Reversal or remission - your thoughts

I have managed to get my levels down into the pre-diabetic area purely through low carb dieting and being very strict (ok..not so strict coz croissants are lovely), and my specialist says that I am "effectively in remission"...by which he means keeping things as they are has the same impact as though I were in remission. Of course I am NOT. I have Type 2 diabetes as a result of steroid treatment following a transplant...it having had nothing at all to do with my lifestyle, and I have no doubt at all that should I up my carb intake my blood sugar will go up accordingly. I actually now view the whole thing as a carbohydrate intolerance and expect to have to maintain my approach...otherwise, miraculously, I shall find myself oddly..diabetic again! Anyone who says anything else is either selling something or just plain wrong. It is absolutely manageable, but until lovely advanced aliens get here...it is not curable.

There is no such thing as a former gambler. There is no such thing as a former drug addict. There is no such thing as a former alcoholic; and there is no such thing as a former diabetic. They are just have not done the one thing that hurts them in a long time. In our case, that is carb loading. But, like the first 3, diabetics can be very nice people.

I do not believe that diabetes. can be cured at this time but I do believe that remission can be attained.

Neither term (remission or reversal) equates to being the same as cure. (Thesaurus, anyone?) If you follow the NHS dogma that diabetes is a progressive disease, then being able to step back in terms of reducing or ceasing medication is indeed a reversal of that progress, but as pointed out above, it is not a cure.
I have myself reduced my medication and taken my bgl levels back to almost Normal Range, but I get reminders now and again that the bad old days can easily return. Just the other day I accidentally forgot to tke any of my meds, and my bgl post prandial rise was 0.3mmol/l, and fell by 1.6 at 4hr PP. So my body is obviously producing some insulin. However, the next day I had elevated bgl, so my 'remission' was short lived. I still need meds, and I do not believe that either term represents any pemanent change. Yet.

"Type 2 Diabetes Remission Without Surgery Does Happen—But Very Rarely"
http://www.diabetes.org/research-an...ss-to-research/type-2-diabetes-remission.html

World diabetes experts says...

The American Diabetes Association (ADA) defines "remission" as having test results below the range for diabetes without taking diabetes medicines or having surgery. "Partial remission" means your test results have been lower than the range for diabetes (fasting blood glucose 100–125 mg/dL or A1C 5.7–6.4 percent) for at least 1 year. "Complete remission" means your results have been in the normal range (fasting blood glucose less than 100 mg/dL or A1C -

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And this is how rare it is...

Can a healthy lifestyle help people with type 2 diabetes to go into remission without bariatric surgery? Yes, although it’s rare in the real world, researchers found when they analyzed data from 122,781 adults enrolled in a health care delivery system. Seven years post-diagnosis, only 140 of them had ever achieved complete remission, defined as having an A1C (a measure of overall glucose control) of less than 5.7 percent on at least two visits without taking any diabetes medications. Only 6 people maintained remission for five years straight. Remission rates were higher for people diagnosed more recently and for those not put on diabetes medications or needing only oral diabetes medications at the time they were diagnosed.
Source:Diabetes Care, published online Sept. 17, 2014

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http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2015/jan-feb/remission-rare-possible-type-2-diabetes.html

There is no known cure for type 2 diabetes. But it can be controlled. And in some cases, it goes into remission.

For some people, a diabetes-healthy lifestyle is enough to control their blood sugar levels. That means losing weight if you are overweight, eating healthy foods, and being more active. But most people with type 2 diabetes also need to take one or more medicines or insulin.

Well, I've pretty much had 3 monthly HbA1c tests since diagnosis. My first, 4 months post-diagnosis, came back at 37 (5.5%) and moderated down slightly further since. My stats are in my profile.

I'm hoping I can continue to report maintaining my turnaround (whatever you want to call it) for many years to come. I have never taken any medication.

There are several on this forum with similar results, with folks like @andcol showing even better results than me.

Personally, I don't care if we call it cure, reversal, remission or Doris. It's only a name. What I want is to keep my good health and live a fruitful life for a long time to come. I can't see much point is stressing or rowing over a name, it only raises tension, but doesn't influence how our pancreas works or how we approach our diet.

I have been removed from my practise Diabetes Register, but as someone remaining "At Risk", I will continue to have HbA1cs at least annually. I have also had 2 retinopathy screenings since I was removed from the register, so would say my preventive care is continuing. Thanks, good old NHS.

I've managed to keep my diabetes at low "pre-diabetic" levels for almost two years now mainly by eating a very low LCHF diet. Like @pleinster I too believe that I'm carbohydrate intolerant and have no doubts that if I started eating more carbs again that my glucose levels would go back up. My GP has told me I'm well controlled, and I think that, realistically, that's all I can ever be now.

I've suffered all my life from chronic migraines, which I can control by medication and watching what I eat. I may go for months sometimes without getting one, but I know for certain that if I scoff enough food that triggers them then I'll get one. And I treat my diabetes exactly the same way: it can be controlled by avoiding high carbohydrate foods but it's still lurking there....

I accept that there are some people, like our own Andrew Colvin, who may be able to go back to eating "normal carbs" and their bodies are able behave like non-diabetics' again, but I think in general people who believe they're cured because they've reduced their glucose levels down to normal may well be living in a fools paradise. We need, though, to have confirmation from them that they have maintained these results after going back onto on a higher carb diet long term, not just that they've achieved their levels on a lower carb regime.

Robbity

AndBreathe said:

Well, I've pretty much had 3 monthly HbA1c tests since diagnosis. My first, 4 months post-diagnosis, came back at 37 (5.5%) and moderated down slightly further since. My stats are in my profile.

I'm hoping I can continue to report maintaining my turnaround (whatever you want to call it) for many years to come. I have never taken any medication.

There are several on this forum with similar results, with folks like @andcol showing even better results than me.

Personally, I don't care if we call it cure, reversal, remission or Doris. It's only a name. What I want is to keep my good health and live a fruitful life for a long time to come. I can't see much point is stressing or rowing over a name, it only raises tension, but doesn't influence how our pancreas works or how we approach our diet.

I have been removed from my practise Diabetes Register, but as someone remaining "At Risk", I will continue to have HbA1cs at least annually. I have also had 2 retinopathy screenings since I was removed from the register, so would say my preventive care is continuing. Thanks, good old NHS.

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I wonder how many using this forum would be counted as "in remission" using the quotes from @kokhongw as least 2 of the mods and a lot more I would suspect,

Over the Bank Holiday weekend, for a particular reason, I conducted a small experiment. Basically, through following a Low Carb Lifestyle my FBGs have consistently been in the upper 4s / lower 5s for a couple of months. I increased my Carbohydrate intake on Friday to just under 100g and on Saturday to over 200g. My fasting blood glucose level rose through 5.6 to 6.2 (28th am had been 5.2). I then cut back the carbs down to 36.7g during Monday after which my FBG reading was 4.7 yesterday and 4.8 this morning.

The FBG of 6.2 was accompanied by a weight rise of .5 kg, followed by a loss of .4kg yesterday and .3kg this morning, back to my target weight immediately I returned to the Low Carb Lifestyle. All this proves to me that Diabetes can only be managed and as others have said you can call it what you like, but the careful management of the condition is what keeps it under control. I am not on meds, just diet and exercise, following what I learned from the Low Carb Program (I lost over 14kg in 4 months) which I enthusiastically recommend to T2s.

@Hiitsme from the Telegraph report...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/31/low-carb-diet-helps-control-diabetes-new-study-suggests/

More than 70 per cent of participants experienced improvements of blood glucose, and a fifth said they no longer needed drugs to regulate blood glucose by the end of the ten-week plan.

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Would be great if someone can verify that quote

My T2D is under my control but it's neither in remission nor reversed and certainly not cured.


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kokhongw said:

@Hiitsme from the Telegraph report...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/31/low-carb-diet-helps-control-diabetes-new-study-suggests/


Would be great if someone can verify that quote

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This sounds like it may be the Newcastle Diet, in which case the should be a formal report since it was an official study.

Edit to Add: http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal.htm

Also :
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/documents/VerylowcaloriedietS.Stevenetal.pdf

nannoo_bird said:

I have been quite surprised to see many doctors, authors, journalists and others refer to those diabetics who have managed to control their BG levels as having REVERSED their diabetes. Now, I would love to hear from anyone with .more knowledge than me, but I understood that if you were diagnosed with diabetes, that was it for life. You could go into remission, but you could not reverse it. We will always have the ability to send our BGs through the roof if we start eating too many carbs again, unlike a non-diabetic. So we will always be diabetics, but hopefully in permanent remission!

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While I like to think that my Pre-D can be cured, I think the best I can hope for is remission. For me, it is just "semantics" when trying to determine the difference. If my diet and lifestyle choices can keep my BS's normal for the foreseeable future, that's good enough for me. If you think you are " cured" try eating a big bowl of pasta w/ ice cream for dessert & test your PP BS.

britishpub said:

My T2D is under my control but it's neither in remission nor reversed and certainly not cured.


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Agree with @britishpub I know I will always be a diabetic, if I go back to a rubbish diet my BG will be crazy. But a good diet, regular exercise and my diabetes is under control - and life is good.

The British GPs will use the term "Resolved", and one kind community member photographed their medical file and uploaded it to the forum for us to see the use of this term.

I have no doubt however that should we revert to type, the said resolved status will be but like a vapour


Diagnosed 13 April 16: T2, no meds, HbA1c 53, FBG 12.6, Trigs 3.6, HDL .75, LDL 4.0, BP 169/95, weight 13st 8lbs, (2012 - 17st 7lbs, waist 42") waist 34".

2 June 16: FBG AV 4.6, Trigs 1.5, HDL 2.0, LDL 3.0, BP 120/72, weight 11st 11lbs, (2012 - 17st 7lbs, waist 42") waist 30".

Never give in, never give in, never never never given in...Winston Churchill.

Sent from my iPhone3 June16:

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My blood sugars stay in the normal range now, even eating higher carbs... but if I start eating to the gov eat well plate advice I know my blood sugars will rise. I was pre diabetic for a few years .. my blood sugars did not rise, until my dr decided that I was now T2 and ordered to eat to the nice guidelines ... I did as ordered and guess what .. by changing my diet I was able to go from a 5.7 to 23 reading in three months ... well done to my dr .. he made me fell so unwell I thought I was going to die.. so I went back to my normal way of eating after a little spell of carbs reduced to 20g a day... now I can eat what I want again.
I don't know if I am in remission or fully T2 with a diet that is and was for years normal for me not impacting on my sugar levels. (But I will never ever trust a Dr again)