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Rising sugars

D

David Wass

Well-Known Member
Messages
63
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Every morning my sugars rise even though i have been flat all through the night in fact from when i got to bed to when i wake up it has dropped by 1.5 to 2 as in from 7 to 5 and so on but when i get out of bed my sugar levels rise to doubles sometimes. This seems to heca problem for me 6 out if 7 days a week. When i take a correction dose it does then stay flat ish once its kicked in. I have done testing during the night so i know my background is working fine plus tests in between meals which are ok. Help please!!!
 
The rise is known as Dawn Phenomenon, and is the liver doing a glucose dump to kick the body into action from resting.
 
What @delmcp has said. @David Wass Dawn Phenomenon is usually enough to get you put on to a pump to resolve the issue. As you have a ton of data from the Libre demoing this, I'd have a discussion with your diabetic team about it.
 
Many of us have to eat something even if it's just a hard boiled egg or a few nuts to stop this.
A few weeks ago I was doing an experiment backing up my bolus to find out when my insulin starts working at breakfast as I always get a spike around two hours. So I injected my normal bolus and tested every 10 min. By the time I finally ate because it wasn't coming down I had injected 3 extra times in 3 hours. Now I just eat something small with no carbs 15-20 min after I bolus and then I test after 2.5 hours and if I need a small correction bolus I take one and then the rest of the day is fine. The problem I have is 1/2 unit correction away from food drops me 30-40 so I can't always take one. Or I take one but eat something so I don't drop as much.

I have heard on this forum that a few people keep some nuts on their head board and eat them before they get out of bed.
 

Could you clarify a little on this? Surely most people get up and have breakfast immediately? Are you suggesting eating something pre-breakfast?
 
That's what I've read. Some people eat something before their feet hit the floor. I don't but I do eat 15-20 min after my bolus. I get up, co e down stairs, test, inject and wait my 20 min. I found it very odd that I need less insulin if I eat than if I don't.
Figuring out mornings and BF seem to be the hardest for most of us. Our hormones are waking up and raising us and then we need to eat to shut that down but then our food is raising us. My BF is by far the smallest meal of the day and the only carb is a small piece of Bibb lettuce. The rest is fat and a small amount of protein. It's still not perfect but the best I've found. Most of us are most insulin resistant in the morning. I take the same amount of insulin with all meals but even with BF being the smallest I often need a small correction a few hours later. Lunch and dinner I eat 3x the food and stay steady. I also can't just bolus bigger at one time or I go low then pop way up.

Does that help?
 
Thanks.

I'm aware that I have a dawn effect. Took quite some time before I found a breakfast that worked for me and I also tend to inject a little while before eating it.

I wasn't so familiar with the concept of having some nuts (or similar) first thing. This counteracts the dawn effect in some way then?
 
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I don't do it so I'm not sure. Maybe it works better for T2? I need insulin for all food. It's on the DP thread. What BF do you eat? Just curious. Are you low carb high fat? I do know NOT eating makes it worse for me. I had to inject a days worth in 3 hours before I ate and then it started coming back down. Wasn't a good day
For BF I either have half an avocado with celery or a lettuce wrap with mustard mayo and a thin slice of deli turkey. I still get about a 20--30 point spike around 2 hours. As I said I can't bolus more at the beginning or a dip low and spike even higher so I need to split it. I imagine it's cortisol and food and it can't cover it all but as they both rise I need the additional bolus
 
Yes, for breakfast I discovered that it has to be low carb. I have a smoothie that contains significant amounts of peanut butter and avocado. There are some carbs in there from the milk and some berries but overall the fats dominate. When I used to have more carb-based breakfasts I could take enough insulin to make sure that I would be fine two hours later but then I would have to eat something or I'd crash.

I have injected before when not having breakfast but it's so rare that I skip it that I don't have much of a sense of the exact consequences. The idea of not eating making it worse is interesting though. Another oddity of diabetes.
 
Your smoothie sounds yummy!
I just eat a very small BF but I also eat avocado with every meal. It seems to bridge the gap between insulin and bs timing. Keeps everything low and slow. I can't eat carbs and get bs right. I do the same, either spike and drop or the opposite. This is where I found avocado at BF very friendly. I eat less than 20 c per day and I stay flat all day as long as I get BF right. I eat the same BF everyday and get different results everyday but still somewhat predictable. There is no perfect bs that stops a spike for me but keeping it low and slow is the best I can do.

I know, not eating you would think would make it better. I know @azure found this too. It's like insulin is water. Given that I would prefer to eat as well. I look forward to all my meals.

Diabetes has so many oddities doesn't it?
 
I'm a fan of the smoothie but others disagree!

That's great to be able to stay flat all day as long as breakfast goes well. I have found that my blood sugars have a tendency to do their own thing during the day even if I don''t eat at all. Not sure if my body thinks it's dawn again some time in the afternoon. Avocados are great though.
 
Do you work out? Totally raises me.

Just a side note, love nuts and nut butters and though they don't raise me much they do STOP me from coming down. Just something to think about.
 
I have scrambled egg and fried mushrooms most mornings and automatically inject 10 units before bf or my bg would just keep rising all morning. I sometimes have to do a correction dose 2 hours later if Im busy at work. I have stretches through the day and night where bg is stable so Im sure the background insulin is fine but the mornings are the worse. I set my alarm and give 2 units at 5am to help stop the rise too. Some days I give 10 injections a day including the 2 Levemir. I have an appointment on 3rd Oct to hopefully get a pump. Does anyone else give 9 to 10 injections a day?
 
Kristin251 said:
Do you work out? Totally raises me.

Just a side note, love nuts and nut butters and though they don't raise me much they do STOP me from coming down. Just something to think about.
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Working out will normally raise me a bit. I tend to creep up during the day regardless of this though. I think I just can't get a LAntus dose that suits me perfectly at night and in the day. May be pumping soon.

I've noticed the same thing with nuts. Nice to know it wasn't just my imagination!


Sounds like this has similarities to me. Having to wake at 5 is a real pain though. I don't normally need that many injections but sometimes it does get up there. Sounds like a pump would suit you (although I don't know that much about them myself).
 

Good to know the nut thing wasn't my imagination either! I used to snack on them between at noon as I eat BF at 7-8 and don't eat lunch until 3. If I skip the nuts I come back down. Now I just have some veggies and dip.

My lantus doesn't cover me during the day either and taking more at night makes me hypo. Taking it during the day causes all day hypos and way too much eating. I just use my bolus during the day. I test after BF and if I have room ( high enough) to take a 1/2 unit correction I do but it drops me 30-40 if if don't eat. So if I need to I'll have a small snack and it will lower me about 20. Pretty scientific huh? Lol
 

APPLE CIDER VINEGAR! I swear this is a life saver; my husband researched for overnight skyrocketing BG and told me to have 1/2 tbsp stirred of ACV into water before bed and I kid you not from day one of doing this my morning readings have been within range without fail. And better yet, it's pretty cheap at about £1 a bottle from most supermarkets and will last me approx 1/2 months.

Hope this helps! Let me know your results if you try it x
 


Hmm. Never heard of this one before!
 
Neither had I - it's recommended for type 2 really but it worked for me as type 1
 
I don't like ACV but I do have some lettuce with mustard mayo dressing before bed and I know vinegar (in the mustard ) helps with fastings
 
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