Hi,
I am very curious to hear opinions comparing two methods of caloric restriction aiming for diabetes remission
1. The "New Castle diet", 8 week very low calorie diet, throughly discussed in these forums, versus
2. The Valter Longo approach of periodic fasting
If you have tried either one, what are your thoughts?
Here are some scientific references, for the inclined to read those:
1. New Castle initial study. See "cited in ..." to the side to get an update of further research.
2. Longo's mimicking diet. See "cited in ..." to the side to get an update of further research.
Hi, I am very curious to hear opinions comparing two methods of caloric restriction aiming for diabetes remission...
More recent research supports that you need more than 3 days of consecutive 'fasting' for major autophagy to occur. Alternate day fasting may have once been the best known option, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.The biggest difference between intermittent fasting and the Newcastle diet is that with intermittent fasting you have two phases fasting and feasting (end of fast). The combination of these two phases helps the body to repair itself by a process called autophagy. See https://www.dietdoctor.com/renew-body-fasting-autophagy
There was an interesting documentary on fasting by the BBC by Michael Moseley called "Eat, Fast and Live Longer" See ...
What Michael realised was that fasting alternate days was more effective than a continuous fast. However, if you are dramatically overweight the 8 week low calorie program may help shift much of the visceral fat around the liver and pancreas. Michael Mosley supports a 8 week 800 calorie diet and 5:2 intermittent fasting on his website www.thebloodsugardiet.com
I've have almost completed my 3rd cycle of Longo's Fasting Mimicking Diet - finishing up the refeed portion.
Honestly, this time my results have me to say the least a bit stunned - I woke up this morning with a fasting BG of 7.1mg/dl
In the past, I had tried the DIY Newcastle approach and failed miserably.
History: I've been a insulin dependent T2 for 4-years with both T1 and T2 antibodies.
Looking back I was best controlled when I was able to exercise - weights / running hiking - and eating a strict diet of no more than 2 servings of carbs at any meal - 30g or <90g a day. Along with low dairy, no cheeses and limited meats.
Over the years, two things changed; I hurt my back which seriously limited my vigorous exercise and I started to follow Dr. Bernstein's protocol.
With Dr. B's protocol I was able to maintain my BG levels in the normal range. My diet switched to higher proteins and saturated fats - lots of cheese.
Because of my back I relied less on exercise to keep my BG in check and my insulin requirements began to increase.
I believed in Dr. B's the law of small numbers when it comes to insulin - but over time my daily insulin requirements went to 20u to 30u a day.
I gained about 15lbs - mostly around my waist and loss muscle mass from not being able to lift regularly.
Because of the increase in insulin requirements, I tried metformin to see if this would help. I was using 2,000mg of long acting metformin a day - half in the morning and the other half late at night.
The metformin seemed to have little if any impact on my BG or insulin use.
Late, last year I ran across Dr. Longo's Fasting Mimicking Diet and his diet for Longevity - basically a modified Mediterranean with only fish and limited amounts of dairy and 0.31g to 0.37g of protein per pound of body weight a day.
His FMD and mice studies reminded me of the Newcastle protocol.
Late last year I started to to change over to his overall diet and start the 5-day / 25-day fasting cycle.
This last cycle I did a 10-day fast.
My observations are purely antidotal and I used only a food scale, MyNetDiary, 6 to 8 BG readings a day, urine ketone strips, tape measure and scale.
During the fast, I had to stop using insulin.
I became hypo unaware maybe because of the ketones?
I ate no more than 800c a day, no dairy or meats and kept my protein to 9% or less - around 9g a day.
Refeeding I ate only his moderated Mediterranean diet.
After each fast my base BG would rise but my insulin requirements dropped dramatically
After the first fast, subsequent fast were easier and I believe I could do 30-days without much trouble.
Amazingly my body weight did not drop dramatically and I've lost about 10lbs total.
Most of the weight is around my stomach as indicated by the tape measure.
The cycling vs the Newcastle approach fit me better since I was able to adjust my thinking during the refeeding stages to be more mindful about eating during the fasting portion
Honestly I was not that hungry and some days I could get by on <400c
Today, I've been 10-days no insulin and metaformin. I am not sure what's going on and latter this week I will do a glucose tolerance test.
Outside of the controversy of whether my beta cells have regenerated or repaired themselves, this is what I am thinking:
1. There is no doubt I've lost weight around my vitals
2. The lower protein has had an effect on my BG without seemingly to effect my strength.
3. The lack of animal fats and proteins have enable me to eat more denser carbs without impacting my BG as before.
4. If I was going to do the Newcastle fast, I would follow FMD protocol to get through the 3-months.
Lastly, over the years after querying Dr. Ornish, Dr. Bernstein and other nutritionist, I've come to believe that the standard BMR for most of us is way to high and the >2,000c daily amount will cause the majority of us to gain weight.
After doing this fasts and not becoming emaciated I am questioning whether the VLC diets of 1,200 to 1,600c are in fact normal diets for many of us.
If you are going to try this protocol - be aware that you can become hypo unaware - I hit 43mg/dl and had no clue. I would think about curtailing all insulin lowering meds during the fasting stage. Usually I can tell when I am hypo - on this fast I could not.
What does Dr. Taylor say about this in the Newcastle studies?
This stood out for me in your statement... what are the Type 2 antibodies?History: I've been a insulin dependent T2 for 4-years with both T1 and T2 antibodies.
@bulkbiker - Honestly, I might have miswritten here. I was in ICU for over 5-days with an infection in my intestines and diabetic ketoacidosis. When I was in a regular ward the diabetic MD told that I had antibodies for T1 and she could have said antibodies or indications of T2 also. Further, if I recall correctly, she said that in her opinion most adult diabetes is a combination of both.
Over the years I thought of following up with her statement, but I never did.
I definitely have some functioning beta cells - as shown from my glucose tolerance test. I suppose I could get further testing. I was told later that perhaps I was T 1.5
According to Dr. Bernstein if you are treated with insulin early on this helps some of the beta cells from burning out and helps with the decline. I was glad for whatever reason to be on insulin. I've also found insulin a very useful tool with diet/exercise to keeping my BG A1C between 4.8 - 5.4
My philosophy has always been to keep my BG as normal as possible with whatever works the best - insulin, diet, exercise, or combinations.
It has only been recently that my insulin requirements have gone up. This seems to be partly due to my increasingly higher saturated fat diet along with more animal proteins and increased weight around my trunk - but I don't know.
This is a very complicated disease and it seems the diagnosis - especially with T2 - into broad of a category.
Congratulations on how well controlled you are
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