you can really pack on the calories - with popcorn or veggies it is a different story.
If you look at and talk to Dr. Bernstein, you can see that even for a man in his mid 80s, he has a lot of muscle ( he works out with weights and a recumbent bike daily. But also, he is super skinny - on the low side of the BMI - and he eats like a bird.
I honestly don't know what is wrong with me, but I can go for almost a whole day without eating with no problems, but when I start to eat, I just love those high fat, hid density foods and I can eat like crazy.
One of my kids is like that too, another isn't. From the reading I've done this is supposed to be an adaptive trait for survival back in the day of feast or famine.
IMO, I am not so sure that how much carbs and fat and protein one eats is so much the point as is the total amount of calories.
Many of us are on the high end of the BMI scale especially when compared to our Grandparents.
I believe that the official estimates of our base calorie requirements are too high and the amount of calories they say we need is on average way to high.
I've gone on a diet where I'm measuring, weighing and journaling my food intake and not exercising and I'm amazed at how little food I have to eat to start losing weight - those of us on LC diets don't have the initial water weight lose.
If I go for a run and use my phone or fitbit to monitor, the amount of calories it says I've burned can't be right - its always too high.
The point is that for a middle age to older person - both men and woman - to be on the lower end to middle of the BMI I think that daily calorie range is on average under 1,400 calories. That's less than 500 calories per meal with some small snacks.
Women average calories without gaining weight is like 2,000 and men 2,500. Of course there is a big variability but ... I've been dieting and plateaued for weeks, and slowly cut daily calories back by 25 calories a day - I can be OCD - and then all of a sudden I start to lose again.
There is no way one can eat very much high density carbs or meats and dairy on a diet of under 1,400 calories. A wedge of cheese, a handful of nuts, a slice of toast or cake, a piece of fruit, 1/4 cup of lentils and your done. At that calorie level if you are trying to be balanced you can't eat too much more than 45g of carbs ( 3 servings which is considered a low carb diet ).
On the other hand a veggie soup, multiple cups of cooked veggies and squash and you are below target.
The funny thing, that now that I am on this diet, I feel better in the morning, my back still hurts but not as bad ( maybe all the cabbage is creating anti-inflammation ) and what is so wild is that my average heart rate through out the day has dropped about 10 beats - slowing metabolism?
On a side note about Whey protein, I was under the impression that Whey protein ( or many super fine grounded proteins ) cause a GPL-1 insulin response ( coming from the gut ) and this is one of the reasons Whey shakes are used by body builders after a strenuous work out.
I tried it and it did work for me for awhile and then stopped working .... who the heck knows.
One last thing here is a MD that came down with adult onset and he is eating a LCHF diet and managing too on 1 or 2 units a day.
If you look at him, he like Dr. Bernstein can not eat that many calories. I am sure that I am not saying anything new, as people have quoted that the head of the NC study says that we should be at the low end of ones BMI.
For me, this controlling the amount I eat is a constant struggle; it is like one day at a time.
PS
Right now I am 80 or 4.4 before my big 200 calorie lunch and I've taken no insulin for the last two days - Oh and I am starving too.
At the end of a real food Newcastle Diet (ND), my HBA1c was 40, with a BMI of 22.8. I was lean. I had to carry a pillow around to sit on hard surfaces comfortably.
After a month's holiday with increased carbs but not calories, and way less exercise, my BMI went back to the pre-ND level of 24 (high end of normal weight), and had gained 3 cm on both my hips and waist (I think as an indicator of fat on the liver is as interesting if not more so than a bmi.) I was 'normal weight'.
The month after the holiday, my blood glucose levels got way out of control fast, with pretty high Fasting Blood Glucose readings, again, and my HBA1c was 44 before I knew it. (A good 'don't do as I have done' post ND story indeed!)
I began by having a target of getting as lean as just after the ND, in order to get good blood glucose control again. After a while, I decided I didn't want what was the pain and misery for me of going low calorie. So I concentrated on muscle gain, which I prefer to hunger, big time. And on going low-carb (25g-50g a day) which I realised, when I started counting carbs, that I had never done before. Even when low calorie dieting. And on trying out different kinds of intermittent fasting regimens instead of going low calorie. It has taken me five months to get back down to the HBA1c of 40 that I was my lowest post the Newcastle diet, on this new LCHF modified paleo, weight lifting, periodic fasting etc regimen. But I am not lean. (Thank goodness. I way prefer not having to carry a pillow around!) I have only lost 1 cm off my hips and waist at the end of the 5 months, but I am a lot musclier. And my bmi is is 23.9.
Different paths to blood cell, liver and pancreas health?
I share my experience with you because I do still think there is a lot to the Personal Fat Threshold theory. It makes a lot of sense as being a main driver of T2D (as in fat on the liver mucking everything up). But being and keeping really lean may not be for everyone! It may be really hard to maintain for many. (It is for me.) I prefer to be normal weight, but muscley. And do the odd fast. I certainly find it easier than to keep up being lean. Same HBA1c. Happier life. Different paths to the same thing...
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