Post Newcastle Diet blood glucose increase.

[Indy51]

After all, the subjects in Roy Taylor's trial did not end up at normal BMI and yet 3 out of the 10 passed OGTT 3 months after the trial ended!

Those don't sound like the greatest odds to me

I think I'm one of the ones with a very low PFT and am starting to have 'boney butt' syndrome as well - it's not much fun.

 

[Saltyseas]

Those don't sound like the greatest odds to me

I think I'm one of the ones with a very low PFT and am starting to have 'boney butt' syndrome as well - it's not much fun.

Oh I agree - the odds are poor - and I also wonder if those 3 are still 'cured' now, 4 years later? But I thought I'd give it another try this time following ND protocol - even if it doesn't work this (2nd) time at least I will be creeping nearer my PFT but still a long way off a normal BMI so I can only hope!

I'm finding sticking to ND protocol sooooo hard, really hungry right now and I've already had my shakes and steamed spinach this evening. Oh how I miss 'real food'!!
(lost 4.5 lbs so far and FBG this morning 4.9 - but dreaming of chips!)

How are you getting on @runner2009?

Anyone else doing ND before Xmas?

 

[SunnyExpat]

So,
not ending up at normal BMI and yet 3 out of the 10 passed OGTT 3 months after the trial ended, seems like bad odds?

I would possibly not entirely agree, a 30% chance to reverse diabetes, and it's not worth a shot?

I reckon I would go if I had any chance at all, but maybe I'm different to others.

 

[Saltyseas]

So,
not ending up at normal BMI and yet 3 out of the 10 passed OGTT 3 months after the trial ended, seems like bad odds?

I would possibly not entirely agree, a 30% chance to reverse diabetes, and it's not worth a shot?

I reckon I would go if I had any chance at all, but maybe I'm different to others.

Yes - and if it doesn't work at least it's an inch or two nearer a healthier me !

 

[SunnyExpat]

Yes - and if it doesn't work at least it's an inch or two nearer a healthier me !

I agree entirely, there can't be any downside to re-educating your eating habits to simply eat less.

 

[runner2009]

Oh I agree - the odds are poor - and I also wonder if those 3 are still 'cured' now, 4 years later? But I thought I'd give it another try this time following ND protocol - even if it doesn't work this (2nd) time at least I will be creeping nearer my PFT but still a long way off a normal BMI so I can only hope!

I'm finding sticking to ND protocol sooooo hard, really hungry right now and I've already had my shakes and steamed spinach this evening. Oh how I miss 'real food'!!
(lost 4.5 lbs so far and FBG this morning 4.9 - but dreaming of chips!)

How are you getting on @runner2009?

Anyone else doing ND before Xmas?

I'm halfway through my 3rd week and I am surprised how not difficult it is sometimes and then it is crazy hard I feel like if I took a nibble of a cake I'd eat the whole thing.

I woke up with BG 4.0 no insulin for 24hours so that is great. But heck I ate only 750 calories. Wonder what a DIY glucose tolerance test will show?

I think my primary insulin response is gone and I do have a secondary but if I eat a lot protien it gets overloaded.

Honestly, I don't believe there is a cure - can't grow beta cells that are dead, but by weight lose and other - who knows what they are - you can reduce the demands on your pancreas and have a remission of sorts. They really don't know .

What are my goals? Losing 45 to 55lbs and get to a 22 BMI, go back to controlled eating and eat more % of carbs and less fat.

So that means popcorn instead of cheese. Not eliminating fat but relying on it much less.

My most successful time with weight and BG was eating about 90g of carbs a day - mostly veggies and no cheeses or meats or chicken or oil and only fish and nuts and olives - and no pints!!!

How much have I lost? I don't know. I'm doing the "try on skinny cloths method" and actually I can see a difference around my face butt and shoulders. Stomach a little not so much.

I feel dizzed out at work a bit and when I get hungry I drink coffee and try and plan what post NC diet will be.

Hope all you are surviving.

 

[Saltyseas]

I'm halfway through my 3rd week and I am surprised how not difficult it is sometimes and then it is crazy hard I feel like if I took a nibble of a cake I'd eat the whole thing.

I woke up with BG 4.0 no insulin for 24hours so that is great. But heck I ate only 750 calories. Wonder what a DIY glucose tolerance test will show?

I think my primary insulin response is gone and I do have a secondary but if I eat a lot protien it gets overloaded.

Honestly, I don't believe there is a cure - can't grow beta cells that are dead, but by weight lose and other - who knows what they are - you can reduce the demands on your pancreas and have a remission of sorts. They really don't know .

What are my goals? Losing 45 to 55lbs and get to a 22 BMI, go back to controlled eating and eat more % of carbs and less fat.

So that means popcorn instead of cheese. Not eliminating fat but relying on it much less.

My most successful time with weight and BG was eating about 90g of carbs a day - mostly veggies and no cheeses or meats or chicken or oil and only fish and nuts and olives - and no pints!!!

How much have I lost? I don't know. I'm doing the "try on skinny cloths method" and actually I can see a difference around my face butt and shoulders. Stomach a little not so much.

I feel dizzed out at work a bit and when I get hungry I drink coffee and try and plan what post NC diet will be.

Hope all you are surviving.

Great FBG!

Post ND I'm looking forward to steak and cheese - and I'm really missing my walnuts. Will be finished by Xmas so will have to be very careful about portion control!!!

 

[Saltyseas]

I thought I would keep anyone interested with updates whilst I'm following the Newcastle Diet protocol (600kcal shakes, 200kcal green leafy veg) just to keep me motivated.

It's day 10 today, FBG 4.8 mmol/l this morning before work [I would put in a very happy face here if I knew how to do it!] and another 1.5 lbs lost (that's 6lbs in 10 days). But finding this diet very, very difficult to follow compared to the deviated ND before. Especially with OH and kids eating apple pie!

I was on 4x500mg metformin before the first ND in June and reduced down to 2x500mg. But I started taking 3 again in August as my FBG were getting high again following that first ND. My GP (who had never heard of the Newcastle Diet) is very supportive of any diet and was keen on me maintaining the metformin and ramapril but I would love to eventually be drug free - but i'll have to see what he says when I see him in December.

Oh well back to work - and a fuzzy head!

 

[Brunneria]

Hi @Saltyseas and @runner2009

Just a quick suggestion, if you want to have a feeling of satiety on the ND, without adding extra calories.

Try using a teasp of psyllium husks (lots of fibre, very few calories) to your shakes and/or hot drinks. it takes a few minutes, but the husks swell to form a filling milk shake consistency, and gives a pleasant feeling of fullness.

The added fibre is also welcome on a VLC diet! Just introduce the husks slowly, over a few days, or you could have a, um, shocking increase in toilet action.

Hope this helps.

 

[Celeriac]

I think everyone attempting the Newcastle Diet is a hero, I just couldn't starve myself like that.

I am a bit confused as to why people do it though. Weight loss, yes. But besides that ?

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

I think everyone attempting the Newcastle Diet is a hero, I just couldn't starve myself like that.

I am a bit confused as to why people do it though. Weight loss, yes. But besides that ?

To cure their diabetes

 

[Saltyseas]

Exactly!
Always been happy at my larger weight as !'m not into fashion and all that blah. But when it comes to the thought that I might not be around for my kids when they (might) need me in the future frightens the h**l out of me!!

 

[Brunneria]

To cure their diabetes

To reverse their T2 diabetes, for an unknown length of time, provided that their T2 diabetes was caused by a fatty liver, and that fatty liver is de-fattified by weight loss on the ND and that the fatty liver does not re-develop over time due to a change in personal fat threshold.

The word 'cure' is rather misleading, in the circumstances.

 

[Saltyseas]

@Celeriac and @Brunneria - I know it's a long shot - but others have 'cured' their diabetes on this forum and can now eat carbs without a a massive glucose spike. It may not work with this ND but I can only hope! And pin my hopes to the fact that there might be some truth in Roy Taylor's statement that "There is now no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound decrease in food intake".

 

[Saltyseas]

ps. Many thanks for the psyllium husks idea - Ill try that out tonight x

 

[Brunneria]

@Celeriac and @Brunneria - I know it's a long shot - but others have 'cured' their diabetes on this forum and can now eat carbs without a a massive glucose spike. It may not work with this ND but I can only hope! And pin my hopes to the fact that there might be some truth in Roy Taylor's statement that "There is now no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound decrease in food intake".

Yes, but the key thing is his use of the word 'reversal' rather than 'cure'.

There is definitely truth that, within the contraints of the ND methodology, a good percentage of the participants achieved that reversal. But it makes me very twitchy when people claim more. Especially without long term followups to check what happened to those participants in later years.

 

[Celeriac]

Ah. Thanks Brunneria. I had abnormal liver enzymes when diagnosed, but not badly so. In 2012 I went organic and 2 weeks into that, my already scheduled LFT came back normal and has stayed that way. I don't know if it's doing better because it doesn't have to handle so many chemicals, (and alcohol only rarely) or whether the weight loss on LCHF has cleared most of the fat out.

Therefore I have no idea if this would work for me. The very last thing I want to do is put my body into starvation mode and regain weight.

 

[Brunneria]

Ah. Thanks Brunneria. I had abnormal liver enzymes when diagnosed, but not badly so. In 2012 I went organic and 2 weeks into that, my already scheduled LFT came back normal and has stayed that way. I don't know if it's doing better because it doesn't have to handle so many chemicals, (and alcohol only rarely) or whether the weight loss on LCHF has cleared most of the fat out.

Therefore I have no idea if this would work for me. The very last thing I want to do is put my body into starvation mode and regain weight.

I feel very similar. My liver enzymes are fine. My Triglycerides are 0.9.
These both suggest no fatty liver.
Of course, it would take a scan to know for sure.

But past experience of very low cal diets has taught me to be very wary. Thrifty gene, and so on. Plus, I am 99% certain that my T2 is nothing to do with a fatty liver, and those test results support my certainty.

So I applaud people who take the ND on, and push through the psychological and physical barriers, and I really wish them every success, but I also try to be the voice of reason, whenever that 'cure' word gets bandied around.

 

[Pipp]

@Celeriac and @Brunneria - I know it's a long shot - but others have 'cured' their diabetes on this forum and can now eat carbs without a a massive glucose spike. It may not work with this ND but I can only hope! And pin my hopes to the fact that there might be some truth in Roy Taylor's statement that "There is now no doubt that this reversal of diabetes depends upon the sudden and profound decrease in food intake".

As a Newcastle Diet / Taylor convert of some 4 years, I have managed, thus far, to maintain non-diabetic blood glucose. I am able to eat carbs without a massive spike in BG. I have regained some weight though, and what I am seeing is average BG readings rising from 5.6 to 6.4 recently. This sets alarm bells ringing.
I believe the interpretation of the Taylor 'reversal' statement is often misunderstood. By following the Newcastle diet methodology it is possible for some T2s to attain non-diabetic BG levels through elimination of liver fat. What Prof Taylor calls going below personal fat threshold. If you raise that fat threshold again then the higher BG levels return. Anyone expecting to follow Newcastle diet for a short term then return to eating as they previously did, and regaining weight, is deluded if they think they are cured.
The 'reversal' Prof Taylor talks about is not a one way process. It needs to be recognised that the reversal can also be reversed.

 

[Saltyseas]

Thats great @Pipp I totally agree it needs a lifestyle change as well. I was just using the term 'cured' and I don't ever expect to be completely free of diabetes - if it does work I'll obviously be vary cautious in the future and keep an eye on my BGs.

If this horribly strict ND does work this time it will mean my BGs will go back to a normal range quickly [which so far they have done ] and stay low - rather than me waiting to reach my PFT which looks a long way away with my current BMI using a LCHF diet (which I did start to following my last deviated ND in the summer - but my FBG went up!!).

I do intend to keep to a LCHF diet when I'm finished this beastly ND as I believe sugar is a poison! and I want my kids to hopefully pick up better habits than I had growing up.