So-called "dawn phenonmenon"

What I found in the past from testing was that once my BG comes back down after my supper my BG doesn't rise until just before dawn

My blood sugars are levelish all night. I know because I've tested. I've got up and sat on the couch and within 20 minutes normally before and after a shower, my bloods can go from 5 to 9. I actually bolus for a shower, never mind food or coffee.
This affect continues until 11.30ish to 12 no matter what I do.


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Oh aye. The science and maths needed to deal with diabetes is hard enough then throw in a touch of the black arts and that's a normal diabetes day. At least that's how I feel.


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Mrs Vimes said:

My blood sugars are levelish all night. I know because I've tested. I've got up and sat on the couch and within 20 minutes normally before and after a shower, my bloods can go from 5 to 9. I actually bolus for a shower, never mind food or coffee.
This affect continues until 11.30ish to 12 no matter what I do.


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And me. Although I'm not on any meds, my blood sugar will start to rise as soon as I get up. If I don't eat breakfast , it continues to rise to between 7 and 8, as if I have had breakfast, then come back down again (usually over the course of the morning). If I have an omelette for breakfast, that brings me down nice and quick - very strange.
It's all a bit awkward to be honest, I'm still getting the hang of it

juliekem said:

Hi - I keep reading about this - I too seem to get higher blood glucose readings in the morning than the night before (I buy my own test strips and test at least twice a day.) One night I couldn't sleep so did a bg reading every time I went to the bathroom - I found that my blood glucose went up gradually all night - there was no "liver dump" in the early hours!!! I asked my GP about this and was told that it was normal - the dawn phenomenon is mis-called because people test first thing in the morning (and not several times in the night like I did.) Has anyone else tried testing like this? I would be interested to find out if my GP is correct (I haven't a lot of faith in her although she is nice!)

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The 'dump' starts when levels fall below roughly 4.0 but she is correct, it isn't a 'dump' it is a process of converting several substances like fatty acids into glucose. It isn't instant and, even if it was, it takes an hour or so for everything to throughly mix in your blood. The biggest factor which determines when it starts is when you had your last meal. If you ate at 7pm, the build up might start at 2am, because that's when you were getting low but, if you ate at 10pm, it might start at 5am. A reading at 8am would give different results. That's why the standard fasting test should be done at 12 hours fasting.

It's still hit and miss though. You just get a general idea with these meters and it is the results over days and weeks that are important.

I get the same problem. The thing to remember is that the food in your gut is being processed all night and as you are asleep, you are not burning off the glucose. It seems logical to me that your BG should be higher in the morning.

I'm learning that the biggest thing to affect my dawn phenomenon (so far) is stress.
And that includes
background stress (goodness, I have a work deadline in 10 days)
Dreams (sex, nightmare or skydiving - thankfully not yet had all 3 at once)
Big event (setting off on hol, important presentation, going to fetch the puppy)
Infection (both tummy bug and virus amplified my BG highs)

I don't test during the night. However, my average rise and fall overnight is bang on 0.0. Sometimes there is a small rise and sometimes there is a small fall, but the average remains flat. I eat at 7pm and go to bed at about 11-30pm when I test. I then test as soon as I get up. (times vary) and then I eat breakfast within 20 minutes.

Yes ive tested through the night, deliberately so. Once or twice in the early days every hour. I too drop until 1am 2am then my levels rise steadily, peaking at 10-11am. I dont do breakfast, cant be bothered.

Its most annoying.

@Yorksman Im intrigued by this idea of liver fatty acids being metabolised. Is there any reference you can point me to on that please. Are you talking about gluconeogenesis or something additional?

gfmoore said:

@Yorksman Im intrigued by this idea of liver fatty acids being metabolised. Is there any reference you can point me to on that please. Are you talking about gluconeogenesis or something additional?

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There are several pathways but gluconeogenesis was the one I had in mind: "Gluconeogenesis is a metabolic pathway that results in the generation of glucose from non-carbohydrate carbon substrates such as pyruvate, lactate, glycerol, glucogenic amino acids, and fatty acids (both even-chain and odd-chain)."

Pyruvate is created from Glucose and involves a ten step enzymes, each resulting on one chemical or other. These are all stored and trigger subsequent metabolic reactions. I'm not a biochemist but it is a fascinating subject. Some of this also depends on which organ needs to be fueled. You might find this article interesting:

Each Organ Has a Unique Metabolic Profile

You'll see in #3 Adipose Tissue that your triacylglycerols a large amount of your fuel stores and these fatty acids are metabolised in the liver.