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<blockquote data-quote="AloeSvea" data-source="post: 1860721" data-attributes="member: 150927"><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I love [USER=196898]@Oldvatr[/USER]'s "I regard ND et al as another tool in the toolbox that we can use. "</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Absolutely!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">As a multiple experimenter and avid reader of the research, with very very stubborn adipose tissue/insulin receptors/liver cells (my own bias to theories in relation to my own blood test results over time is I do not actually include beta cells), I think it obvious that all methods to getting better with insulin resistant/fatty liver based type two at least, be on the table. And truly terrific that we have this platform to discuss all these tools the way we do in this forum.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">I also loved [USER=113206]@NoCrbs4Me[/USER]'s questions -</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">"1. Is it really excess calories that causes excess fat in the liver, or is it excess sugar and starch?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">2. Doesn't a starvation diet mess up your metabolism?</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">3. Does the Newcastle diet work better than a low carb diet for reversing type 2?"</span></p><p></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">My thoughts on Q1. - In terms of treatment - advocacy of longterm "portion control" is just plain cruel! Permanent hunger? Horrible! Marvellous that I don't agree with 'calories in, calories out' theory or that it is excess calories that cause excess fat in the liver. I endure periods of hunger to try and improve my health, but could not imagine it as a permanent state. I am gobsmacked by medical professionals and so on that do advocate permanent calorie restriction (ie not enough energy from food to function well! Especially in the name of keeping saturated fat or meat eating low) (ghastly!) for those of us with T2D. But I realise experience of hunger is very personal and differs enormously between different people with different body types and so on.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">And for me - Q.2 - In all likelihood Very Low Calorie Diets do muck up one's metabolism, especially reading and watching Fung on this. But so does blood glucose dysregulation, especially for those of us who cannot kick it in a clean and short-period way. And the mess up is not permanent, I would venture. And, those like me with 'normal' weight after being on keto/LCHF longterm, longterm no-food fasting could be a big mess up of metabolism also, (certainly on one's ability to function as normally as possible while on a dietary treatment, ) and for some of us our blood glucose dysregulation only responds to 'extreme' treatments. (ie semi starvation of some kind, whether it be no-food fasting, or Very Low Calorie Diets - of whatever kind - for a longish period.) </span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">My two cents worth of common sense - do the extreme treatment that works best for you personally! Mucks up your life and your body the least with the best results? I have feet in both the Fung and the Taylor camps in this for sure.</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'">Q.3.- Different tools for different types of bodies, lifestyles, and ways of eating. All in the spirit of N=1, experimentation, discussion of personal results, contributing to the different theories of the cause of T2D. yay for the forum!</span></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Arial'"></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AloeSvea, post: 1860721, member: 150927"] [FONT=Arial]I love [USER=196898]@Oldvatr[/USER]'s "I regard ND et al as another tool in the toolbox that we can use. " Absolutely! As a multiple experimenter and avid reader of the research, with very very stubborn adipose tissue/insulin receptors/liver cells (my own bias to theories in relation to my own blood test results over time is I do not actually include beta cells), I think it obvious that all methods to getting better with insulin resistant/fatty liver based type two at least, be on the table. And truly terrific that we have this platform to discuss all these tools the way we do in this forum. I also loved [USER=113206]@NoCrbs4Me[/USER]'s questions - "1. Is it really excess calories that causes excess fat in the liver, or is it excess sugar and starch? 2. Doesn't a starvation diet mess up your metabolism? 3. Does the Newcastle diet work better than a low carb diet for reversing type 2?"[/FONT] [FONT=Arial]My thoughts on Q1. - In terms of treatment - advocacy of longterm "portion control" is just plain cruel! Permanent hunger? Horrible! Marvellous that I don't agree with 'calories in, calories out' theory or that it is excess calories that cause excess fat in the liver. I endure periods of hunger to try and improve my health, but could not imagine it as a permanent state. I am gobsmacked by medical professionals and so on that do advocate permanent calorie restriction (ie not enough energy from food to function well! Especially in the name of keeping saturated fat or meat eating low) (ghastly!) for those of us with T2D. But I realise experience of hunger is very personal and differs enormously between different people with different body types and so on. And for me - Q.2 - In all likelihood Very Low Calorie Diets do muck up one's metabolism, especially reading and watching Fung on this. But so does blood glucose dysregulation, especially for those of us who cannot kick it in a clean and short-period way. And the mess up is not permanent, I would venture. And, those like me with 'normal' weight after being on keto/LCHF longterm, longterm no-food fasting could be a big mess up of metabolism also, (certainly on one's ability to function as normally as possible while on a dietary treatment, ) and for some of us our blood glucose dysregulation only responds to 'extreme' treatments. (ie semi starvation of some kind, whether it be no-food fasting, or Very Low Calorie Diets - of whatever kind - for a longish period.) My two cents worth of common sense - do the extreme treatment that works best for you personally! Mucks up your life and your body the least with the best results? I have feet in both the Fung and the Taylor camps in this for sure. Q.3.- Different tools for different types of bodies, lifestyles, and ways of eating. All in the spirit of N=1, experimentation, discussion of personal results, contributing to the different theories of the cause of T2D. yay for the forum! [/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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