Primal and Carbs?

An arbitrary number is irrelevant. It depends largely on circulating insulin levels. If they are high then mobilising stored energy will be difficult.

PS. Welcome!

EDIT: and well done on progress so far.

Have a read of this.... whether diabetic or not, this is a great write up and provides good info on diet imo. The person who wrote it is also a member here and is always willing to help out if you have a specific question.

Just click the red link below... nutrional thingy

Rottielover said:

Hi all, new here

I am pre diabetic. I was told last year and am having another blood check at the end of this month so hopefully my blood is normal.

When i got the news i was 20st. Im now 15st and have lost 5st so far thanks to the primal lifestyle ( im not looking at this as a diet, this is my new eating way, i look at as im going to eat this way for life)

I still have another 5 stone to go to be a healthy weight for my age and height. ( Dr told me 10-12 stone is a healthy weight for me) i want to get back to 10st as that what i use to be.

My question is on carbs on the primal website mark says that for weight loss that you can have upto 100g of carbs a day. The thing is i have stayed lower then this at first as my personal trainer advised i stay lower around no more than 80g of carbs a day ( when i was bigger) now im half way through my weight loss journey my trainer said i coukd now go up to what mark says on his site but still reccomended to stay a lottle lower at 90g of carbs a day. I worried if i might not loose weight if i up it to 90g? He says thats still low enough to loose weight.

Iv calculated what i ate last week. Keep in mind i eat whole foods , i dont eat takaways, i dont eat processed junk food. I eat only real healthy foods and stick to the diet 95% of the time. The 5% thats not primal is my oat milk i drink ( im allergic to dairy and most nuts) iv tried all plant based milks but oatly is the only one i like.

Some days im below 90g and others im only just over. But i have never reached 100g like it says on the primal site.

Is it ok to go slightly over 90g and still loose weight?

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Hi @Rottielover ,

Weight gain is a symptom of (pre-) diabetes. You've gained weight because you have a problem processing carbs. So while losing weight will in all likelihood help when it comes to insulin resistance, it is just a perk, a happy side-effect that comes with excellent blood sugars... The main goal should be getting your blood sugars under control, and preventing becoming a full fledged diabetic. And since all carbs turn to glucose once ingested... The less carbs, the better it'll be. I'm at 20 grams per day or less at the moment, but then, I was quite diabetic with complications and whatnot by the time I started the low carb lifestyle. (And you're right, what you're doing involves lifestyle, not a diet which seems more temporary in nature. This is a for-life thing, and I'm glad you don't seem daunted by that. )

So, what do you do? How do you work out how many carbs you can tolerate? Test before a meal and 2 hours after the first bite. You don't want to see a rise of more than 2.0 mmol/l. Anything under that means your meal was good... Higher, and it was carbier than you could handle. (Mind you, oat milk will spike quicker because it is liquid... Use it sparingly!) We're all different, and while for some 90 grams of carbs a day is fine, for others, like me, it is far, far too much. It's a very personal thing. So invest in a meter. It won't try to sell you on any nutritional dogma, won't ask you to subscribe to something, it'll just tell you what's working for you.
Good luck!
Jo

You will have your own carb tolerance level so the only way to find out is to see if you continue losing weight. If you stall consider eating less carb. Hopefully your trainer is getting you to build muscle too as this will help your metabolism to by lowering the level of insulin (fat storage hormone) you need.
Whatever you do don't be tempted to cut down on fat or protein!
Well done and my dog Thanos says hello to your dog who is getting a much fitter owner.

Rottielover said:

I dont know if its just my phone but the link is not showing?

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This was behind the link.
The Nutritional Thingy

There’s a few things you should know.

1. Practically all carbs turn to glucose once ingested, so not just straight sugars, but starches too. Food doesn’t have to taste sweet to make your blood sugars skyrocket.

2. A meter helps you know what foods agree with you, and which don’t. Test before and 2 hours after the first bite. If you go up more than 2.0 mmol/l, the meal was carbier than you could handle. (It’s easy to remember, as you’re a T2: all 2’s, all over the place!)

3. In case you didn’t know already, this isn’t your fault. It’s genetics, medication, decades of bad dietary advice, and basically all manner of things, but nothing you can actually blame yourself for.

4. Diabetes T2 is a progressive condition, unless you (also) change your diet. So you have options. Diet-only, diet with medication, or medication only. But that last option will most likely mean more medication over the years. (And there is more than just metformin, so if it doesn’t agree with you, there’s lots of others to try). So even if going really low carb isn’t for you, you might consider moderately low carb an option, with meds to assist.

5. Are you overweight? 90% of T2’s are. Yeah, that means 10% are slim and always were.* If you did gain weight, it was the precursor of this metabolic condition. We make loads of insulin, but become insensitive to it. So carbs we eat turn to glucose, and normally, insulin helps us burn that glucose for fuel. When it doesn’t, that glucose is stored in fat cells instead. When those fat stores are full, the glucose remains in our bloodstream, overflowing, into our eyes, tears, urine, saliva… And then we’re T2’s. So weight gain is a symptom, not a cause. This also means that “regular” dietary advice doesn’t work for us. The problem lies in our inability to process carbs. And most diets focus on lowering fats and upping carb intake. Which is the direct opposite of what a T2, or prediabetic, for that matter, needs.

6. There are 3 macro-nutrients. Fats, protein and carbohydrates. Those macro’s mean we get the micro-nutrients we need: that would be vitamins and minerals. So… If you ditch the carbs, you should up another macro-nutrient to compensate, to make sure you don’t get malnourished or vitamin deficient. Carbs make our blood sugars rise. Protein too, but nowhere near as bad as carbs do, so they’re alright in moderation. Fats however… Fats are as good as a glucose-flatline. Better yet, they’ll mitigate the effects of any carbs we do ingest, slowing down their uptake and thus the sugar-spike. Contrary to what we’ve been told for decades; fats are our friends.

7. Worried about cholesterol? On a low carb diet, your cholesterol may rise a little as you start to lose weight. That’s a good thing though. (Believe it or not). What was already there, stored in your body, is starting to head for the exit, and for that it’ll go into your bloodstream first. So when you have lost weight and it stabilises, so will your cholesterol. And it’ll probably be lower than what it was before you started out.

8. You’ll lose weight on a low carb diet. Weight loss will help with your insulin-resistance, and not only that… Going low carb might help with other issues as well, like non-alcoholic fatty liver disease and depression.

9. Always ask for your test results. You don’t know where you’re going, if you don’t know where you’ve been.

10. Last, but certainly not least: If you are on medication that has hypoglycemia listed as a side-effect, like Gliclazide for instance, do NOT attempt a LCHF diet without a meter nor your doctors’ knowledge/assistance. You can drop blood glucose levels too far, too fast, if your dosage isn’t adjusted accordingly. This could mean a lower dose in stages or even stopping medication completely. Never do this without discussing it with your doctor first!


So what raises blood sugars? Aside from the obvious (sugar), starches raise blood glucose too. So bread, and anything made with grain/oats flour, rice, potatoes, pasta, corn, cereals (including all the “healthy choices”, like Weetabix and muesli), most beans and most fruits. So you’ll want to limit your intake, or scratch them altogether.

Which food items remain on the shopping list? Well, meat, fish, poultry, above ground veggies/leafy greens, eggs, cheese, heavy cream, full fat Greek yoghurt, full fat milk, extra dark chocolate (85% Lindt’s is great!), avocado, (whole) tomatoes, berries, olives, nuts, that sort of thing… Meal ideas? Have a couple:

Scrambled eggs with bacon, cheese, mushrooms, tomato, maybe some high meat content sausages?
Eggs with ham, bacon and cheese
Omelet with spinach and/or smoked salmon
Omelet with cream, cinnamon, with some berries and coconut shavings
Full fat Greek yoghurt with nuts and berries
Leafy green salad with a can of tuna (oil, not brine!), mayonnaise, capers, olives and avocado
Leafy green salad with (warmed goat's) cheese and bacon, maybe a nice vinaigrette?
Meat, fish or poultry with veggies. I usually go for cauliflower rice or broccoli rice, with cheese and bacon to bulk it up. Never the same meal twice in a row because of various herbs/spices.

Snacks? Pork scratchings, cheese, olives, extra dark chocolate, nuts.

Of course, there’s loads more on the web, for people more adventurous than I. (Which is pretty much everyone). Just google whatever you want to make and add “keto” to it, and you’ll get a low carb version. There’s a lot of recipes on the diabetes.co.uk website, as well as on www.dietdoctor.com where you’ll also find visual (carb content) guides and videos. And I can wholeheartedly endorse Dr. Jason Fung’s book The Diabetes Code. It’ll help you understand what’s going on in your body and how to tackle it, whilst not being a dry read. Not only that, but you’ll know what to ask your doctor, and you’ll understand the answers, which is, I believe, quite convenient.

*If you can't afford to lose weight, do NOT go for Intermittent Fasting/One Meal A Day. Sticking with three meals a day, 3 snacks a day, all low carb, high fat, moderate protein, should keep your weight up to par while keeping your bloodsugars in check.

Rottielover said:

I dont know if its just my phone but the link is not showing?

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If you turn your phone sideways you should be able to see the signatures under members' posts

Rottielover said:

Thanks , that worked, i can see the link

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Luckily, @JoKalsbeek came to the rescue anyway.

Rottielover said:

Thank you so much for that. Interesting read. Luckily i dont eat a lot of starchy foods. I prefer low starchy veg like swede , courgette. Instead of potatoes i eat butternut squash on sundays with my sunday lunch. My breakfast is more or less carb free. I often eat a breakfast bowl. Eggs, bacon, spinach, avocado and cherry tomatoes ( i have 3 tomatoes) lunch i often eat either homade chicken broth with leaft greens or a salmon salad. And dinner , i always have a non starchy veg and meat or fish. Last night i had a homade curry but instead of rice i had cauliflower rice.

It was my trainer who told me all about starches. He said that my body wont know the difference between a mars bar and a potato or sliceof bread its all carbs and all carbs turn to sugar in the body.

I also am not a huge fruit lover and only like berries.

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Sounds like you're well on your way already then! Excellent!

Rottielover said:

Can i ask , do any of you eat honeydew melon?

Iv seen it on a lot of low carb and keto lists as a good low carb fruit. It would make a nice change from eating only berries. Im not fond of fruit i only pike berries, honeydew and black grapes. But grapes are to high sugar and carb.

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...I don't do melon, but I'm really low carb... So it entirely depends. A melon's rather big through, you'd need to keep it to thin slices for it to not become too much, I suppose.
....The time for fresh strawberries with cream is nigh though. https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/fruits <-- and that might help. Just keep in mind that if you go for fruit, to have something fatty with it. Slows down the sugar spike.

Your trainer knows more than most GP's, dieticians and nurses. That's a rare breed. You've got a good one there!

Rottielover said:

Thanks my trainer told me to always have fat with anything sugar to slow it down.

I mainly dont eat fruit anyway. I prefer if im craving something sweet to have dark chocolate. Either lidt 85% or green and blacks. Both are low carb.

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Rottielover said:

He trained in america. He was the one who reccomended primal but a low carb version for now. Hes been great for advice. Hes been in nutrition and exercise for over 30yrs.

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Sounds like a really good trainer. He could put a lot of HCP's to shame with his dietary knowledge. That's an incredibly good thing to have on your side.